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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Gabriel Law on September 05, 2014, 11:51:13 PM

Title: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 05, 2014, 11:51:13 PM
I have a Snider/Enfield III that has been cut off for'd of the rear barrel band.  I would like to restore it to it's original length stock, so I need the forward band with the swivel integral, and a nose piece.  This rifle has blued steel hardware.  I also need the steel ramrod too.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: pony express on September 06, 2014, 08:06:22 AM
I wonder if IMA might have any parts available from the Nepal stash they have.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Niederlander on September 06, 2014, 08:26:54 AM
Yep, they've got at least some of it.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 06, 2014, 09:40:47 AM
Most of the Nepal copied firearms are base off of the Second Pattern P-1853 Enfield. The bands are solid oval and held in place by band springs.

Gabriel Law says he has a "Snider/Enfield III". Am I correct to assume this would be a Snider based off of a Third Pattern Enfield?
There is also a Fourth Pattern, these were the interchangeable P-1853's
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 06, 2014, 12:09:55 PM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/1822_zps1453c665.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/1822_zps1453c665.jpg.html)

Here's what my rifle is supposed to look like.  As I mentioned, it has had the stock cut just forward of the rear band and the forward one, the nose piece, and the ramrod are missing.  This is a worthy rifle and has an almost mint bore...it is crying for restoration.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 06, 2014, 12:55:14 PM
Gabriel,

Can you post photos of what you have?
Photos of the left side lock area, left side rear band and rear sight area, and the trigger guard rear sling swivel area.
All of these will help identify your Snider better.
I maybe able to direct you to some proper sources that will help you restore this firearm to its original configuration.

The photo you posted looks like a Fourth Pattern (interchangeable pattern) Short Infantry Rifle of the P-1861 Pattern. (just my guess at this point)
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 06, 2014, 03:13:32 PM
You bet.  I'll take pictures this afternoon.  Thanks for helping out.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on September 06, 2014, 05:28:49 PM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/1822_zps1453c665.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/1822_zps1453c665.jpg.html)

Here's what my rifle is supposed to look like.  As I mentioned, it has had the stock cut just forward of the rear band and the forward one, the nose piece, and the ramrod are missing.  This is a worthy rifle and has an almost mint bore...it is crying for restoration.

That looks like a 2-band short rifle, as issued to sergeants and rifle regiments.  Rattlesnakejack has one with the long sword bayonet. Mine is a Mk III 3-band rifle with a spike bayonet.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 06, 2014, 08:14:12 PM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/100_4320_zpsb74bd2a2.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/100_4320_zpsb74bd2a2.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4681_zps558413bf.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4681_zps558413bf.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4679_zpsa371d8b1.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4679_zpsa371d8b1.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4682_zps1842418f.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4682_zps1842418f.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4677_zps92b2112b.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4677_zps92b2112b.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4678_zps2ee8248b.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4678_zps2ee8248b.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4683_zpsf4777dd2.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4683_zpsf4777dd2.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4684_zps151381c7.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4684_zps151381c7.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/102_4685_zps51693437.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/102_4685_zps51693437.jpg.html)

I'm happy to provide more if it'll help.

Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Niederlander on September 06, 2014, 09:12:02 PM
That does look like an EXCELLENT candidate to get shooting again!
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on September 06, 2014, 09:42:47 PM
I agree! That is much nicer than mine except for the amputation.  I see a bayonet lug for the YATAGHAN sword bayonet, so it is a two band rifle. The III on top of the action says it is a Mk III action with improved locking features and constructed of steel.

Even today, Rifle Regiments "Fix----Swords" (not fix-bayonets)  Often Infantry regiments have the daily Duty Sergeant carrying a lengthy bayonet as a badge of office. Both holdovers from the Victorian army.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Niederlander on September 06, 2014, 10:05:59 PM
Make sure you take pictures during the rebuild process, and share them with the rest of us.  In fact, I think we should have a thread stickied just for the various rebuild projects a lot of us are doing.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 06, 2014, 10:36:40 PM
Once I have the parts in hand, I will take a photo series of the restoration.  I see it (so far) as being straight forward, and am looking forward to it.

