Punitive expedition uniform question

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Hi Guys,

I need some help PLEASE  I'm putting together a punitive expedition cavalry uniform & just about have everything
i need but here in Australia it's a bit harder trying to get information on what foot wear I need Some photos I have found on the web show leggings both canvas & leather & some have boots on so what's right The rank I'm looking at is Sgt - Major.
If you can help me out it would be greatly appreciated. & then if you can tell me where I might find what I need - reproduction of course as I wouldn't fit in anything made back then 

thanks again & all the best.
JD

[Capt.Virgil Russo]

Marshal, you can't go wrong with any of the selections listed. I believe the most common footwear used by the Cavalry EM were the marching shoe/leather legging combo but canvas leggings or boots would be appropriate as well, paticularly for a Sgt. Major.

As you can see by my avatar, the Punitive Expedtion is my favorite period. 

[FTrooper]

The Capt. is right.

One of my two main focuses in historical research is WW1 era US Cavalry (the other is 1850 US Army).  Regulations call for shoes (marching shoes) and leather leggings. 

However, I have alot of pictures and canvas leggings are also common (1898, 1907, 1910 patterns).  Even the so called M1917 Pattern with the leather insides can be seen in images from as early as 1902 and do so up in Mexico in 1916.

You also do see some private purchase boots on all ranks and the patterns vary greatly.  Like British WW1 officer boots.  I have pics of everything from full lace (like US M1931) to full pull on.  Laced insteps and even a couple of guys wearing the full laced with the a buckle cuff at the very top!  I have one picture of a guy wearing cowboy boots, but I think it is more of a staged silly photo.

Sources would include What Price Glory for the shoe.  He also does a M1910 leather legging and M1917 Canvas.
Schipprfabrik does the M1910 Canvas
Coon Creek Old West does an inexpensive legging that works for the M1898
Lawrence Ordnance down under does a Light Horse Legging that is very close to the US M1907 leather
Civilwarboots does a wide range of footwear, including several of the private purchase versions mentioned.

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

WHY

http://www.lighthorse.org.au/resources/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct-6.-pictorial-dress-ww1

[Capt.Virgil Russo]

WHY

http://www.lighthorse.org.au/resources/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct-6.-pictorial-dress-ww1

Because they were after Pancho Villa  

I caught a program recently on the ALHA, pretty cool stuff.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Pancho Villa; - is so Mexican!

Australia has a grand tradition of its ownthat is contemorary with the punitive expedition.  The LIGHT HORSEMEN which began during the Boer War and saw it greatest flowering at Beersheeba in 1917 against the Turkish army in WWI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_World_War_I#Australia_and_New_Zealand

[cpt dan blodgett]

The Capt. is right.

 I have one picture of a guy wearing cowboy boots, but I think it is more of a staged silly photo.

Different war but check out the guy second from right (my dad)

http://www.301bg.com/Varner_Lee_A.cfm

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Thanks for the help Guys.

Sir Charles, already got light horse covered 

Just want something that I could get away wearing at cowboy shoots every now & then.

thanks again.

JD

[Capt.Virgil Russo]

The Capt. is right.

 I have one picture of a guy wearing cowboy boots, but I think it is more of a staged silly photo.

Different war but check out the guy second from right (my dad)

http://www.301bg.com/Varner_Lee_A.cfm

That's very cool! 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Thanks for the help Guys.

Sir Charles, already got light horse covered 

Just want something that I could get away wearing at cowboy shoots every now & then.

thanks again.

JD

Thats good!  I figure one should honour his own country before another one.  I plan to portray either a Militiaman of the Riel rebellion (1885) or a Strathcona of Bullers Column (1900)

[cpt dan blodgett]

I purchased a pair of brown corcoran jump boots for my Wildbunch Uniform.  They look really close to 1905 marching shoes.  They are 2 inches too tall to be a really good match, but with pants over boots or leggings who can tell.

[FTrooper]

And those rubber soles are alot more friendly on various surfaces than the leather! 

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[Niederlander]

Excellent point!  I've found leather soles on dry grass is just plain dangerous.  I'm all in favor of historical accuracy, but not at the expense of basic safety.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I find a rubber heel is a must with leather soles on any smooth surface.  Actually way back when, if boots came with a leather heel.  Dad would get a rubber one before he wore them.  He was ok with leather soles.

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

I purchased a pair of brown corcoran jump boots for my Wildbunch Uniform.  They look really close to 1905 marching shoes.  They are 2 inches too tall to be a really good match, but with pants over boots or leggings who can tell.

I looked at these.  I'd bet a good cobbler could shorten the top by 2" for a reasonable price and that would not alter the utility of the shoe.  If you can't find a cobbler, then a saddlemaker could probably do it.

That may not be necessary, given your usuage, but it's an option.   

SQQ

[pony express]

I got a pair of these last month from a local shoestore, for $89, not the MSRP of $280..
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Wing-Mens-Iron-Ranger/dp/B0032UYNKI
If they had been in black, I'd wear them with my SAW outfit, even though the cap toe isn't right for that. They look a lot like the early WW2 shoe, to me, except for the shiney eyelets. Wasn't the punitive expedition era shoe rough out leather?

Edit....forgot to paste link...

[Capt.Virgil Russo]

I got a pair of these last month from a local shoestore, for $89, not the MSRP of $280..
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Wing-Mens-Iron-Ranger/dp/B0032UYNKI
If they had been in black, I'd wear them with my SAW outfit, even though the cap toe isn't right for that. They look a lot like the early WW2 shoe, to me, except for the shiney eyelets. Wasn't the punitive expedition era shoe rough out leather?

Edit....forgot to paste link...

I love those boots! Don't love the price, however. You got a deal.

[Niederlander]

If they're brown, they should pass fairly well for the 1904 Marching Shoe.  I wanted some, but they evidently don't make them in 15's!  I didn't want to pay the suggested price either.  As far as color, you can alway dye brown boots black.

[pony express]

They might someday get dyed black, but for now they look too nice as is. At least untill they get a bit more wear on them, they're my "nice" shoes. The shoe store where I got them sells a lot of shoes that have been returned and repaired, or some kind of blemish. This was the only pair like it, and I can't see ANYTHING wrong,. I guess I just got lucky.

[FTrooper]

I will say one thing about the Red Wings, other than I am surprised to see them again...as for awhile they had stopped this style. MANY moons ago, when I first started doing WW2and Civil War, there was no 50th Anniversary of WW2 nor a Saving Private What's His Name...thus there were no WW2 repros yet (except for a few German items).  These Red Wings were the only thing close to US boots unless you found real ones in your size (good luck).  I will tell you, you will get $300 worth of wear and tear out of them, that is for sure!  I hated when mine died (I wore them for everything) and at the time I couldn't replace them!

Chris Fischer
F-Troop