New Henry Transitional Model

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Howdy! I just saw in the latest Shoot Magazine, right on the cover a new rifle becoming available called the Henry Transitional model or Improved Henry, this rifle has a forearm & loading gate while retaining some of the look of the Original Henry. Yes, I did read the artical at the newstand but didn't buy it. It is supposed to be a copy of a proto-type or a pre-curser to the 66' Winchester but, was ever available for sale to the public? Anyway, any of you cowboys/cowgirls seen this & how many want one? WBR     

[Coffinmaker]

SLP,

How fortunate that you shouyld ask!!!  I think I was the first kid on my block to get one!!!  It is a really nice rifle.  The wood fore end is sort of a waste (I ordered it sight unseen) as it slides back and fourth on the magaxine but other than that, a REALLY neat rifle.

To the best of my knowledge, the "Transitional" was limited to 7 prototype rifles that lead to the "Henry Improved" or 1866.  Each of the prototypes was slightly diferent until Winchester arrived at the '66.  Several, if not all of the prototypes still exist, although they are in private collections.

The Transitional as offered by Taylors is a great rifle.  The loading gate is unusual but very functional.  It is really nice to load from the side and still have a correct Henry pattern barrel/magazine.  It's also nice to suff it full of ammunition and not have to "hop" the thumb button on the magazine follower. 

With my other three Henrys, The "Transitional" is a great addition.  Unfortunately, I still don't have an "Iron" frame, but I am saving up my pennies!!!!!

Coffinmaker

[Ransom Gaer]

I have heard one thing about this new transitional model you need to make sure the loading gate is closed otherwise all those cartridges you just put in will try to escape.  This was mentioned on another wire awhile back.

I saw a prototype I guess at the Taylors & Co tent last year at Winter Range.  Kind of an interesting concept, but I decided that I would when the time came go with a standard Henry.

I have solved the hop problem on the regular Henry with the (what I call) Mk 2 stick.  It is a modification of the Mk1 A1 stick I have heard about on this here Henry wire.  It is a stick about 4" long with a u-nail installed in it.  It takes up the rest of the space in the magazine between the folllower and the last round.  Seems to work.

Ransom Gaer

[Advertising]

[Coffinmaker]

Ransom,

Yup.  Stick, Mark 1, A1.  My own little contribution to the world of cowboy Henry.  I make it from a length of 7/16 dowel, couple of used and resized 45 Schofield cases and brass screws for stops to keep it out of the action.
Primary reason I built it was to prevent a magazine discharge from a runaway follower.  Not my fault it also eliminates the henry Hop!! (ho ho).
And yes.  The first thing I learned about the Henry Transitional by Taylors, was the escape hatch.  If you happen to forget to close the loading gate at the loading table, after the first round the rest "bail out" like the crew of a wounded B-17.  The posse will think it hilarious (not that it happened to ME).  It was fine entertainment!!!  Ya just gotta remember to close that little door!!!
Really a fun gun.  I don't see any reason NOT to shoot a Henry as a Main Match gun.  They are FUN!!!

Coffinmaker
 

[Ransom Gaer]

Coffinmaker,

I just got my Henry after Christmas and got the idea for the stick from your discussion with Driftwood Johnson about his new Iron Frame.  I liked the name you had for the stick and decided since mine was a modification of yours I would continue with the same naming convention.  I want one of the iron frames too.  I have only shot it once at the range to sight it in and was amazed at how accurate that thing is.  Its baptism of fire is going to be Winter Range unless one of the local clubs actually has a match.  Last four matches here in the Denver area have been cancelled due to snow.  Thankfully we are supposed to have some warm weather and that should help turn the snow into mud.

Next trick to figure out is how to get Schofields to work.  They at times keep the elevator from returning to the feed position for the next round.  I'll worry about it after Winter Range.

Ransom Gaer

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

As mentioned, these 'transitional' Henries were just prototypes and never went into production. For a slightly different version, take a look at the conversion that Happy Trails is offering out of the Smith Shop. Hap has been offering these for a year or so now.

http://www.thesmithshop.com/conversionhenry.html

Notice the price is just for the conversion, you have to supply the rifle. I'm sure Hap can procure a rifle for you, but you'll have to talk to him about that.

[Dusty Morningwood]

I've never been one for prototypes.  As it is, my "character" just happened to be in town when he stumbled upon a shipment of the new-fangles Open Tops and traded in his Navies on a pair.  Worked well with his Henry and made his ammo needs simpler.  As neat as these transitional rifles are, somehow they just don't seem to fit IMHO.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

You know, I was looking at an old wood shotgun magazine plug i had kicking around the den. I had the blasphemous thought that it would make a "spacer stick" for the Henry with one end cut off. 

Suddenly, my hand that held it started twitching and jerking! Before I knew it, I tossed the vile impliment across the den! 

The spirits of Tombstone's Ed Schieffelin, High Back Wolf, Sitting Bull,  and Lt. Fredrick H. Beecher must have overpowered me and saved me from the blasphemy!  Would they have used a "spacer stick?" I think not.  I mean, picture Gus Mc Crae out on the Illano Estacado shooting at the renagades.  Now try to visualize him using a spacer stick in the foray!

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!

 Maybe next I will engineer and extented magazine for my Spencer.  I can see it now.  a Spencer with a banana clip!

Just my humble opinion <ggg>

[Pettifogger]

Gus didn't have the clock running when he was shooting at Blue Duck and those other baddies!