Anyone know where I can buy a sword/bayonette for the old girl?
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on September 07, 2014, 12:59:02 AM
Talk to Rattlesnake Jack.  He told me there is a reproduction made for a french rifle, I think, that is close. It needs the muzzle ring reamed out a bit.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 07, 2014, 07:27:08 AM
Gabriel,

Check with;
Terry Kirkpatrick
Antique Guns and Parts of VA.
199 Mill Village Circle
Clarksville, VA.23927
The last phone # I have for him is 434-374-4112

Tell him you have a P-1869 MK III Snider Short Infantry Rifle
Tell him you Need.
a steel fore end cap and screw,
front barrel band with screw and swivel
Ram rod
Bayonet
And see if he has any wood from the rear barrel band forward.
If he does not then check with,
Dunlap Woodcrafters
1415 Wolftrap Run RD.
Vienna, VA. 22182
703-631-5137
Hope this helps.
My best,
 Blair 
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 07, 2014, 06:48:43 PM
Thank you very much Blair.  I'll call Monday morning!!!
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 08, 2014, 01:58:25 AM
Looks like a decent example worthy of restoration, especially if the bore is as good as you indicate .......

The "DC" in diamond shaped border stamp is the standard Dominion of Canada property mark for that era, and the numbers likely denote that this particular rifle was issued to the 22nd Battalion, "The Oxford Rifles", of the Active Militia of Canada .... with the 317 being the "stand of arms number" (i.e. rack number) assigned to this rifle and its related accoutrements.  Being a "Rifles" unit, all Other Ranks were likely armed with the 2-band  Short Rifle and its Pattern 1856 "yataghan" sword bayonet ..... whereas in regular Infantry units, only Sergeants would receive the Short Rifle and sword bayonet, while all Other Ranks in such units were issued the 3-band Long Rifle and triangular-bladed Pattern 1853 socket bayonet.  (These bayonet patterns date from the period of muzzle-loading Enfield Rifle Muskets, but were used with the Mark I and II breech-loading conversions of those rifles utilizing the Snider breech system, as well as the Mark III Snider-Enfield rifles which were manufactured from scratch ...)

Here is a young member of a Canadian Active Militia Rifles unit (in this case, the 41st  Brockville Battalion of Rifles) with yataghan sword bayonet affixed to his Short Rifle -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Canadian%20military/41stRifles_sepia_zpsd6d26df6.jpg)

Original Pattern 1856 bayonets can still be found quite readily .... but a decent example with a serviceable scabbard will undoubtedly cost at least $300 ....   A more affordable alternative would be one of the reproduction Pattern 1856 bayonets (usually made in India) which are sold by Civil War Sutlers .... they are offered because, as you may know, Enfield-pattern Rifle Muskets were the second most common firearm used in the American Civil War and are thus very popular with ACW re-enactors .....  Dixie Gun Works is a good source for such a reproduction P'1856 bayonet - about the best price available and comes with a repro of the proper British bayonet frog for this bayonet and scabbard, whereas most other vendors sell the frogs separately - http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3870 (http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3870)  -
(http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/BE0230.jpg)

Such a reproduction bayonet might require a bit of hand fitting to get it to fit properly and snugly.  Also, the original grip scales on these bayonets were actually black highly-compressed leather with a finely checkered surface ....
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Enfields/p56grip_1_zps88ababb5.jpg)
(Some aren't as finely checkered as this ....)

However, in my experience the grip scales on the reproduction bayonets are usually made of wood and the checkering is not really fine enough - so they don't look "correct" .....
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Enfields/P56griprepro_zps853ad142.gif~original)

Although I do have some original P'1856 bayonets for my rifles, I bought one of these reproduction bayonets from Dixie a number of years ago (mainly to get a serviceable scabbard for an original without a scabbard) and it had much coarser checkering on its wooden grip scales than seen in the above photo.  I played around with them, doubling up the checkering lines, and then stained them black (with leather dye) and the result isn't too bad -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Enfields/P56griprpromodified_zps82640e65.jpg)

As for the other parts you need for your restoration project, I highly recommend you join British Militaria Forums, where I am a member - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/directory (http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/directory) .....  Despite the name, this site is almost exclusively dedicated to discussion of 19th Century British military firearms, and has a dedicated Snider-Enfield Forum .... and also a "Yard Sale" forum where you could make known your wants and needs for parts ....
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on September 09, 2014, 08:38:12 PM
Rattlesnake Jack;  Sir, this is somewhat off topic.   wHat is the recoil like in the snder or martini henry with GAF loads?   My doctor told me NO high power rifles/shotguns,   So before I buy , How much do they Kick?
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on September 09, 2014, 09:08:56 PM
With approximately service loads, I find mine no worse than a 12 gauge with field loads. There are some options;

1. Load a .58 roundball over something like a 2/3 load with some cushioning between powder & ball. (I'm not sure about POI?)

