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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Whiskey Double on January 28, 2020, 06:47:24 PM

Title: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Whiskey Double on January 28, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
This is pointed towards Drydock and Rattlesnake but EVERYONE is welcome to join in . First of all I understand why everyone does it , but it's a SHAME they do !!!  I would love to put it back to .455
I need advice on loading .45 ACP for it, I'm thinking size with 45LC die 3.5 -4 gr Trail Boss with a Hornady 255gr swaged .454 lead bullet and use the rest of the 45ACP dies to finish loading. What do you think ? or should I get 265 hollow base bullets?

Thanks
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 28, 2020, 07:25:32 PM
I use unmodified Starline .45 Auto Rim brass.  I use the Lee .455 Webley MK II dies  https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011201072?pid=197309  along with a Lee .45 Auto Rim FCD for the final crimp.  I use this bullet  http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-262M-D.png  over 1cc of Trailboss,  This duplicates original ballistics. 

The .45 Auto rim is so close to Webley MK 1 Brass capacity as to make no difference, and is far easier to load for performance than the Shorter MK II case.  ALL Webley .455s have MK I chamber dimensions BTW.  The Brits never bothered to change them after going to the MK II cartridge.

I also had the chamber throats reamed out to .4525 to better match the barrel dimensions.  Most Webleys have undersized throats, usually .449 or so going into a .451/.452 bore.  Doing this eliminates  the need for hollowbase bullets for best accuracy.  This guy https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/  is great.  Your cylinder has already been modified, might as well finish it right.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 28, 2020, 07:38:56 PM
History Lesson:  The undersize chamber mouths were a deliberate design feature, to ensure enough chamber pressure to get a good burn going on the Cordite propellant used in the 1st Generation smokeless .455 cartridges.  Later nitrocelluse flake proprellants would not need this, but again, the Brits never bothered to change.  It still worked, and you never knew when an old batch of cordite might come thru the supply system.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Whiskey Double on January 28, 2020, 07:45:32 PM
Thanks Drydock

I'm not going to cast my own bullets, no desire to. I'm trying to use what Brownells has because of me cost with them as an RSO @ their range.   I have tons of ACP brass, but if 45 auto rim works better......do you use moon clips with your 45auto rim? 1cc of Trail Boss = how many grains?
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 28, 2020, 07:57:22 PM
When have used my Webley in Zoot I load in .45 acp brass with RIMZ full moon clips, works great.  I usually just load cast 230 LRNs for most shooting if I'm not worrying about duplicating factory ballistics.  For the 230 grain loads I like 4.0 grains of Red Dot.  All in the same dies as above, just a different shell plate.

Moon clips will not work with Auto Rim Brass.

1cc of TB is 4.5 grains.

If you're going to buy bullets, then I cannot recommend the cylinder hone enough.  You will get better performance, less leading, less concern for bullet hardness.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 28, 2020, 08:12:47 PM
Had to get my MK V out and fondle it.   Perhaps my favorite DA revolver.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Whiskey Double on January 28, 2020, 08:18:33 PM
I don't Facebook so I'm not sure how to look it up, did you have it done or did you do it yourself.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 28, 2020, 08:26:41 PM
I sent it off to Doug Phillips.  You can contact him thru the Cast Boolits forum if you don't facebook.  But any good smith should be able to do it.  Surely someone at Brownells knows someone?
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Tascosa Joe on January 28, 2020, 09:13:39 PM
Lately I have been loading some .455 MK IV to see if they would shoot in an SAA Colt.  they do!!
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 28, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
 I?ve used solid 200 gr .454 rnfp in my 45 lc and 45ar loads in my altered martial .455 revolvers forever. A few years ago I bought a 265 gr .455 pointy hollow base mould to cast bullets for my unaltered .455s. A little harder mould to work with but it makes purdy bullets that look correct with a correct Webley. Great guns.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 29, 2020, 01:07:10 AM
Yes: to clarify, .45 Auto Rim brass is made with a very thick rim which has the same effective thickness as the .45ACP brass in a moon clip - i.e. designed to be used "loose" in a revolver manufactured (or "shaved") for use with .45ACP and moon clips.

