Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L

Special Interests - Groups & Societies => 1860 Henry => Topic started by: kcub on April 18, 2010, 06:35:11 AM

Title: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: kcub on April 18, 2010, 06:35:11 AM
what steps do you take

how lazy can you be with black powder without causing damage or functional problems?

does caliber enter into the answer
(straight v. bottleneck)
(shorter alternatives such as .44 Russian or.45 Schofield)
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Coffinmaker on April 18, 2010, 08:59:11 AM

Black Powder in and of itself isn't very corrosive.  the residue is hydroscopic though, and will attract and trap moisture.  The BP Subs are more corrosive chemically and must be removed toot sweet.
With straight wall cases, BP fouling will cause the rifle to get stiff and begin to cause the Carrier Block to hang up fairly quickly.  Any straight wall case.  You'll have to clean every match.
Bottle neck cases don't have the "blow by" problems the straight wall cases do.  They seal much better.  A Caveat though,
the residue from BP Subs must be removed from brass rifles immediately.  The residue from the Subs will also attack steel very quickly.
Hot soapy water for clean-up has been the favorite for ever.  If you must use a custom mix, equal parts of Murphy's oil Soap, Hydrogen peroxide and Alcohol is simple and very effective.

Coffinmaker
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Will Ketchum on April 18, 2010, 11:33:14 AM
Personally I have had problems with Hydrogen peroxide.  It is an oxidizer and can cause nearly immediate rust if not oiled right away.  I once was using a mix with it and was interrupted by a family emergency by the time I got back, just a couple of hours I had rust growing out of my Henry.  Cleaned up fairly well but have never used it since.

I use some type of plug in the chamber (usually just a spent cartridge case) while cleaning the bore to keep the gunk out of the receiver area.  Montana Slim is the expert on cleaning BP guns.  I hope he joins in.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Dusty Morningwood on April 18, 2010, 12:23:35 PM
Since I started shooting CAS I use Moose Milk (1 part Ballistol 7parts water) to clean and lube revolvers and lever guns.  Keeps them running and rust-free, along with some heavy grease on the cylinder pins, between shoots.  But for my single shot cartridge rifles I have been using patches soaked in windshield washer fluid (pre-diluted).  Cleans out the bores nice and shiney and then a little Bore Butter to lube.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Grizzly Adams on April 18, 2010, 07:28:47 PM
Ask this question of 100 BP shooters and you will get 125 answers, and a crash course in chemical engineering! ;D

Here's mine!  The method I  use is pretty quick and simple, and I have never had one speck of rust or failure of any kind.  Open the action, push carrier to the bottom.  Place rifle upside down in a vise or across the arms of a chair.  Saturate a patch with Windex with vinegar (not ammonia.)  Use a good stainless steel rod with a proper size jag, and run the wet patch through the bore.  The dirty patches and any moisture drops down and out of the action.  Usually takes only 3 or 4 to do the job.  Dry the bore with a couple of patches and then lube same with ballistol.  Turn rifle up right and wipe down the carrier with a moist cloth and Windex.  (If you have a 45LC your going to spend more time on this part! :-\) 

Put rifle away, grab a cold one, and pick a few tunes on your banjo! ;D  You do have a banjo don't you? ;)

Now if you can't find the Windex with vinegar, tap water will do!

 
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Montana Slim on April 18, 2010, 10:05:54 PM
Personally I have had problems with Hydrogen peroxide.  It is an oxidizer and can cause nearly immediate rust if not oiled right away.  I once was using a mix with it and was interrupted by a family emergency by the time I got back, just a couple of hours I had rust growing out of my Henry.  Cleaned up fairly well but have never used it since.

I use some type of plug in the chamber (usually just a spent cartridge case) while cleaning the bore to keep the gunk out of the receiver area.  Montana Slim is the expert on cleaning BP guns.  I hope he joins in.

Will Ketchum

That about explains it..... briefly, here is what I do:

At the end of the day, I insert an empty case from the day's shooting. Then run 3-5 damp patches (I use windshield solvent) down the bore. I use a rod with  a muzzle protector and a .44 jag on the nd (44-40 rifles/carbines). The case captures most, if not all, of any liquid that would otherwise run into the action. You'll need to verify that your jag and patch thickness allows you to NOT stick your jag in the case....and/or you'll need to develop a "feel" for how far to run it down the bore. I've never had a big issue with this..maybe I'm just lucky. When the patches look reasonably clean, eject the case (carefully, in case it's retaining liquid)...then close the action and run a dry patch down the bore. Follow with your favorite lube. I use the lube patch to wipe the breech & bolt-face, too...done.
Takes longer to describe than to "do".