2.  Lee has a slightly lighter than normal (470Gr.) minie mould. As well, they have a larger .578 diameter option. Load down, of course.

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-minie-bullet-molds/

3.  Slip or lace on butt pad. Most Sniders would be short enough to accomodate a pad.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: River City John on September 09, 2014, 09:13:11 PM
I believe Guns Garrett will have some insight into shooting a short rifle with .577 loads . . .


RCJ
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Guns Garrett on September 09, 2014, 09:47:50 PM
Mk 1 Martini-Henry carbine,  .577-450 loads; 75 gr FFG, 485 gr slug ("after" photo: after about 80 rounds):
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 10, 2014, 01:41:03 AM
The original standard "service loads" - 480 grain bullets and around 80 grains black powder for both Snider-Enfield and Martini-Henry - have pretty stout recoil, as clearly evidenced by Guns' photos .... However, he was effectively shooting nearly a full rifle load in a M-H cavalry carbine .... which even the War Department wouldn't let its soldiers do .... they delayed issuance of such carbines until a reduced carbine load was adopted.

As Sir Charles indicates, lighter loads will significantly reduce the recoil, and  still be effective for most GAF shooting (i.e. except perhaps for any "long range" shots.)  I have not yet tried any round ball loads, but many people report excellent results with such loads in Sniders .... especially full-length 3-band rifles, which have very "slow twist" 1:78  rifling.  However,  I tam of the view that a ball iof only 58 caliber range or so is too small for best accuracy, since the progressive depth Enfield rifling grooves (.013"deep at the breech, .005" at the muzzle) result in an effective average major bore diameter of over .590".  Accordingly, most folks reporting consistently good accuracy with round ball loads use at least a .590" diameter ball, or even .600" ..... Chamber dimensions on these old girls vary somewhat, and that may determing how big a ball you can use and still have your cartridges chamber fully. 

A .600" round ball  will only weigh about 325 grains, and a reduced powder charge of perhaps 60 grains black powder should produce a pretty mild recoil. 

In a "straightwall" case like the .577 Snider. something as simple as cream of wheat or cornmeal can be used as a filler between the reduced powder charge and the projectile .... however, you need a fairly good quantity of a suitable black powder lubricant in the load somewhere, to keep the fouling soft.  I use a "grease cookie" under the bullet - i.e. a wad of home-made soft lube (50/50 mix of olive oil and beeswax melted together) about 1/4" thick, sandwiched between cards punched out of milk cartons - but many people using round ball loads seat the ball well into the case mouth and then fill the top level with their lube .... rather like lubing the chambers of a cap and ball revolver.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on September 10, 2014, 02:50:12 PM
Thanks for the Information, Gentlemen.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on September 10, 2014, 07:18:00 PM
I have a custom LEE mould I obtained from Kerry Jenkinson.  Its .592 RN bevel base. I can't recall the weight but will post it here.

Grant. I'll bet a .60 roundball could be simply pressed on top of the case mouth.

P.S: The .592 Jenkinson-LEE mould drops bullets in excess of 500 grains, the limit of my measure. Kerry had them made for Snider Match shooters who needed accuracy out to 300 yards.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 10, 2014, 08:21:53 PM
Doesn't sound like quite the same bullet perhaps, but I have a double-cavity Lee mould of a Jenkinson-designed bullet .... I gather he had Lee make a batch of these moulds some years ago.  The hand-written info on the end of the Lee box says it is a .590, nominal weight 450 gr.   Here is a "scanner plonk" of the cavities -

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Snider-Enfield/590Jenkinsonjpg.jpg)

This stubby little bullet (referred to by some as a "ball-ette") works very well for me.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 10, 2014, 08:29:37 PM
I also have a Lee .600 round ball mould around here somewhere, although I haven't cast any let alone tried them in any Sniders. 

The mould actually came with this lovely .62 cal. Hawken-style rifle I acquired a few years ago for a price I couldn't refuse. 
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Guns%20Misc/Hawken001.jpg)
(It was too big for the chap who had it, but goes well with my rather sizable frame  ....)

Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 11, 2014, 12:00:38 AM
Can you advise where Terry Kirkpatrick resides?  I have called him two days running during the day time, and left messages, but no answers yet.  I'd like to call him in the evening if I could learn what time zone he's in...don't want to get him out of bed!!

Great advice all around on shooting the Snider.  I'm not at that stage yet...want to restore it first.  I also have to acquire brass and dies.  I have a .590", .595", .600" and .610" round ball mould, and was given some minies in .58 cal to try.  But first the work.