Using .45AR brass permits the revolver to be "properly" loaded with individual rounds, and is the only way to get the incredibly satisfying "flock extraction" of a break-top Webley revolver ...  ;D ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/400x448q90/924/bueCV4.jpg)

All of my various .455 revolvers are in original configuration, so I wouldn't dream of honing out the chamber mouths ... rather, I use the 265gr hollow base bullets of original shape that those tight throats were designed for ....

I would strongly recommend using .455 Webley dies to reload your brass, because after your brass (either .45ACP or .45AR) has been fired once in your Webley chamber, it will be fireformed to the more generous diameters of the Webley cartridge/chamber.  .455 dies will only size the brass back down to .455 specs ... .45 Colt and.45ACPdies will size it down to the slightly smaller diameters of those cartridges with every loading, but it will blow back out to the more generous Webley diameters with each firing, so you'll "overwork" your brass over time ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/391x778q90/924/8VjW3e.jpg)

Chuck will be better able to address this:  I don't know how GAF rules would treat the use of moon clips in actual competition with a Webley revolver ... at least in main-match events ... because they are certainly not "period correct" for a Webley and would in fact give an unfair (in my mind, at any rate) speed advantage over a similar revolver being loaded with loose cartridges.  As I recall, such "loading aids" are not permitted ... except perhaps in "Era of Expansion" side matches, where I have been permittted to use my period-correct Prideaux Loaders ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/398x508q90/922/ipGB79.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/511x778q90/924/CJXWNl.jpg)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Professor Marvel on January 29, 2020, 02:54:55 AM
My Good Whiskey -

since you are using .45 ACp or .45 Auto Rim, there is no need to limit yourself with Trailboss. It is a fluffy powder
that was designed to nearly fill .45 Colt cases. I also find it has somewhat higher initial  pressure than other powders like Unique,
making it actually harder on older guns, and is not as consistant , at least for me.

The smaller ACP or AutoRim cases will certainly prefer ( in my opinion) one of the old lower pressure standbys like Unique.

just my opinion, and it is worth what you paid for it.

yhs
prof marvel
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 29, 2020, 03:44:19 AM
The use of revolver loading aids is prohibited in the Victorian Main match, but allowed in Expansion Era.  Another reason I like to use AR brass.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Tascosa Joe on January 29, 2020, 07:29:37 AM
I am confused why do you not use .455 Webley Brass?
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK V
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 29, 2020, 07:44:24 AM
Shaved cylinder revolvers will not work with 455 as the brass has too thin of a rim. You have to use 45automatic in moon clips or 45 autorim to fill the space that was removed from the machining of the cylinder. A less destructive way of altering these 455 martial guns [if the cylinder is long enough] is to rebate the chambers for 45 lc which allows a 45lc case to chamber with about half of its rim thickness below the cylinder face. As you have not altered the cylinder face you can still use 455 because the 455 has a larger diameter case rim that then headspaces on the unaltered part of the cylinder and they will chamber and fire. The newish .45 Cowboy brass would work good too and look more correct than lc. Heres a rebated cylinder on my 455 smith.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Galen on January 29, 2020, 08:06:33 AM
partsforantiqueguns.com makes a cylinder plate for the .455 Webley cylinder, this plate allows you to fire .455 ammunition. Cost is $58.00 worth looking into. perhaps one of you firearm mechanics could come up with a permanent fix using one of these plates on a converted revolver.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 29, 2020, 08:38:34 AM
I also found this guy [too pricey] but 45 autorim is the best for these buggered up guns for range plinking while the moonclip is the way to use these guns in competition. I hunted and hunted and finally found a pair of uncut .455 cylinders years ago, one came from Apex and the other from South Africa. The blued? one fit, locks up and matched perfectly in my Mk IV. The other locks up perfectly in my W-W but the diameter is too small and the front cylinder stop won?t engage plus its a dull park finish not blued. In posting this I thought that I would try the parked .455 cylinder in my MkVI. I don?t know if I?ve ever tried it before. The MkVI?s shaved cylinder is so sloppy at full cock that the hammer hits the edge of the primer which is not good. I had stopped trying to shoot it because of this. I believe that the Webley cylinder notches wear out not the super hard pawl. Anyway lo and behold it fits and I have a pretty nice lockup, it?s not as tight as the WW was but is pretty tight. And the finishes match. I was planning on taking this cylinder to the Baltimore Antique Military show to sell but now I don?t think I will. Now I need to lighten the mainspring and get better grips as the ones on the gun have a slight warp and feel too thin for me.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 29, 2020, 05:13:41 PM
There are speedloaders for Auto Rim as well, makes a nice faux Prideaux. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015130497  I've come to prefer these really, it seems more historical than using full moons, at least for the Webley.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 29, 2020, 05:41:01 PM
I?ve got a few of those, they work but not as slick as dropping in a full moon clip.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on January 29, 2020, 05:54:52 PM
Really,  nothing slicker than this:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZnWx97HwD4
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK V
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 29, 2020, 08:29:59 PM
... A less destructive way of altering these 455 martial guns [if the cylinder is long enough] is to rebate the chambers for 45 lc which allows a 45lc case to chamber with about half of its rim thickness below the cylinder face. As you have not altered the cylinder face you can still use 455 because the 455 has a larger diameter case rim that then headspaces on the unaltered part of the cylinder and they will chamber and fire. The newish .45 Cowboy brass would work good too and look more correct than lc. Heres a rebated cylinder on my 455 smith.