I used the same technique years ago when I shot a Rossi 1892, .38 spl & BP loads. Cleaning method worked well on it, too.

Regards,
Slim
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on April 30, 2010, 05:41:50 PM
Quote
Personally I have had problems with Hydrogen peroxide.  It is an oxidizer and can cause nearly immediate rust if not oiled right away.  I once was using a mix with it and was interrupted by a family emergency by the time I got back, just a couple of hours I had rust growing out of my Henry.  Cleaned up fairly well but have never used it since.

Howdy

I suspect something other than the Hydrogen Per Oxide caused your rust problem. Drugstore H2O2 is only about 3% H2O2, the rest is water. When you mix it up in equal parts with oil soap and alcohol, the concentration goes down to 1%. Hardly enough oxidizer to rust anything. As a test, a few years ago I took a piece of low carbon steel and painted it with Murphy's Mix, and let it sit in my basement until the Murphy's Mix completely evaporated. Took a couple of days. When the Mix had totally evaporated only an oily film was left. There was no rust. H2O2 gets a bad name because in highly concentrated form it can be used as rocket fuel. But the drugstore variety is pretty harmless.

As far as cleaning is concerned, I use the same method that Montana Slim does, with an empty case in the chamber to keep the gucky fouling out of the action. The only difference is I use the slotted end of my cleaning rod, to hold a patch, not a jag. The slotted end is narrow enough that I can run it all the way into an empty 44-40 case and it will not jam as a jag might. Makes it simpler, no need to carefully keep track of how deep I have gone.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Buck Stinson on April 30, 2010, 07:42:56 PM
I use the same method as Grizzly Adams except for the Windex.  I use mild detergent in warm water.  I use white vinegar to clean BP cases.  If you turn the gun upside down in a gun cradle, with the action open and the lever pointing to the sky, you won't find in necessary to use the empty case in the chamber.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Montana Slim on April 30, 2010, 08:39:38 PM
Well, I will add back in the "day" we didn't have easy chairs or gun cradles...least out in the field  ;D

The ups/down method works "ok" most of the time....been there & done that...anything less than complete attention will result in a splash to the innards or at least the carrier...which can run into the action or elsewhere once the piece is "righted".

"gun cleaning specialist" - I came by this title honestly...by making lots of mistakes :D


Jest funin' ya,
Slim
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Buck Stinson on May 01, 2010, 09:28:57 AM
When I started cleaning black powder out of Winchesters 45 years ago, I never thought about using an easy chair.  Learn something new everyday.   I agree that in the field on day shoots, the cradle isn't the most practical tool to carry along.  However, even 32 years ago, when we started shooting long range BP cartridge here in Montana, many of these shoots would last a full week and everyone took a cleaning cradle along as standard equipment.    We shot every type of vintage single shot rifle and big bore Winchester you could think of.  You don't have to clean BP rifles many times, before you find easier, cleaner ways to do it.  I also learned that when cleaning a lever action in the upside down position, you clean and wipe the bore first.  This way, it is impossible to get any liquid residue in the action once the gun is righted.  Then once the gun is righted, it's easy to clean out what little fowling is in the action.  If you have fairly tight headspace on any rifle, there should be very minimal cleaning necessary in the action.  JMHO
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on May 01, 2010, 02:15:23 PM
Quote
If you turn the gun upside down in a gun cradle, with the action open and the lever pointing to the sky, you won't find in necessary to use the empty case in the chamber.

If you use the empty case in the chamber you don't need the cradle. One less thing to drag along to a match, and we all have empty cases at the end of a match. Just stand it up in your cart. Or lean it against your car. What ever works.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: kcub on May 02, 2010, 09:19:05 AM
On another forum I heard about a guy who swabs his revolver barrel and cylinder with plain old baby wipes after black powder which sounds very convenient.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Montana Slim on May 02, 2010, 10:07:25 PM
On another forum I heard about a guy who swabs his revolver barrel and cylinder with plain old baby wipes after black powder which sounds very convenient.