A friend dropped over with a coffee can full of old parts today, and among the parts there's a rear band for the rifle, but mine has one already, in much better condition.  His thoughtfulness was much appreciated though.  There was nothing that I needed for the Snider...bummer!
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 11, 2014, 09:18:58 AM
Gabriel,

Terry Kirkpatrick lives in Clarksville, VA.
You might try this phone # 434-374-0756
Also try vagunparts@verizon.net  (I don't know if this will work)

Type this phone # into your favorite search and see what comes up
My best,
Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 11, 2014, 12:22:47 PM
Keep in mind in your search fo rparts that what you need will be essentially the same as the same parts from an original Pattern 1856 Enfield Rifle Musket, which is what the Mark I and II Snider short rifles were converted from .... and the Mark III's, although new-made rather than converted, used the same parts - i.e. they either used up existin parts or made them to the same specs.  That should broaden your search parameters somewhat.

If unsuccessful in locating parts on this side of the Atlantic, you may wish to contact Peter Dyson & Sons in the UK .... one of the best sources of both original and reproduction parts for old British guns.  Although the parts are well illustrated and described on their website, my searches don't seem to come up with anything indicating which specific model of rifle their barrel bands fit, for example.  You could undoubtedly tell them what you are restoring and they could make sure you get the correct parts.

Here is a page of parts they offer for Enfield rifle muskets -
- https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=cap%20forend&PN=ENFIELD_RIFLE_parts.html#aFec_20148_20s (https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=cap%20forend&PN=ENFIELD_RIFLE_parts.html#aFec_20148_20s)
The parts listed there appear to be mostly new-made .... including the cast steel (as opposed to brass) fore-end cap you need for your short rifle (Fec 148 s) which is rough cast and would need cleaning, fitting and polishing.  Note that they also offer new-made rough cast rear, middle and front barrel bands .... but describing them that way implies to me that they fit the 3-band long rifle.  However, perhaps they also fit the short rifle, or they may have different bands for it - you'd have to ask.  If you went this route you'd also need the band screw and sling swivel ....

Parts for the modern-made Italian reproductions of Enfield Rifle Muskets should also work.  One problem is that I don't believe anyone has ever made a reproduction iron-mounted P'56 short rifle, so reproduction nose-caps may only be available in brass. If all else failed, I suppose you could use one of those, darkened with brass black.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Charles Isaac on September 13, 2014, 09:52:58 AM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/SniderEnfield/100_4320_zpsb74bd2a2.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/SniderEnfield/100_4320_zpsb74bd2a2.jpg.html)





That is a very nice rifle!

It will be great to see this get restored.  Outstanding job finding that one Sir!






Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 13, 2014, 12:10:08 PM
I made inquiries with Dyson in England.  I listed the parts I thought would work, describing the rifle I have, and they replied that they could not supply any of the parts.  So i asked if it was a shipping issue or what?  They returned my mail saying they didn't have the parts in stock anymore.  Frustrating.
I'll try Terry Kirkpatrick right now.  Thanks for persevering guys.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Charles Isaac on September 13, 2014, 03:47:59 PM


There is usually a good selection of Enfield musket/Snider parts on Ebay, but strangely, this is all I see now.


The nose cap is brass so a dug one will work fine. I had one that came from a wreck off the coast and it cleaned up like new. These are riveted with brass pins to the wood and a little tricky to install.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131294191456?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


The band here isn't in the best condition, but there will be more if you watch for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301312265383?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649



Best of luck getting this rifle restored.


Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 14, 2014, 10:35:12 PM
I appreciate those links Charles.  I agree that they are not in great condition...I'd like to hold out for something closer to the patina on the rifle.  But the truth is, this inspired me to register on EBAY, so I'll watch for the parts to come up again.  I have no idea how to go about it...I assume you just type in a search for Enfield barrel bands...?
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Charles Isaac on September 15, 2014, 09:09:14 AM
Yes Sir, just type in "Enfield musket barrel bands", "Snider barrel bands", "musket barrel bands" etc.  or if you are good at searching through mountains of pictures just search "musket parts", "gun parts",  "civil war gun parts"-whatever these could be described as.











Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 15, 2014, 04:39:21 PM
Gabriel,

My suggestion is to stay with the parts that fit your original interchangeable firearm.
Leave the rest of the BS, "British Stuff" alone.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 15, 2014, 09:24:17 PM
Good advice.  I intend to hold out for the parts I want and need.  Eventually, they should turn up.  It's not as if I'm looking for the Holy Grail.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 19, 2014, 10:14:53 AM
Thanks to Rattlesnake Jack, I have found Lodgewood Mfg. and have ordered the parts I need to recreate the missing forearm for my rifle.  Since the stuff is coming from across the pond, the shipping was prohibitively expensive for the correct ramrod, so RJ has found me a source here in Canada.  Finally, this is coming together.  Thanks to everyone for providing information and encouragement.  I'll post pictures of the re-build as it unfolds.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Pitspitr on September 19, 2014, 10:35:56 AM
So, Gabe,
Any chance you can bring it to Nebraska and shoot it with us next June?
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 19, 2014, 11:36:31 AM
Just a wee correction .... although we were looking at stuff from Lodgewood, I think GL ordered the necessary metal parts (except rod, as he mentions) from E.J. Blackley & Son in the UK: http://www.blackleyandson.com/index.html (http://www.blackleyandson.com/index.html)

This firm has its own foundry and machining facility to produce parts, and looks like an excellent source for some hitherto difficult-to-locate parts for various British military and sporting firearms.  In particular, it is the only place in the world that I am aware of where one can get the correct iron/steel fore-end cap for a P'56 Enfield Short Rifle (2-band) or the Snider-Enfield equivalent, as opposed to the brass ones used on the Long Rifle (3-band) and ALL reproduction Enfields from that era.  What's more, they have produced these with War Department inspection/acceptance markings!

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Snider-Enfield/nosecap_2-band_Blackleyandson_zpsb29329df.jpg)
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Pitspitr on September 19, 2014, 12:22:47 PM
So do they put their own mark on them somewhere so that they don't get passed off as an original someday?
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 19, 2014, 12:43:57 PM
Gabriel,

I truly wish you luck.
But, don't be surprised if the parts made for the P-1856 Short Rifle don't fit your interchangeable RSAF made Enfield P-1960/1 Short Rifle Mk III Snider.
I hope they do.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 19, 2014, 03:11:27 PM
Don't alarm Gabriel unduly, Blair ....  The parts are correct for his rifle, or in any event can certainly be made to fit.  He must replace the fore-stock tip anyway, and can fit its contours to the band and nosecap, rather than having to fit those parts to an existing stock.  Also, if the parts are truly made specifically to fit a Pattern 1856 rifle, that is as I would expect for any such parts to be useable with all of the models of Short Rifle.   For nose cap and barrel-band fitting purposes, the critical difference of the Pattern 1860 and 1861 variants was a slightly heavier barrel profile, which would simply necessitate the removal of a bit more metal from the inner surface of the barrel band, and from the barrel contour of the nosecap, during fitting. 
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 19, 2014, 03:44:58 PM
RattlesnakeJack,

No, I don't wish to do that.
But, he needs to know that there are variations between the P-56 and the P- 60/1 short rifle.
Barrel diameter between the two is no small matter either.
There are also differences between those arms made a RSAF and those produced at Birmingham "BSAT".

Gabriel's gun is of the late RSAF pattern and will not interchange with the BSAT variation.
You all do what you want.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on September 19, 2014, 03:59:58 PM
Blair:   We aren't talking lock or action parts here ....

Gabriel is fully aware that hand fitting will almost certainly be necessary in this restoration, regardless of what parts he may acquire.   Are you suggesting that there are such significant differences between the Enfield and Birmingham rifles that a forward barrel band and nosecap can't be fitted .... especially when the forestock from the rear band forward must be replaced in the restoration process? 
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Blair on September 19, 2014, 04:17:04 PM
Rattlesnakejack,

Yes.
That is what I am suggesting.
I wont say they can't be fitted, just that they may not be interchangeable as much as the Mk III Snider.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 20, 2014, 07:49:35 PM
Grant, I guess I've looked at so many web sites that I got them mixed up.  Thanks for setting this straight.
My goal in the restoration is to make the old rifle as close as I can to what the unaltered rifle would be, and I know there will be some fitting, perhaps lots of it.  I'm up to the task, I believe.  Ideally, it would be best to have a perfect example on the bench to emulate, but I'm pretty much winging it.  It is certainly not my intention to pass this 'restored' rifle off as completely original.  I the condition it is currently, it'll be pretty hard to make it worse.  I appreciate your encouragement and this dialogue has been very enlightening in its own right.  My thanks to everyone who has contributed.

It is unlikely that I can come to Nebraska for a Snider match, I fear.  Not this year, anyway.
Title: Re: Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield
Post by: Stu Kettle on September 20, 2014, 10:17:16 PM
Don't dismiss the idea of a nebraska trip yet - you have until June to finish your project & load ammunition.