I have a .455 Webley RIC revolver with rebated chambers of the sort Ed describes.  Quite some time ago I did up a very basic cross-sectional graphic to illustrate how the rebate accommodates part of the thickness of the  narrow, thick.45 Colt rim while the wider, thinner rim of .455 brass bridges the rebate and still rests against the original rear face of the cylinder, so either cartridge can be used -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x441q90/923/eMGk1j.jpg)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 29, 2020, 08:36:38 PM
The whole "kit" - Mark VI Webley revolver with Prideaux loading devices and Pritchard Greener bayonet -  ;D -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/781x725q90/923/DAmjde.jpg)

Bayonet fitted -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1250x627q90/924/qIFgdk.jpg)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 30, 2020, 08:29:45 AM
Watched your video Drydock, neat but after you have loaded your revolver are you really going to drop your expensive non disposable Prideaux loader on the ground? I doubt it, you?ve got to fumble around with putting it in a flap pouch or flap pocket while the guy with the moon clip is already firing his Webley. A little piece of flat stamped spring steel is disposable along with his mty brass and after dropping into the cylinder you?re done. But as a non military combat accessory it would certainly be a good thing to have in your over coat pocket as for an armed civilian with his trusty Webley.....Quick Watson, the game?s afoot!.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Pitspitr on January 30, 2020, 01:07:51 PM
The whole "kit" - Mark VI Webley revolver with Prideaux loading devices and Pritchard Greener bayonet -  ;D -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/781x725q90/923/DAmjde.jpg)

Bayonet fitted -

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1250x627q90/924/qIFgdk.jpg)
Looks like something Sherlock Holmes might have carried. Or maybe James Bond  ::)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Niederlander on January 30, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
Sorry, but moon clips aren't even actually correct in the Expansion era.  En bloc clips for the revolvers didn't come about until 1917.  Interestingly enough, the original design was actually a full moon clip, as you see now.  The Army felt they wanted only three rounds together, i.e. the half moon clip.

As far as dropping the speed loader on the ground, our brass pickers pick everything up as soon as it's safe to do so, so there really isn't any danger of losing one unless you drop them in really tall grass.

Doesn't Starline have .455 Webley brass now?  I'd do that on one of the rebated cylinders if I still had one.  I'd also ream the throats since the cylinder has been modified anyway.