I use baby wipes for cleaning the frame, hammer, etc of my percussian revolvers....& Toilettee-paper for my shotgun  ;D

Use what works for you!
Slim
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Fingers McGee on May 02, 2010, 10:39:32 PM
I had the same problem that Will Ketchum had, only with a batch of Murphy mix and some revolver nipples.  2 hours soak turned them into little balls of rust.  Have never used Hydrogen peroxide or Murphy's mix on anything since.

Ask this question of 100 BP shooters and you will get 125 answers, and a crash course in chemical engineering! ;D

Here's mine!  The method I  use is pretty quick and simple, and I have never had one speck of rust or failure of any kind.  Open the action, push carrier to the bottom.  Place rifle upside down in a vise or across the arms of a chair.  Saturate a patch with Windex with vinegar (not ammonia.)  Use a good stainless steel rod with a proper size jag, and run the wet patch through the bore.  The dirty patches and any moisture drops down and out of the action.  Usually takes only 3 or 4 to do the job.  Dry the bore with a couple of patches and then lube same with ballistol.  Turn rifle up right and wipe down the carrier with a moist cloth and Windex.  (If you have a 45LC your going to spend more time on this part! :-\)  

Put rifle away, grab a cold one, and pick a few tunes on your banjo! ;D  You do have a banjo don't you? ;)

Now if you can't find the Windex with vinegar, tap water will do!
+1 to Grizzley Adams procedure with the exception that I use Birchwood Casey No. 77 Muzzle Magic BP cleaner.   Have used it ever since the H202 debacle.  After cleaning out all of the fouling, lubing with straight Balsiton finishes the job.

FM
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Drydock on May 09, 2010, 11:10:54 AM
With my Henry, .44-40, Goex 3f, Lee 2 groove bullet, 50/50 Crisco/beeswax lube:

-wipe it off and take it home.  Have a beer, go to bed.  Got to work the next day.  After work, get the Henry out to be cleaned.
Letting it set overnight lets the fouling absorb just enough moisture to be nice and soft.  With a well shot in rifle you can wait several days if you want.  Just me, but I don't like the case in the chamber method.  I want the chamber to get the same treatment as the rest of the barrel.

-With the rifle upside down over the sink, action open but elevator still down, soak a patch in tap water and run thru the bore.  Flip the patch and run it thru again.  Repeat with a dry patch.  Repeat with a patch soaked in Ballistol.

(The patch does not need to come out white .  That would be removing the nice oily grease.  Yer not trying to remove copper fouling here)

-Soak a few q-tips with Ballistol and work around the elevator.  Dribble a few drops into the action  here and there.  Dribble a few drops into the magazine slot and work the follower up and down a few times to spread it around.  Wipe the whole thing down again with an old greasy rag and put away.

-Every couple of years or so, take it apart and inspect.  No rust yet after nearly 15 years.  Do the revolvers much the same.  Shotgun is a hose down the barrels, paper towel wads, and a shot of spray Ballistol.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Montana Slim on May 10, 2010, 08:58:14 AM
I used to use the same Lee bullet.....unless you have 100% humidity or wet-swab the bore every other stage, it will foul-out and cause accuracy issues....been there myself  ;)

After I remove the case, the chamber is fully cleaned with a dry patch, then an oiled patch (action closed). With MY 44-40 loads, the carrier and areas other than the bore need nothing more than an oily patch wipe-down. My rifle & shotgun cleanup is completed while loading gear back into the car & takes an extra 10-15 minutes total  ;D

Pushing a wet, sloppy-dirty patch down the barrel and out the chamber....whether it is right-side, down-side or ups-down or backwards will slop something into the receiver/carrrier or worse....guaranteed.......and, cleaning my rifle over a sink (at my home) would be a great way to get Mrs. Slim excited...but not in a good way  :o

I have to say this has been an interesting thread  :D

Regards,
Slim
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Drydock on May 10, 2010, 05:59:39 PM
Never had a fouling problem with that bullet.  Shoot all weekend without cleaning, nothing more than a breath now and then down the barrel, no fall off in accuracy.  Course, after 15 years of nothing but BP, that barrel's pretty slick.   ;D
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Montana Slim on May 11, 2010, 05:33:43 PM
Never had a fouling problem with that bullet.  Shoot all weekend without cleaning, nothing more than a breath now and then down the barrel, no fall off in accuracy.  Course, after 15 years of nothing but BP, that barrel's pretty slick.   ;D

I've only pumped about 20,000 rounds (Nearly all BP as well) through my 1866 rifle....smoothness of the bore won't help BP fouling...and at a point, decreases accuracy (starting with clean barrel, of course). A carbine (19-20") will have fewer issues with foul-out than a rifle (24") and a longer (30") barrel will be more prone to foul-out. Less powder = less fouling as well. It is possible that breathing through the bore would add moisture & help, but would take a LOT of puffing to negate the fouling of typical 10-shot stages.