[Will Ketchum]

You know, I was looking at an old wood shotgun magazine plug i had kicking around the den. I had the blasphemous thought that it would make a "spacer stick" for the Henry with one end cut off. 

Suddenly, my hand that held it started twitching and jerking! Before I knew it, I tossed the vile impliment across the den! 

The spirits of Tombstone's Ed Schieffelin, High Back Wolf, Sitting Bull,  and Lt. Fredrick H. Beecher must have overpowered me and saved me from the blasphemy!  Would they have used a "spacer stick?" I think not.  I mean, picture Gus Mc Crae out on the Illano Estacado shooting at the renagades.  Now try to visualize him using a spacer stick in the foray!

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!

 Maybe next I will engineer and extented magazine for my Spencer.  I can see it now.  a Spencer with a banana clip!

Just my humble opinion <ggg>

Bernie, I have to agree but to each their own.   What I need is a needle brazed to the magazine follower to prick my hand so I notice it when it gets there.   I often work the lever and then realize what happened when I dry fire.

Will Ketchum

[Coffinmaker]

Ranson,

Is Your Carrier Block hanging up in the "down" position??  The toggle link rifles are length sensitive with Schofield ammunition.  You can't use any bulet shorter than a 200 gr RNFP with an un-modified carrier block. 
With Shofield ammunition, two rounds feed form the magazine.  The return ramp on the carrier block must return the second round to the magazine.  Often, the case rim of the Schofiled will hang up a little at the top of the ramp.  You may have to refine the approach to the ramp, at the top of the ramp with a small half round file.  Usually takes about 10 minutes to clean up.  The Schofield case rim is about 10 thou larger in diameter than the Colt round.

For those who don't commit blasphemy with a stick,  I also modify my Carrier Blocks so the rifles will function with ammunition cut to .44 Russian length.  Holds as many as the originals.  Loads on Sunday and shoots all week!! don'tchaknow!!  No self respectint Henry would ever spit out a case longer than a .44 Russian.

Nope.  Gus wasn't on a timer.  Did notice, most of time, the follower was all the way down.  Empty rifle.  Same in Dances with Wolves.  Funny what you notice sometimes!!!

Coffinmaker

[Ransom Gaer]

Coffinmaker,

What is happening is after I have loaded a round in the chamber as I bring the lever back and the elevator starts going back down it will stop half way down or there abouts.  It hangs up as the elevator is going down, not when it is down at the bottom.  Haven't had a chance yet to really inspect it and see what is happening.  I am using 200 grain bullets.  I have also noticed the case length issue.  This rifle does seem to be case length sensitive. My '66 doesn't seem top be.

Ransom Gaer

[Coffinmaker]

Ransom,

You either have a burr or trash in the mortice the Carrier Block rides in, or, the side spring that powers the carrier block is not correctly installed/fitted or is lose.  The carrier block should not start back down until the lever is about half closed on a stock rifle.  The side spring should drop into the notch on the top of the arm that drives the carrier block.  In this position, it holds the carrier block UP for the breach block to strip the round into the chamber, the lever will continue back and engage the top of the arm and start it back down.  The spring powers the arm/carrier the rest of the way down in the mortice until it aligns with the magazine.  Trash in the mortice or a lose side spring will allow the carrier block to stop and interfere with the breach block.
If there is trash (blow-by) or a burr in the mortice, it will stop the carrier block about where you describe.  Also, inside the receiver there is a "slot" between the mortice and the area for the toggle links.  A burr on/in this slot may also bind the arm.
If the spring is not fit to the frame, and is not tight, it will not exert enough pressure on the arm to hold the carrier block UP or may not drive the carrier block back down.  DO NOT run this spring lose.  Some back the screw off to make the rifle run lighter.  BAD JOSS.
The side springs installed by the factory do NOT fit the frame.  They need to be "refined" at the rear radius and when correctly fitted, can be run considerably lighter than stock.
If you have not disassembled the rifle yet, getting those lever spring screws out is going to be fun (NOT).  Be prepared to replace the screws.  When the springs don't fit correctly, you will strip the threads on the screws before you can get the spring to fit flat to the frame.

Coffinmaker

[Ransom Gaer]

Coffinmaker,

To answer your question, yes I have disassembled my Henry and I think Uberti's gorilla assembled it.  I will have to at some point replace the screws.  Took it apart again and looks like the side spring was a little loose.  When I REALLY tightened it, operation was better.  I think I need to look at the spring and get it to fit better.  It ain't as good as it could be I think.

Ransom Gaer

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I think anyone who intended using a Henry for serious social interactions would have filled the magazine up to the brim, so a spacer stick would of course be a moot point.

I like mine, I'll continue to use it. If you don't want to use one, that is of course your privilege. But you may really get the twitches once I finish my 'faux ivory' spacer stick made of genuine, virgin 21st Century White Delrin. I'll be sure to post photos when it's done, for all to enjoy.

[Henry4440]

To the best of my knowledge, the "Transitional" was limited to 7 prototype rifles that lead to the "Henry Improved" or 1866.  Each of the prototypes was slightly diferent until Winchester arrived at the '66.  Several, if not all of the prototypes still exist, although they are in private collections.
Coffinmaker

I know the  following Henrys:
Henry Rifle  s/n 13001 mfg 1866 - Experimental Henry w/loading gate, octagon barrel, enclosed mag tube
Henry Rifle  s/n 14994 mfg 1866 - Transitional Henry, First Model 1866-style receiver w/loading gate, octagon Henry barrel, open mag tube w/o standard Henry follower, saddle ring
Link:http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1860/model_60.shtml