As usual, all my advice is worth as much as I sell it for!
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on January 31, 2020, 01:15:08 AM
Yes, Starline produce the shorter .455 Webley Mark II cases -

https://www.starlinebrass.com/455-webley-mkii (https://www.starlinebrass.com/455-webley-mkii)

However, to the best of my knowledge, nobody presently produces the the original Mark I case length necessary to accommodate a full charge of black powder (nor has anyone done so in the recent past.)  I personally have quite a few Dominion Cartridge Company produced .455 Colt cases which I use for black powder loads. (The .455 Colt cartridge case was essentially the same as the .455 Webley Mark I, as was the .455 Eley cartridge - and, for that matter, was the same as the earlier Enfield cartridge case - ioriginally designated as a .455 calibre round although the final Mark III version of the Enfield cartidge used a heeled .476 calibre bullet.)  Indeed, as I often point out the Adams, Enfield and Webley cartridges were all actually .455, despite their somewhat confusing calibre designations ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x563q90/924/ViPL3R.jpg)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on January 31, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
As usual this thread is a wonderful history lesson thanks guys
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Whiskey Double on February 01, 2020, 07:29:02 PM
Thanks guys !! I've read and reread. A lot of info to process. Received my Mk VI today !!! Loaded 45 AR  4.5 gr. Trail Boss with 255 Hornady swaged , OAL .025 short of chambers . Shot a little bit right of POA but a nice 10 shot group. Loaded with AR dies . Waiting on 455 Webley dies for reloads. Thanks Again for all your help.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on February 07, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
http://rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/classics/webley/webley-mk-vi.html

A nice little article that tells you what that "6 Tons" stamp really means.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on March 29, 2020, 02:11:56 PM
Recently I picked up a Webley MK 1** (Another mislabeled item on GB I could not pass up) This is a former RN MK 1 revolver rebuilt to MK V standards in 1914, with a new cylinder, barrel and some updated internals.  And reproofed for smokeless loadings.  Unlike my other Webleys, this one is unaltered, so I needed proper brass for it.  Got 200 Starline 455 MK II cases from Midway before they closed down the pickup office. 

I decided to try Mike Beliveaus Blue Dot loads with my Accurate 262 grain bullet.  I cut back to 6.5 grains, in using a different bullet and not having a powder trickler.  And I am impressed with them.  Accurate, shot to sights, ran just under 650 out of the revolver, and VERY clean burning.  All signs show very mild pressure.  This is also a listed load in the Lee Red book.

This will be my go to heavy bullet powder in the Webleys for now on.   I'll transition to it in my .45 ARs once they've been shot up.  I'll continue with Red Dot in the lighter bullet loads.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on March 29, 2020, 03:15:07 PM
Sounds promising indeed, Chuck!

If you could get some Mark I brass (e.g. .455 Colt on the North American market) it would be a dandy revolver for full black powder loads ...   
You know ... get "period correct" ...  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/704x488q90/923/nnI9dn.jpg)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on March 29, 2020, 03:49:53 PM
Nice find Drydock.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on March 29, 2020, 04:53:22 PM
Oh how I wish someone would do Mk 1 Brass!  .45 Cowboy Special is SOOO damn close, just need to thin the rim a bit.  Hey, Starline, do this!

That is a lovely sight indeed, Grant. 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on March 30, 2020, 01:46:30 AM
Ironically, I have been in communication very recently with a chap up here in Alberta who got a die machined for him for use in an arbor press to swage the rims of .45 Cowboy cases thnner, for use in .455 revolvers. 

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/592x344q90/921/rnlUO6.jpg)

Amount by which the unswaged rim projects above the face of the die - (https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/592x344q90/921/HQX0lS.jpg)

In the press -
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/592x344q90/923/EV41Wy.jpg)

Comparison of unswaged rim (left) and swaged rim (right) -
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/592x344q90/922/CjouBX.jpg)

It was basiclly an experiment, but he reports that the modified cases fit in his two unshaved .455 revolvers just fine, and that they cycle without any binding. 