My only major problem with the Lee Bullet was one year at the NCOWS National match....I skipped swapping the bore (rod was in the car)...my posse was surprised that I missed ALL the rifle targets (I'm often "clean")...more test firing revealed more of a "pattern" rather than a group. BTW, Our rifle targets were/are generally up to twice as far as you see in a typical SASS match and usually not as big...so, YMMV.

Oh, I switched to the big-lube bullet & no difficulties since....carrying the rod is now for convenient cleanup after the shooting is done.

Best,
Slim
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Will Ketchum on May 11, 2010, 05:56:28 PM
I've only pumped about 20,000 rounds (Nearly all BP as well) through my 1866 rifle....smoothness of the bore won't help BP fouling...and at a point, decreases accuracy (starting with clean barrel, of course). A carbine (19-20") will have fewer issues with foul-out than a rifle (24") and a longer (30") barrel will be more prone to foul-out. Less powder = less fouling as well. It is possible that breathing through the bore would add moisture & help, but would take a LOT of puffing to negate the fouling of typical 10-shot stages.

My only major problem with the Lee Bullet was one year at the NCOWS National match....I skipped swapping the bore (rod was in the car)...my posse was surprised that I missed ALL the rifle targets (I'm often "clean")...more test firing revealed more of a "pattern" rather than a group. BTW, Our rifle targets were/are generally up to twice as far as you see in a typical SASS match and usually not as big...so, YMMV.

Oh, I switched to the big-lube bullet & no difficulties since....carrying the rod is now for convenient cleanup after the shooting is done.

Best,
Slim

I remember that well.  I think I was scoring for you.  I remember when we checked out your "group"  It couldn't have been covered by a pie plate :o.  I often think about that time when ever people talk about bores getting fouled out.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Drydock on May 12, 2010, 11:31:43 AM
It all works, and we take ourselves entirely too seriously.  Just have fun folks, and find out what works for you!
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Books OToole on May 12, 2010, 01:58:16 PM
Sometimes it is amazing how little can foul a barrel.  Recently at the James Farms shoot, Trap's Remington wouldn't pop a primer.  So he borrowed mine.  Well when I miss it is nothing special; but when Trap misses, it is.  So we ran a couple patches through the barrel.  On the final stage, I put six rounds in the ace of spades.

From now on, I will run a patch through at the begining of a match.

Books
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Springfield Slim on August 13, 2010, 10:17:08 AM
I take a pitcher of warm water and Murphy's oil soap, about 10% worth, and pour it down the barrel rear to front.  . I then run a wetted bore snake down the barrel. Usually the barrel is now clean. I then run an oiled with Break-free patch down the barrel and the barrel is done. I then wipe down the rest of the gun with Break-free. I shoot 44-40 with real BP and this works fine. When I shoot my 45 Colt rifle I have to spend more time cleaning the carrier.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Major 2 on August 15, 2010, 06:24:06 AM
Felt this thread was worthy of a sticky  :)
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: buckskin billy on August 15, 2010, 09:23:59 AM
lot of great info here pards. more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to clean a black powder gun.
 i had the same problem with the peroxide only use that for bobos now.
my tried and true method is after i'm done shooting as soon as i can get to my cleaning rod, i run a patch of bore butter down the barrel and let it sit over night. the next day i run a couple of patches with warm water down the barrel. i have a bristle brush on a short flexible handle that i scrub the chamber out with. dry barrel  run a patch of lube down the barrel wipe down the action and lube it, then i'm picking out tunes on my old guitar( i have no banjo) the hole process is about 10 minuets, unless my guitart is out of tune ;)
   
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: PJ Hardtack on June 28, 2011, 02:33:57 PM
Last Sunday I shot BP in my 44-40 Henry for the first time - loved it! Same for my 44-40 '66.

Many of us shoot cap & ball at our monthly CAS match in memory of the founder of the game at our club. Shootin' smokeless with cap & ball pistols just didn't compute so ..... I'll never look back.

