Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Niederlander on December 30, 2011, 07:30:00 PM
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Gentlemen,
Does anyone make a good reproduction of the 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife? Most of the repros I see look pretty bad. Are the Legendary Arms ones any good? Thanks!
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The legendary arms ones (also sold by Dixie Gunworks) are the best available, though they are far from perfect. You are correct that the others I find littering ebay right now are horrid!
There was a very limited batch of museum quality ones made by R. Stephen Dorsey in the early 1990's. I believe Dusan Farrington was also part of this effort. They are awesome and I have only seen one for sale since and it went for a pretty penny. I heard that they are often getting pawned off as originals now. Ron Hicks made a few great ones also according to legend.
For what it's worth, I carry a legendary arms.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
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Heck if you are willing to wait 5 years, the folks at randall might make you one for somewhere close to 5 or 6 bills.
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FTrooper,
What are the primary problems with the Legendary Arms knives? Is it the general shape, construction, etc., or the markings? I'll have to admit I've never been overly concerned with markings as long as everything else is okay.
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I think they are a little big (but the other repros tend to be a bit small). A little effort sanding the grips to a more realistic size goes a long way. The markings are a bit good.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
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As part of my order for a Ponch Western and Wildlife Wonders sent their catalog. They have a rifleman's knife repro for $50. Know nothing of the quality, but they are real good about accepting returns.
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I bought a used Legendary Arms version for $50 off e-bay, so I'll see what it looks like when it gets here.
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Its what I carry for my 1852 Mounted Rifleman's impression.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
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Visually is it a "good" repro?
How about the blade, serviceable decent blade with good steel and temper or mostly just something to look at?
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Visually it is good, blade seems study enough for hacking and such.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
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In 1848, the Ordnance department contracted for the first Rifleman's Knife made to a specific Government pattern.
The contract was let to Ames Manufacturing Company - Cabotville, Massachusetts, for 1000 knives.
The blade was 11 3/4" long and 1 5/8" wide, with a spear point and a short fales edge.
The guard was of brass - the handle saled of walnut, with a hole for a thong.
They feature both manufacturer and inspector's marks on the blade's ricasso and guard - 'AMES MFG CO./CABOTVILLE/1849' - on the obverse - 'U.S.' and 'WD' - the guard bore 'W.D.' and 'J.W.R.'.
The sheath was of black leather, with a brass throat and tip - featuring a stud button for a frog - the stud stamped with a small 'D'.
These knives were intended for issue to the Regiment of Mounted Riflemen - organized at Fort McHenry in Baltimore in 1846.
This Regiment also had the distinction of being the first Regular unit issued with the Colt's revolver - the Walkers.
You'll find this information in several sources - here are but two:
'American Knives'- Petersen
'A Collection of U.S. Military Knives' - Cole
Vaya,
Scouts Out
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This use of this knife is also interesting. I think it is over represented in some areas and under represented in other.
They were made and sent out to Fort Leavenworth for issue along the Oregon trail at the moment that Regiment of Mounted Rifles were falling apart from Gold Rush fever. Its appears not more that four Companies were issued it, with the bulk being forwarded to Bernicia Arsenal California before ever being issued with the bulk of the regiments equipment, horses, and enlisted me to be absorbed into the 1st Dragoons. When the regiment is inspected in Texas the knives are mentioned specifically by Col. Mansfield as issued to Companies C & E but no others. (it is assumed that Companies A & K left on Oregon Trail until later may also have been issued them, also two brothers who served in Co. F RMR in the 1850's mention caring large knives in the regiment, but they do not specify if its the M1849 or civilian types). We also know that Company E carried theirs all the way to Dec. 1862 and turned them in at Memphis Tenn, where they remained.
The fun part is the large quantity sent to Bernicia, as they still show up in reports from the chief of ordnance in the 1870's! I don't have those reports handy (in storage) but some time in the late 1870's or early 1880's a batch of them are issued out to the troops!
Another interesting part of the story is that the knives were issued originally with a special belt and buckle. It was a black buff belt and the buckle was the same as the 1840's artillery buckle (plains spoon and wreath with "US"), with the belt loops slightly bigger.
There is also a picture during "Bleeding Kansas" of a border ruffian caring one in his belt.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
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How about this one? ???
http://www.ioffer.com/i/Ames-Rifleman-s-Knife-182432827
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That one, to be honest, does not give me a warm-fuzzy. Something about the contour of the pommel is off as is blade taper. Also its a bad overall image. One tale-tell sign of a really cruddy one is that the "lanyard" hole in the pommel isn't a hole, but a little glass/plastic "jewel".
Also the scabbard isn't doing it for me either, the fit of the brass to leather looks a bit weak and the rivets seem way to big.
Yes I AM that nit-picky. But when you guys ask, I will give you my honest and upfront opinion. It is then up to you if you think I am overboard or that you can live with minor flaws.
One thing (especially in THIS hobby, as opposed to museum interpretation) I will never judge a man on the quality of his costume.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
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Gentlemen,
Does anyone make a good reproduction of the 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife? Most of the repros I see look pretty bad. Are the Legendary Arms ones any good? Thanks!
i have one of these knives, i really need help to identify wether or nort it is genuine, it is so much like the real one ive seen sell at auction, compared to the really rubbish copies ive seen ,including measurements etc seem correct. however it has issues, i cant find a d on the frog stud and more importantly it has an "s" in cabotville, making it cabotsville please tell me that this is real with a stamping error. he says with great expectations, also there is no leather around the handle. please please help me.
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As an additional detail to the post above, Lt. Claiborne of Co. C, U.S.M.R., took possession of 100 of the Whitneyville-Walker Colt revolving pistols after Capt. Samuel Walker had been killed at Huamantla. Unfortunately this was after 394 Walkers, including the Co. C marked Colts had already been issued to the Texas Mounted Volunteers (Texas Rangers) under Col. Jack Hays. An additional shipment of Walkers was issued to the U.S.M.R after this period. fulfilling Colt's govt. contract.
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If you have one from 'Legendary Arms' I think you already 'know' that it isn't genuine, so I guess I don't fully understand your question.
Do you mean to ask whether it's an accurate copy?
If so - that answer's 'no' - but it's a 'fairly close copy' and for that reason, it works well enough for the average reenactor.
Hong Kong and Pakistan produce 'fairly close' copies of pretty much everything for low enough prices - but 'can' produce excellent, properly-marked versions when one pays them enough - it's just that no one ever asks.
Dorsey's replicas 'can' be found, but you'll have to have an expanded wallet - hell, you had to have one when he first made them.
As to Randall - good luck with that, as they have ab-so-lute-ly zero interest in making any one-offs, and unless yours is being shipped to an APO, you'll have an AARP card before you get one, and C&WAS will be but a dim memory, but keep us posted.
Scouts Out!
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When I was in Germany, I ordered one from Atlanta Cutlery. I was impressed with the knife until I took a swing with it to see how it felt and accidentally hit the mirror in my bedroom. The Mirror did not break, but the tip of the knife actually bent. Guess the steel wasn't the best, and the mirror was more durable than I thought.