He only has a one ton press, and he says it is barely adequate, as he has to give the press handle a good smack after it has bottomed out mechanically, to get full compression.  Sounds like a two ton or better press would be ideal.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on March 30, 2020, 07:59:35 AM
Rattlesnake, none of your press photos are posting. Sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on March 30, 2020, 12:47:32 PM
Rattlesnake, none of your press photos are posting. Sounds interesting.
Don't know what is going on, lately ... those are links to the images on my ImageShack account, which have always shown up previously ...  :(

I hate using the forum "Attachment" feature because, as far as I can determine, there is no way to intersperse the images within the text, there is an annoying - and rather low - size limit on the files (meaning I usually have to go in and check that first, and often must reduce resolution substantially to be able to post an image), there is a limit of four attachments per post, and "Previewing" the post does not display the attachments... you have to actually post the entry before you can see if they "took" ...

Anyway, here they are ... hopefully ... and hopefully in the same order as the captions in my post above ...
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on March 30, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Note that in the last photo you can quite clearly see the amount of rim thickness reduction on the swaged case on the right, since the die leaves the rim at its original thickness below the extractor rebate for the full diameter of the case body.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on March 30, 2020, 03:06:07 PM
Neat idea, I love clever people, should enlarge the rim a little and complete the transformation from an ugly ducking to a British bulldog. I need to find someone at a shoot and buy a handful of those 45cowboy brass to ‘sperement with myself. Does it affect the case dimensions enough to interfere with the shell holder when reloading. I?ve had 45lc brass [same oddball headstamp] that were a too tight fit where everything else was fine, I gave them away at my last club match. 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on March 30, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Grant; Does your friend have any plans to offer such a die to the rest of us Webley owners?
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on March 30, 2020, 05:40:32 PM
He says that the rim diameter is increased enough that they no longer fit in a 45Colt/Cowboy shellholder, and he has to use the one he has for .455.  I asked him what happens to the headstamp (... distorts a bit, but still quite legible ...) and also if there is a problem with primer pocket depth after swaging (... he says he noticed no difference.)

He paid a machinist to make this die for him, so I don't think he has any plans to put it into production.  I'd have to confirm that with him, of course, but if he doesn't plan on it I could likely get the specs from him (and any suggested changes he might now have regarding the depth or diameter of the rim recess after working with this prototype) if someone else might want to start making them.

I found this whole excercise quite interesting, but I have hundreds of .455 Colt cases on hand (almost all Dominion Cartridge Company production) so I'm not really in the market myself.  Quite some time ago I had fifty modified .45 Colt cases (rims thinned and shortened to .455 Mk I length) but once I had an adequate supply of .455 Colt cases I just wasn't using them, to avoid them getting mixed in with my .455 Colt cases since they required different shell holders, and eventually gave them to somebody.  (Did the same with the cases from the only box of Fiocchi Mk II cartridges I ever had, since they took small primers and were sitting unused as well.)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on March 30, 2020, 07:02:36 PM
There was someone on the Cast Bullet forum that did the same thing, except he used a sledgehammer to apply force.  (no wild swings now, just a succession of heavy taps.)

FWIW, a Lee Krag Shellholder (#5)works just fine with Webley brass.  It is what Lee puts in the .455 die set.  Also the same shellholder in the .303 sets, go figger.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on April 03, 2020, 06:07:32 PM
FWIW, if you ever want to order a holster for your Webley, custom or off the shelf, specify a Ruger Redhawk.  Perfect fit, and no "whut?" from the maker.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: pony express on April 03, 2020, 06:39:09 PM

FWIW, a Lee Krag Shellholder (#5)works just fine with Webley brass.  It is what Lee puts in the .455 die set.  Also the same shellholder in the .303 sets, go figger.