Clean up was dead simple - one pass with a 44/45 Bore Snake using my BPCR cleaning solution, a drying and an oiling - DONE!
Of course, the brass is another tale. I decap at the range, drop in a jug of soapy water and use a bore brush at home. Dry & tumble - done.

Compared to the process of cleaning a brace of cap & baller pistols, it's a joy.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Wagon Box Willy on June 30, 2011, 09:46:21 PM
I've so far just been shootin' in the back yard so I have a lot of cleaning options available to me.

I have been starting with Driftwood Johnson's empty in the chamber and push a windex soaked patch down on a loop.  I'm shootin' GOEX fffg and JP 200's so there's plenty of soot to clean up.  It usually takes me 3 or 4 patches to get it clean-ish.

Then I soak the forend of a Boresnake with Windex and pull it through a couple of times and I'm satisfied it's clean.

Then a couple of times through with a mop soaked in EEzox and I'm done....with the barrel :)

I just ordered some .454 PRS 250gr boolits from Slim so we'll see how that works on the carrier area.

Willy
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: PJ Hardtack on December 22, 2011, 11:53:18 AM
BTW - the term for the propensity of BP fouling to draw moisture out of the air is 'hygroscopic', not hydroscopic, which pertains to the use of a hydroscope for underwater viewing.

How's that fer pickin' fly s--t outta pepper .... ?  ;>)
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Dakota Widowmaker on December 31, 2011, 10:52:48 AM
I tend to do the same as much as anyone here.

On my 1860 Uberti Henry, I clean the bore with 1:10 moose milk run through the bore. I will follow up with cleaning patches and finally lube/protect it with Kroil.

For the visible action, I'll squit it with Rem Powerder solvent and then lube with RemOil from a spray can.

I'll take apart the end of the magazine and make sure its not starting to collect dust/dirt/powder nonsense.

At the end of the season (for me ... I only shoot May-October) I'll take off the side plates and clean out all the inner workings. I do this once a year as its kind of a big operation for me and I like to get in there and get it all smoothed up.

I'll also polish the brass once a year just to make myself feel better about my rifle.  ;D

I have found LESS fouling in the action when using Winchester 44-40 brass vs Starline. Also, the more powder/compression I use, the LESS fouling I get.

I have been using the Mav-Dutchman bullet ever since I got my Henry.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on December 31, 2011, 01:23:43 PM
I've so far just been shootin' in the back yard so I have a lot of cleaning options available to me.

I have been starting with Driftwood Johnson's empty in the chamber and push a windex soaked patch down on a loop.  I'm shootin' GOEX fffg and JP 200's so there's plenty of soot to clean up.  It usually takes me 3 or 4 patches to get it clean-ish.

Then I soak the forend of a Boresnake with Windex and pull it through a couple of times and I'm satisfied it's clean.

Then a couple of times through with a mop soaked in EEzox and I'm done....with the barrel :)

I just ordered some .454 PRS 250gr boolits from Slim so we'll see how that works on the carrier area.

Willy


WBB, and all y'all others - Howdy!

I'm afraid the BigLube boolits - as sold by Springfield Spring, who also happens to be MY supplier, won't help the residue issue on the follower.  The extra lube carried by those excellent boolits helps primarily in the bore.  I - we still have a load of gunk to clean off the carrier.  This comes primarily from the blowback - which happens in EVERY round you can shoot.  The type of case and the load itself will regulate this, however.  44-40 shooters enjoy less blowback than most straight-walled shooters because the mouth of the case is thinner than others.  Shooting full-powered loads will help the brass expand and seal the chamber better than lite loads.  There are many different factors that effect the amount of blowback, and I certainly don't know all of them.

What I have found interesting in this thread and the many ways others clean their rifles.  There's a lot of good info here and a LOT of experience is shown.  I have also found one common ingredient in the cleaning formula ... water.  ALL the successful "recipes" for favorite cleaning solutions include a lot of water in some formula or another.  Murphys includes Hyd. Per.- which is 97% water.  Windex contains mostly water.  (and the NO ammonia warning is a good one, by the way)  MooseMilk = 1 part Ballistol and anything from 4 to 10 parts water. 

