Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: Five Bullets on September 10, 2017, 04:44:56 PM
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About a month ago I dug out my small percussion revolver collection and decided to either sell 'em or shoot 'em. Well, I started reacquainting myself with them and am glad that I did. Each week I have been taking a different pistol to the range and making some good old black powder smoke.
Now to my current situation/question. I just received a new Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon(2015 production) from Midway. Disassembled it, cleaned it and lubed with Ballistol.
Then I set about to see which size balls to use and this is what I have found:
1. .451 balls are too loose as expected
2. .454 - These are too loose too. Specifically, the ball will stick to the loading lever after attempting to seat it, and the shaved ring of lead indicates only partial or loose contact with the chamber.
3. .457 balls seem to be a good fit. Snug while seating but not hard to seat, ball does not stick to lever, and a nice un-broken ring of lead shaved from the ball.
So is the .457 ball okay to use or will it create excessive pressure as it passes through the bore?
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About a month ago I dug out my small percussion revolver collection and decided to either sell 'em or shoot 'em. Well, I started reacquainting myself with them and am glad that I did. Each week I have been taking a different pistol to the range and making some good old black powder smoke.
Now to my current situation/question. I just received a new Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon(2015 production) from Midway. Disassembled it, cleaned it and lubed with Ballistol.
Then I set about to see which size balls to use and this is what I have found:
1. .451 balls are too loose as expected
2. .454 - These are too loose too. Specifically, the ball will stick to the loading lever after attempting to seat it, and the shaved ring of lead indicates only partial or loose contact with the chamber.
3. .457 balls seem to be a good fit. Snug while seating but not hard to seat, ball does not stick to lever, and a nice un-broken ring of lead shaved from the ball.
So is the .457 ball okay to use or will it create excessive pressure as it passes through the bore?
Sure it is OK. Once you have squished it into the chamber the ball is then chamber size regardless of the diameter when you started.
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Thank you!
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Use what fits best. Both of my Dragoons (2nd Mod and Transition) and Walker use .454's. Tried .457's once but PIA to seat. Most of the Uberti's I've read reports on use .454's, but there can be exceptions with everything.
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Use what fits best. Both of my Dragoons (2nd Mod and Transition) and Walker use .454's. Tried .457's once but PIA to seat. Most of the Uberti's I've read reports on use .454's, but there can be exceptions with everything.
Thanks for your reply.
Just tried my Uberti Walker and got the same results as I did with the Dragoon, i.e. looks like they both require the .457's.
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Both of my Uberti Dragoons--2nd Models of recent manufacture--load very nicely with .454s. They also shave a lead ring when doing so. I have been satisfied with the accuracy of the .454s and as I cast them have a large supply so have not had the opportunity to try .457s.
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When I got my Uberti Walker in 1975, I slugged the bore and found I needed a ball larger than .457". So I lapped out my Lee ball mould to cast a .459" ball, and reamed the mouths of my chambers so remove the smallest amount of lead. In fact these balls sort of just swage into the chamber mouths. But the pistol shoots 2" groups offhand at twenty-five yards...now.
So slug your bore, and make your pistol shoot ammo that is suitable.
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This is strange because my 3rd model Uberti uses .454 balls and cuts a nice lead ring. just for curiosity I dropped a .451 ball on the chamber mouth and it seated with thumb pressure with less that a half of the ball in the chamber mouth. I did not try shoving it in deeper but apparently it would seal the chamber nicely. the I know the.451 balls work well in a pair of '60 Armies made by Uberti and also in a couple of Pietta .44's I have use of.
Puzzled
Bunk
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You may have a slight overhang inside the face of the rammer that needs chamfering. One of my Walkers used to lift the balls out of the chamber after ramming. A .457 might have had enough friction fit to overcome the lip inside the rammer face but I took a Dremel (small tapered stone) and removed it and no more ball lift. It liked .454 balls. I have found that .454s worked well in both my Uberti Walkers and my 3rd Mod Dragoon. Si IMO first remove any inside lip in the rammer face before you go to the .457s. There is no big deal in using a larger ball but I like to have the same size fit all my guns and the .454 has been the one for me.