I  use that Lee #5 shellholder for Schofield brass.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on April 04, 2020, 01:24:00 PM
I have 2x shaved, a MK V, & a New Service. Prefer the MK V, MK V NCOWS acceptable.
Brian
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 09, 2020, 09:12:25 PM
Just to resurrect an old thread for Major 2, but also to let Jack know I picked up some .455 Colt brass from Buffalo Arms, and have been happily loading it with Black Powder for the MK 1**.  Great fun!
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 10, 2020, 01:08:47 AM
Thanks Drydock  :D

I have scoured the net looking , can't believe I miss this thread right here at our own Cas City....
re-read it and recall I had seen it ( Rattlesnake Jacks fine illustrations jogged my memory )

I'm new to the fold though, reading all I can find.  I have Springfield Slims bullets , I ordered 45 Auto Rim ( I do have 1/2 moon clips too )
I'm just trying to nail down my Powder & charge ,  I have Trail Boss and Red Dot ...wanted to get some Unique but it is out of stock everywhere I tried... :(




Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on September 13, 2020, 02:48:05 PM
 My LGS/R has used me as an old gun expert to convince a young pup, in his 20's that his gunshow special was not a 44Mag,(like had been told) but a shaved Mk 6.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on September 13, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
For my shaved cylinders, I use 45 autorim with 200 gr lead bullet &. 3.9 gr Greendot. Very pleasant to shoot, very little recoil. Have 2x with shaved cylinders, a Wesley Mk5, & a Colt New Service.
Brian
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: DeaconKC on September 14, 2020, 11:57:19 AM
If I had the funds right now, I would be in on this, but maybe someone here would be interested:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878725781
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 14, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
That is very nice unaltered Webley.... I'm guessing it will bring well into  4 figures ...I'm watching  ;)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 14, 2020, 04:50:38 PM
For shooting, I'd keep an eye on this one: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878884187
 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 14, 2020, 04:53:16 PM
A shaved MK VI https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878158039

That went at a reasonable price in the current market.  Wonderful barrel on it.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 14, 2020, 04:55:47 PM
Here's a shaved MK 1 that the seller has no clue.  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879016748   I sent  him a note, bet I get a self righteous denial.  But it's easy to see in the  photo's, might scare off a lot of buyers.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 14, 2020, 06:48:33 PM
Here's a shaved MK 1 that the seller has no clue.  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879016748   I sent  him a note, bet I get a self righteous denial.  But it's easy to see in the  photo's, might scare off a lot of buyers.

Looks like the seller...took to your correction  :)   good on you

REVOVLER THAT HAS BEEN CONVERTED TO SHOOT .45 ACP WITH MOON CLIPS.

Information above was added on 9/14/2020 7:29:52 PM
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 14, 2020, 09:28:55 PM
Every once in a great while someone shows some sense.  Mk 1s are my favorite Webleys, very lucky to have the one I have.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 16, 2020, 09:47:45 AM
When using ACP brass these are the way to go:  https://www.ezmoonclip.com/page_4.htm
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on September 18, 2020, 08:55:40 PM
Started to inventory guns, day 2 came across a New Service in 45, with British proof marks. Need to take a closer look.
Brian
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 19, 2020, 05:38:54 AM
Started to inventory guns, day 2 came across a New Service in 45, with British proof marks. Need to take a closer look.
Brian

I imagine discovering a gun in your collection, you had forgotten you had is unique.
Almost, like acquiring it all over again.   :D




 
 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 26, 2020, 08:07:00 AM
If I had the funds right now, I would be in on this, but maybe someone here would be interested:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878725781

with a day and 1/2 left it is @ nearly $2000 I'll be watching I'm thinking it will go some higher.

