Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: Slamfire on November 27, 2020, 02:33:19 PM
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Having read " All " of the 45-60 reloading post on our forum ,, I loaded a few rds. ( first time for said rifle ).
Using H-4198 w/ .340 rg. HP. 1- rd. @ 23grs.
1- rd. @ 24grs.
1-rd. @ 24.5grs.
1- rd. @ 25grs.
1 rd. @ 26grs.,,, Why ,, it's all the bullets I had on hand. Which of these rds. would not be safe in my 45-60 Chaparral ???
hav'n coffee while I wait ,, Hootmix.
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Slamfire ,I wish you luck shooting your 45-60 build . Am anxious to hear how it works out for you . Keep us posted .,,,DT
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I don't have H-4198, but I've done a little experimenting with IMR 4198. As follows:
bullet 457122HP @345 gr. alloy 25:1 lead;tin
32 gr. IMR 4198
SPG lube in all grooves
Remington 9 1/2 LRP
velocity 1526.8 fps average extreme spread 146 fps
accuracy - poor
bullet 457122 (no hollow point) @ 338 gr. hard alloy
32 gr. IMR 4198
5/8" length of foam plug over powder
CCI 200 LRP
velocity 1441 average - es 135
accuracy - poor
These shot from a Uberti 1876 45-60 with Marples tang sight from a bench. Groups at 50 yards, about 4 1/2"...unacceptable. No signs of pressure in my rifle.
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I started with IMR4198 at 25.0 gr and the Lyman 457191 - 292gr bullet. This was the suggested "Cartridges of the World" load. It was mild, maybe 1100fps???. Will be loading up to 26.5gr next time.
I would suggest you get the 49th Lyman reloading manual or find it online. It contains loading info for the replica 1876 calibers.
Enjoy that heavy rifle it shoots comfortably. Mine is also Chaparral. What is the barrel length?
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I started with IMR4198 at 25.0 gr and the Lyman 457191 - 292gr bullet. This was the suggested "Cartridges of the World" load. It was mild, maybe 1100fps???. Will be loading up to 26.5gr next time.
I would suggest you get the 49th Lyman reloading manual or find it online. It contains loading info for the replica 1876 calibers.
Enjoy that heavy rifle it shoots comfortably. Mine is also Chaparral. What is the barrel length?
Original M1876, same load, but with a 2-inch square of single-ply toilet paper poked loosely into the case with the bullet compressing it lightly. MV= 1237 ft/sec.
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Why don't you try using 22 grains of 2400 rifle powder. In my 45-75 that load is really quite accurate and good. It is also listed for both calibers in Ken Waters book "Pet Loads--"Complete Volume" and is on page 774 in his chapter "Loading the Old Ones". It is listed for 20.0 to 22.0 grains of 2400. Give it a try!
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The thread on this board has a lot of different loads, most chronographed and tested. I'm shooting mostly B.P. in my 45/60 now, but my most successful smokeless load was 37.5 grs of IMR 4895. IMR 4198 was my next best powder. I didn't have much success w/ 2400- the results were so disappointing as to preclude posting them on the board. Best of luck :)
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OK I'm back !!.. fired all 5 rds. at 50yds. ,, the 23grs. shot as true as the 26grs. but the 26grs. shot higher ( no chro. ) OAL 2.260 crimp in front of dr. band , case length 1.881,, while waiting for ya'll answers I molded a few ( .341+grs. ) ,, loaded 26grs. up to 27 .5grs. of 5ea. ( lead mix 20-1 ) recoil was comfortable ,, most shot 4-5 in. high @ 50yds. ( about on for 100yds. ) Black River,, 26" ,oct. full buck horn w/ ladder ,, I do have the 49th. Lyman ,, will be trying more H-4198 ( great in my 40-60 x 26" Chappie ) & Rl-7.
Now to start zeroing the sights...……………………. To dusty texian ,,, YUP !. ;D
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
PS. cold & raining here today,, ( I hate shoot'n in this kind of weather ). ::)
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Slamfire,
I thought you had a '76 from earlier postings, just did not go back and look. Congrats now you have two calibers.
If I ever found another reasonably priced '76, I would hope it is a 40/60 rather than the 45/75. Originally I wanted the first caliber released but after seeing the issues with forming cartridges, the 40/60 would satisfy me. I tend to stay with original bullet weights and if I can original Winchester bullet molds. After I got the Lyman 457191, I did find a good Win 45/60 marked mold.
Good luck working up a good load.
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BRS,, I have been looking for a 457191,, my 457122HP s.c. mold came to me 4-5 years ago ,,just held on to it ,it throws at .341+ to .352+ depending on my mix . For my 40-60 ( it is my favorite ,, you know ) I have 2 molds , throws 210-218 ,, depending on mix.
Don't pass on a 45-60 if you get the chance , it really surprised me " gentle giant ". I'm kind of proud of this one ,, made it look 100 yrs. old ( as discussed on forum's here by Ken H ).
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
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Have we seen any picture of this "supposed" 1876 in 45/60? ;) ;D
BRS, Jamison Brass seems to be readily available is one looks for it. Grab it while you can!