OK - I'll quit - but you see what I mean?  Water is what is needed to neutralize the hygroscopic residue which comes after firing.  I personally like the wetted boresnake as Slim mentioned, but you need to wash those boresnakes periodically or you'll be dragging a dirty, gritty apparatus through the barrel of your firearm.  I have one of those mesh bags sold for washing ladies dainty unmentionables and every so often I throw all my boresnakes (I have about a dozen - or more) in the bag and then into the washing machine.  I use a lot of soap and wash this either by itself or with any oily rags I clean my guns with, and make sure they rinse well.  DON'T wash anything delicate with the bag of BoreSnakes or "the Boss" won't be happy at all!

Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Pappy Myles on July 23, 2012, 08:30:51 AM
Anyone use Hoppes Black powder solvent?    I've read a bunch of post on cleaning up with windex (vinigar) hot soap and water, murphy's oil soap , simple green, and a bunch of other concauxions.

Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on July 25, 2012, 04:40:22 AM
Anyone use Hoppes Black powder solvent?    I've read a bunch of post on cleaning up with windex (vinigar) hot soap and water, murphy's oil soap , simple green, and a bunch of other concauxions.



Howdy, Pap!

I have been a happy user of Hoppes #9 Plus BP Cleaner since I bought my first C&B BP gun in 1975.  I actually prefer it in one respect over a Moosemilk/Ballistol mix.  In my experience, a good mix (I like a 6 or 7 to 1 mix of water to Ballistol) of Moosemilk does the job of cleaning & preserving very well as does the Hoppes product.  However ... to ME, Ballistol stinks and does so from the moment you open the bottle.  I have used it enough that I'm immune to the "stink" but my family IMMEDIATELY begin good-natured belly-aching whenever I get out the Moosemilk & pure Ballistol to clean my firearms, but they have NEVER complained about the Hoppes #9 Plus product.  Until the Hoppes meets the BP residue, that is.  THEN the Hoppes stinks just about as bad as Moosemilk, but it IS a different smell.  Or stink.

But I do like and trust the Hoppes.  It's just that it does cost a bit more plus, at the places I do business, Ballistol (to make my Moosemilk concoction) is readily available, while the #9 Plus is seldom in stock.  Since you can add water in various amounts to Ballistol, it becomes pretty economical.  I'm still on my 1st quart jar of Ballistol that I bought in 2005.  A little goes a pretty long way.

But it stinks.  So does the Hoppes when it contacts BP residue, but at least I don't mind the smell of the Hoppes right out of the bottle.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Wagon Box Willy on August 25, 2012, 10:52:06 PM
After hearing that annealing cases helps with fouling I annealed a match worth of 45 Colt cases and filled them with 2f KIK under Big Lube JP200.  Well, for the first time this year I was able to shoot an entire 6 stage match with my Uberti 1866 with very little fouling and no cleaning at stage 3 like I've had to do in the past.

The carrier was a bit dirty but nothing like it has been in the past and nothing that impeded it's free movement.  I'm going to anneal up some more and see if it also helps with the head space fouling I get on my 1875 Remmy's.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: pony express on March 16, 2013, 03:12:35 PM
I annealed some, but haven't tried them out yet. Got the idea from SOMEWHERE on the net. Start with deprimed brass, find(or grind) some kind of screwdriver/torx/allen head bit for a cordless drill so that it will fit fairly well in the primer hole. Set the propane torch on the workbench, place a case on the drill bit, with drill turning slow-medium speed, hold the mouth of the case while turning in the flame, then just tilt drill over a pan of water and drop it in. Have to experiment just how long to hold it in the flame. I hold it so about the top 1/3 of the case is in the direct flame, start with about 5 seconds or so, you should be able to find an ammount of time that will sufficiently anneal the case, but not get the case HEAD too hot. Don't try to get the case red, that's not needed. It will change to a slightly "golden" color.. Cas head may get pretty warm to the fingers, but not hot enough to burn, if it's that hot it may soften the head too much.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: .56/50 Iron on June 14, 2014, 01:44:03 PM
I think I read all these responses and did not see anything for cleaning the .45 Colt caliber Henry. If blackpowder fouling does reach the action, is it necessary to strip down the action to clean it? I don't think the drilled and tapped screw holes in the brass metal are going to last for long if you take the action apart a lot...as in cleaning the action each time. I shoot blackpowder .45/70's in Sharps and Remington rollingblock rifles and don't get much fouling in the actions, if any. Would this be true for the .45 Colt in the Model 1860 rifles? Thanks again!
.56/50 Iron
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Wagon Box Willy on June 14, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
First, let me say that after more than a year the annealed 45 colts make a huge difference in the amount of BP fouling in the carrier area.