While there I was alerted to these  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879628767

I've place my order
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on September 27, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
Been experimenting with my shaved cylinder using 45 Schofield & 45 Cowboy Special shaved to .455 length, have fired over 50 rounds smokeless without primer blowout, or any misfires. Today, tried 10 rounds of uncut Cowboy Special (same length as Autorim) with APP. Still no primer blackout or misfires. Also so tried my 1860 conversion with the 45 Cowboy Special, accuracy surprised me.
Brian 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on September 27, 2020, 05:50:46 PM
The shorter your case the more bullet jump you have to deal with in revolvers which usually is a bad thing but if your accuracy isn't affected that’s great. The .45 acp as a target loading is one of the most accurate cartridges out there. The .45 cowboy special should also be accurate. Shot all Schofield loads in my ‘73/‘76 winchester carbine, ASM Schofield revolver and 1860 conversion yesterday, 200gr RNFP in the rifle and 160 gr SWC in both revolvers. Clean for the first 3 stages but bad storms unfortunately ended the shoot. It did slack off enough to let us put our targets and gear away without anyone drowning.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 28, 2020, 02:01:38 AM
That is very nice unaltered Webley.... I'm guessing it will bring well into  4 figures ...I'm watching  ;)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878725781

Final drop of the gavel  $2,126.00 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 28, 2020, 03:02:42 PM
Here's a shaved MK 1 that the seller has no clue.  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879016748   I sent  him a note, bet I get a self righteous denial.  But it's easy to see in the  photo's, might scare off a lot of buyers.

The one above sold for $1380

this re-blued one had sold @ $916.... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878884187

but now  https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/879973026    the buyer must have not followed through it has been relisted. 
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 28, 2020, 03:27:00 PM
Curious: why do you think it's been refinished?
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 28, 2020, 03:34:43 PM
the bluing is in all the stamped marks  nor does there appear to be any raised metal ...

Just an observation  :-\ I could be wrong
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Drydock on September 28, 2020, 07:39:39 PM
OK, but no, that's the way the W&S finished them,  especially the pre ww1 .455s.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 29, 2020, 06:13:06 AM
I keep learning...thanks  :)
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Baltimore Ed on September 29, 2020, 10:11:13 AM
Theres been some kind of refinishing at least on the cylinder because the rear of the cylinder would be bright naked steel after machining it off. The rest of the gun looks original to me.
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 29, 2020, 03:44:36 PM
I had seen that ....  :-\
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on September 30, 2020, 01:19:25 PM
Just place another order for 45 Auto Rim ....Graf's is now out
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on October 01, 2020, 01:48:26 PM
Turns out I have 3x Shaved cylinders, a Mk5 & 2x New Service. May try 1 of the New Service weekend.
Brian
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Major 2 on October 04, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
Update on my Webley adventure  :)

It took 12 days for Graf's to get the 45 AR Starline brass shipped   ::),  and 4 days to arrive after that  , but it did arrive.
( just an observation , not really a complaint , but that said additional brass is in route from Buffalo Arms and will arrive within the first week )

In the mean time my Chronograph arrived and I set about to work up my load...

I have also purchased Bear Creek Supply   .454  260 grain hollow base Webley bullets (see photos) BTW 2 days shipping  ;D

I'm impressed with the consistency and quality of Bear Creek's product  ( moly coated bullets )

They are  .80 thou shorter than Springfield Slim cast bullets , set at the same depth it makes the OAL of the final bullet .80 shorter
than the SS bullet when it is crimped at original .455 cartridge OAL

Note: the point of crimp <---- in 3rd & 4th. photos  However the shape is blunter

Powder is the same weight of Trail Boss

Slims bullets chronograph average -  662 FPS
The Bear Creek - 626 FPS      ( which I allude to the slicker moly coat )


Springfield Slim also ships fast ...2 days ( I also like the historic shape of his bullets )
FYI  SS bullets are  .452  @  262 grains  ( recovered bullets show they bump to .454 and engage rifling nicely )

* all shots at 7 yards with the chrono at  10ft out from the muzzle
Title: Re: Shaved .455 Webley MK VI
Post by: Dusty Tagalon on October 04, 2020, 11:31:20 PM
I have been experimenting with shaved cylinders. My Mk5 with 45 Cowboy Special, OK. My Colt New Service, failed. 1st Stage with 45 Cowboy Special BP failed, primer blowout/lockup. Stage 2, shift to autorim smokeless, squib, even after driving bullet back into cylinder, primer blowout signafant enough, gun is no longer functional! 
Brian