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BRS,, I have been looking for a 457191,, my 457122HP s.c. mold came to me 4-5 years ago ,,just held on to it ,it throws at .341+ to .352+ depending on my mix . For my 40-60 ( it is my favorite ,, you know ) I have 2 molds , throws 210-218 ,, depending on mix.
Don't pass on a 45-60 if you get the chance , it really surprised me " gentle giant ". I'm kind of proud of this one ,, made it look 100 yrs. old ( as discussed on forum's here by Ken H ).
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
45-60 WCF is an easy round to load and shoot , try some Real Gunpowder in it and it will really surprise you ! Pulling your chain Amigo . ,,,,DT
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Trying !!!!!
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Hey DT,, try'n to get King " proof " as it were ( LMAO ).
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Trying !!!!!
Slamfire it came out looking Great ! You put a lot of work into that one and it shows . Like the Case a bunch .,,,DT
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That is one fine beautiful rifle you have there, Slamfire. Cool looking case too! I love looking at the pic's!
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Nobody gets by the Pic. Police Lol.,,,,DT
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DT, & all ,, took pics. of each piece as I made them ,and the junk iron ( steel ) I used ,, just had to shoot it!!! Still need to temper the butt plate , didn't put as much point on the top of the butt plate ,, glued 3 scrap pieces of black walnut together ( center piece is solid , both sides laminated on ) to make the stock , it looks " well used ". I was not going for a "NEW " look ,, thank you for the come backs.
Already had a couple shooters want to see the " old timer " ( I call her Patches ,, name says it all ) lol-lol .
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix
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You did an awesome job on Patches , Excellent work .,,,DT
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That is a fine looking rifle great work!!
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That's a 3 piece stock?!?!? Wow, that is awesome! I just figured it was the original well worn stock. I am envious of you guy's talents. All I know how to do is shoot.
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Hey King ,, I must have got the look I wanted ,, thank you for the compliment. ( still lmao … love the ribbing,,,,,, stay true ).
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
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Slamfire,
Nice work on that full buttstock. It looks good and looks old timey. Even made your own buttplate that is impressive work.
I do like my Chaparral 45/60 with its long 28" barrel. I also have a '86 with a round 26" barrel in 45/70 and it does handle just as easy.
I try to keep my brass at the Chaparral listed COL of 1.89 (same length as Donnelly 'Handloader's Manual of Cart. Conversions list) and load to the OAL of 2.25 even with smokeless. The rifle has not seen BP(I miss loading and shoot BP in matches) yet because I do not have any outdoor ranges close enough to me and unlike some of you 'lucky guys' I cannot just go out my backdoor and shoot.
Like I stated earlier I would like to put my hands on a 40/60 for the enjoyment of a different size caliber than 45's.
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Slamfire, That's an impressive rifle an really shows off the work you've put into it. That stock made from gluing up 3 pieces really does look good. More photos of that buttplate you made - looks good to me.
I'm working on the toggle links for my old 1876 now - cutting the first one from steel today after making a practice set from aluminum. THANK YOU!!
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Slamfire,
I thought you had a '76 from earlier postings, just did not go back and look. Congrats now you have two calibers.
If I ever found another reasonably priced '76, I would hope it is a 40/60 rather than the 45/75. Originally I wanted the first caliber released but after seeing the issues with forming cartridges, the 40/60 would satisfy me. I tend to stay with original bullet weights and if I can original Winchester bullet molds. After I got the Lyman 457191, I did find a good Win 45/60 marked mold.
Good luck working up a good load.
BRS
I went for the 45/75 - wanted to stay away from smokeless if I could - I had a 348 already so stocked up on brass first then bought the Uberti Rifle - yeah some work in forming brass but I wouldnt call it "issues" - I made 200 - lost 2 in the process. Didnt do any fireforming at all just filled em up with blackpowder and went shooting - took about three rounds to fully expand the cases but accuracy was acceptable from the get go. My rifle has not seen smokeless powder and it wont ever. I can see the logical in using a 45/70 based round but they dont have the cool factor that the 45/75 has
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greyhawk,
Thanks for the advice but it created more questions for me. First, in order to load and fire three times did you not have to expand the case mouth and neck to fit a 456 or 457 bullet? How did you do that? Did you start with a 340 bullet and just fire it down the 45 barrel? Or Anneal, expand, expand more, anneal more, expand more? Too me these are the 'issues' that result in mouths damage.
You are correct about the loading with BP and firing. I understand that as fireforming to the chamber dimensions.
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Since nobody has responded to your question about forming .348 brass into 45-75 brass. Not sure how the OP did his reforming, but this looks like one way. If you look at the .348 brass specs you find cutting .348 brass to the length of 45-75 the neck has been cut away and only the body is left which when ran thru the sizing die does the complete forming of 45-75 brass.
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KenH,
Thanks, that explains a lot, as to how, it would work out. I once had some 348Win brass but tried to work them to 56/50 Spencers and do not have any full length pieces left to measure or play with.
Again thanks.
Did not mean to redirect from the OP about 45/60's