As to BP fouling in the linkage.  I've never needed to remove the side plates to clean BP fouling in the action of either my '60 or '66.  I do remove them on occasion to clean out the residue from my Moose Milk, Windex etc and to re lube everything.

I've been in there more than I'd like with my '60 for other reasons and really don't worry about the screws. just be careful.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Abilene on June 14, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
Howdy again 56/50 Iron.  In my straight-walled caliber toggle llink rifles (.357 and .45LC '73s and 44 Spcl '66) I shoot BP and rarely take the side plates off.  The lube I spray into the carrier area after cleaning gets inside the action and neutralizes any BP residue in there.  When I do finally get around to taking them apart, it is pretty gunky inside but no rust.  I'm too lazy to anneal cases  :)

Naturally I do prefer my 32-20 and 44-40 rifles for BP since cleaning the carrier area is so quick and easy.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Short Knife Johnson on October 06, 2014, 08:34:59 PM
My own personal way of cleaning my '73 in .44 is to get one of those Remington bore squeegees and plug the chamber end.  Fish the thread with a carbon fibre rod.  Spray in straight Windex with Vinegar and let stand for a few.  Place rifle in cradle, and pull rod out in one motion with a sidestep to the avoid black mess.   Repeat 3 or 4 times, then swab with patches.

I've used this to clean Trapdoors, Martinis, and all of my lever guns.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on February 17, 2015, 05:25:55 PM
Griz has the right idea. But I use a Bore Snake threaded and started in the breech then I squirt some moose milk down the muzzle then pull the snake through.
That way all the fouling is pulled to the muzzle end not into the action. Two passes with the snake and a swab wet with Ballistol and cleaning is a done deal.
The lifter is easily cleaned with a Q tip and moose milk or solvent.  It stays very clean by using .44-40 brass fire formed to .452 and using some of  DDs 210 grain bullets.

My 1860 is an iron frame model so I don’t have brass to clean. Love that gun it is my favorite.  Looks good and shoots perfectly, hits on Cody/Dixon targets at 100 yards clink very nicely.

Hold Center
Respectfully submitted
Bunk
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: tommy4toes on April 04, 2015, 05:15:48 PM
I've shot BP and subs for years, and I just only recently was told this....... Windex!!!!

I haven't tried it with my match rifles yet, but it loosened up plastic wad fouling in my shotgun - looked like spaghetti coming out of the muzzle!!!!


Tommy4toes
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on April 04, 2015, 07:19:52 PM
When I was muzzleloading in the winter, I used winter formula windsheild washer fluid as a substitute for saliva-spit-patch. Windex would not be a surprise. Some use it for BP case cleanup, but I found other thing better.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 04, 2015, 07:22:16 PM
Been using the off brand window cleaner from Kroger for a couple years now.

Couple squirts down the barrel, brush and a couple clean patches followed by a couple patches with ballistol...Done.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: John William McCandles on April 27, 2015, 04:02:17 AM
I always use hot soapy water and paper towel patches, run wet patches down barrel until they come out clean, then a dry one. Clean action then run a mop with ballistol down the barrel.
Always use a gun vise/ rest and turn the rifle over so the residue runs out and not into the action.
Take it all the way down once a year for a good cleaning of the action.


JW
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: griswold on June 28, 2015, 08:11:25 PM
When I shoot my replica Griswold with BP and after returning home, I put a large pan on the stove with water and dish liquid. (doesn't matter I guess but I use Dawn).......get it up to boil, pull the nipples, the lever and dump the cylinder, nipples, barrel and lever into the pan. After 10-15 minutes all the gunk is floating on the sudsy surface and I (using big kitchen tweezers) remove the big parts and lay them on a towel. The lever screws and nipples are fished out with a spoon.The metal is hot and boils the moisture away leaving a clean surface. A little oiling and I'm done with that.
I oil while the metal is still warm and it tends to get soaked up into the steel a tad.

Wipe excess oil off, wipe the frame down with an oily rag and reassemble.