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Hello the camp
OK now I am not as puzzled as before. I doubted that Uberti would have a different chamber diameter for the Dragoon as opposed to all the other .44 caliber guns they make. With the originals perhaps that is true, but for the replicas that is not likely.
I took the cylinder from my 3.5 rd. model Dragoon (custom cut fluted cylinder) Uberti date stamped CM and gently, with the rammer, pushed a .451 ball into a chamber, then pulled it out and did the same thing in the same chamber with a .454 ball both cast with pure lead in Lee molds. i did not have any .457 balls to test...sorry about that.
Both balls showed a nice belt around ther circumference. The .454 was a bit bigger but not outstandingly so. Both would make a tight seal of the chamber.
The chambers on all my guns have a very worthwhile modification for ease of loading. Every cylinder on every gun .44 or .36 have had the sharp edge of each chamber cut with a reamer at a steep angle just a tiny bit. That way when loading the ball is swaged into the chamber and is not damaged by shaving off that little ring of lead.
A suggestion I found on the “GeoJohn” web site so copy and paste you know the drill.
http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps1.html
Eight pages especially for the beginner but worthwhile for any practitioner of the Dark Art.
At least that is my personal observation so please feel free to disagree, taunt, bully, or otherwise be obnoxious.
Yr’ Obt’ Svt’
Bunk
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It's a really good day to be "Abby Noxious" ::)
I have nothing really earthshaking to add ..... except ..... be really REALLY careful about a bevel on the chamber face. A little goes a long way. Too much bevel and you'll wind up really fouling the Arbor. I will not admit to exactly how I know this fact :o
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CM
It is called "experience" something you get right after you needed it.
Cordially
Bunk
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You may have a slight overhang inside the face of the rammer that needs chamfering. One of my Walkers used to lift the balls out of the chamber after ramming. A .457 might have had enough friction fit to overcome the lip inside the rammer face but I took a Dremel (small tapered stone) and removed it and no more ball lift. It liked .454 balls. I have found that .454s worked well in both my Uberti Walkers and my 3rd Mod Dragoon. Si IMO first remove any inside lip in the rammer face before you go to the .457s. There is no big deal in using a larger ball but I like to have the same size fit all my guns and the .454 has been the one for me.
My apologies for taking so long to return to this thread, but I wanted to play with the Dragoon some more before I reported back.
I checked the rammer and it definitely had a slight overhand. I polished the face of the rammer and that took care of the issue of the .454 balls being lifted after seating. And it also appears the the .454 balls will be okay. After seating several more of them the shaved ring is small but present none the less.
Now the Dragoon and a couple of other pistols are off to Mike at Goons Gun Works for a work-over.
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I use .457 balls in my Walkers. Why? Because if you shoot 45gs or up of BP you WILL have forward movement of the balls in the unfired cylinders.
wM1
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I use .457 balls in my Walkers. Why? Because if you shoot 45gs or up of BP you WILL have forward movement of the balls in the unfired cylinders.
wM1
Thanks for the heads-up wildman1. It just so happens that 45 grains is what I shoot in my Walker and have settled on the .457 in it too. I liked the shaved ring that the .457's gave me over the ring that I got with .454's, but had not considered the forward movement of the balls.
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Take a good look at the two offerings from Big Lube. They are lube sized by you sized to chamber specs and fit your chambers just fine and carry all the lube you would ever want captive in the huge lube groves. Then, all you have to do is charge the chambers with the black powder of your choice and seat the boolits. Pronto presto, you have a cylinder ready to cap and shoot and no worries about fit.
DD-MDA
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If the ram drops on ya when you shoot good loads change to 2F rather than 3F helps quite a bit.
wM1