Been doing this since I bought the thing in 1970. Boiling turns the blue to grey and gives it a certain old look. Not recommended for those who wish to keep the shiny blue new look.
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: tommy4toes on September 30, 2015, 07:48:27 PM
Dawn & hot hot hot water.....I use a rubber #2 test tube stopper in the chamber and fill the barrel. Let it sit awhile, then empty it out. One pass with a Bore Snake(more hot soapy), then patch dry and swab with a mop & CLP BreakFree. Cases get de-capped in a milk jug with hot soapy at the range.

The old timey buff shooters swore by urine......

t4t
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: tommy4toes on September 30, 2015, 07:51:03 PM
and the action gets the same with a toothbrush eventually - I usually do a full teardown & relube after shooting BP.


t4t
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: reno on October 01, 2015, 08:39:37 AM
I have used Windex or soap and water for years, on my 60, 66, Sharps, all my rifles and has worked fine. Also I will turn my rifles upside down when cleaning the bore, and have a paper towel under the chamber to catch the gunk when I run the rod down the barrel, that way nothing falls down in the action.

Reno
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on November 09, 2015, 07:34:40 PM
Somewhere i posted the method of fire forming .44-40 cases to shoot in the ,45 Colt rifle.
That thin case mouth with a full charge of Gun Powder (Holy Black) will keep the lifter and internal parts clean as a whistle.
It is a of of work to do, but well worth the effort rather than taking the gun apart with those butter soft screws.
respectfully submitted
Bunk
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: greyhawk on August 15, 2019, 02:41:24 AM
If you use the empty case in the chamber you don't need the cradle. One less thing to drag along to a match, and we all have empty cases at the end of a match. Just stand it up in your cart. Or lean it against your car. What ever works.

I go along with Buck, clean em upside down ina cradle - but first I pour water down the barrel from the chamber end - then one patch then more water - nuther patch - do that cycle three times then a patch soaked in wd40   - YES! wd40 - works at my place - wipe the outside down with the oily patch n put her away- Takes about a whole four minutes.   

fixed spellin mistakes
Title: Re: black powder cleanup for the 1860 and the 1866
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 15, 2019, 10:25:19 AM

NECROMANCERS!!!  Run for the hills .... the NECROMANCERS are loose!!!   ;D

It is some fun to revisit some of these older threads.  Cleaning a Henry is something near and dear to my heart.  I only shoot four of the things.  Plus a couple of 1866s.  And they are ALL ... .45s ... whoops, except one .44 Special.

Inna Wabac (think Perfesser and Sherman) I was one of the proponents of running 44-40 cases thru my 45 Colt dies and fire forming 45s out of em.  I still am.  Blow-By in .45 rifles, or actually any of the straight walled cases is a real PITA.  Switching to 44-40-45s resulted in really clean Carrier Blocks and Actions.  I had a real problem with my 44 Special '66 Trapper.  Chamber so bad it refused to run with BP or Subs.  Would foul out the chamber in 3 - 5 rounds.  Tried every cure I could think of.  Actually wrote the rifle off and stuffed it inna safe and was gonna sell it off as a "Smokeless Only" (Gag, Puke).

Then I ran into OD#3 right here in River City.  I had always considered annealing something lunatic fringe bench resters did for sport.  No applicability to what we do ...... right??  Wrong.  OD#3 shamed me into annealing straight walled cases.  The experiment was first applied to the "write off" 44 Special.  I annealed about 100 44 Russian cases (close proximity to 44 Henry Flat) and headed for a CAS match (Never, ever, test at an empty range first).  WOWZERS.  The rite off 44 Trapper ran like gangbusters.  Occasional sticky extraction from an over-annealed case, but whom care'd.  It RAN!!!  So I became an annealing fool and now anneal ALL my 45 Rifle ammo (not pistol) which includes 44 Russian, 45 Schofield and C45S.

SO::  What does all this have to do with cleaning a Henry, you might ask.  Well .... go ahead ..... ask.  When the Carrier Block of a Toggle Link rifle fouls, the only way to get it really clean is to pull it out of the gun.  When running annealed cases thru my Toggle rifles, I find the need to pull the carrier block is greatly reduced.  Reduced to "once in a while" and I just hit the carrier with a drop or two of oil.  My cleaning routine for my Toggle rifles is to chamber a fired case, squirt the bore with PAM, run a wet patch or two thru, run dry patch, run oil patch and wipe down w/oil rag .... DONE.

For those whom have been fighting Blow-By in straight walled cases, anneal them suckers and be done with Blow-By.  45 rifles that will run as clean or cleaner than a 44-40.