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31
The Darksider's Den / Re: How did we get these "Calibers"?
« Last post by Hair Trigger Jim on May 01, 2024, 04:34:12 PM »
Quote from: Mako on May 01, 2024, 03:33:47 PM
Dave,
Marlin got their first patent for a lever action rifle in 1879.  Colt's had been producing "Frontier Six Shooter" that were marked .44-40 two years previous to that.  I'm sure Marlin didn't want the 44 WCF, but Colt's already had given the cartridge a second name in 1877.  Ids there some earlier Marlin in .44-40 that I am not aware of?

~Mako

Mako, are you sure Colt actually marked any guns .44-40 in the 1800s?  I'm aware of the Colt Frontier Six Shooter barrel markings and the little. 44CF mark sometimes found on the trigger guard, but I didn't think Colt marked any 1st gen SAAs .44-40.  But I'm not terribly experienced and am mostly parroting those who know more.
32
The Darksider's Den / Re: How did we get these "Calibers"?
« Last post by Mako on May 01, 2024, 03:48:27 PM »
Quote from: FriscoCounty on April 30, 2024, 07:28:59 PM
I went through some of my old paper references. The .38 Long was introduced in 1875. It was avalable as both a heeled bullet with a 0.879 case (130 gr bullet 15 gr BP 770 fps) and as an internally lubed bullet with a 1.017" case (150 gr bullet 18 grain BP 770 fps) both with the same overall length (1.324"). 

The 1878 UMC catalog lists the 38 Short adapted to Colt's B.L. Police Revolver and the 38 Long adapted to Colt's Navy Revolver.  Both are heeled, C.F. cartridges.  The 38 short had a 0.765" case. 

My guess is that only Colt produced the internally lubed bullet and UMC produced the heeled bullet, hence the differentiation between the .38 Long and .38 Long (Colt's).  This would fit in with Colt and the .41 cartridge used in the Thunderer.  It was rifled for the heeled cartridge, but Colt stopped production of the heeled cartridge and only produced the internally lubed version for it.
Frisco,
Yes that is correct, 1875 for the .38 Long, and as you said it was in both flavors.  However Colt's was converting Model '51s and '61s to .38 Colt in 1873.  The Navy sent over 3,000 of them to be converted.  I believe those were the .88" length case.

People are easily confused by markings and not paying attention (or knowing the specifications of things like chambers).  Colt's was bad about marking everything .38 Colt no matter the actual cartridge.  Shorter .88" cases, true 1.03 Long Colt cases, heeled bullets of Ø.375 diameter and internal bullets of Ø.358.  They also had Rimfire cartridges  and Central Fire cartridges.  All were marked .38 Colt from what I have read.  I saw a .38 Rimfire once but I can't remember for the life of me how it was marked for the cartridge type.  If I had to guess I would say it simply was stamped. .38 Colt.  I'll look at my conversion book later maybe it has a picture of one.

~Mako
33
The Darksider's Den / Re: How did we get these "Calibers"?
« Last post by Mako on May 01, 2024, 03:33:47 PM »
Quote from: Dave T on May 01, 2024, 11:39:22 AM
Mako,

I had a LEO friend (he was with the PD, I was with the SO) who called the 40 S&W the "38-40 Short, Straight, Rimless, Smokeless". Try stamping that on your duty weapon...lol.

As for the 44-40 designation, I read somewhere that name came from Marlin when they introduced their new short action lever rifle in that chambering. There was no way they were going to stamp "44 WCF" on their rifles/carbines so they came up with the 44-40 name. They even loaded their version with 215g bullets, not the 200g RNFP of the Winchester cartridge. I did in fact read that in a real book, not on the Wicki thing.  (smile)

Dave
Dave,
Marlin got their first patent for a lever action rifle in 1879.  Colt's had been producing "Frontier Six Shooter" that were marked .44-40 two years previous to that.  I'm sure Marlin didn't want the 44 WCF, but Colt's already had given the cartridge a second name in 1877.  Ids there some earlier Marlin in .44-40 that I am not aware of?

~Mako
34
Spencer Shooting Society / Re: Annealing the brass?
« Last post by Trailrider on May 01, 2024, 03:03:43 PM »
The technique I used was to fill a pan with water coming half-way up the length of the shortened .50-70 brass, with the pan on a cheap lazysusan. I used a propane torch played on the brass sticking above the water. When the brass discolored significantly, I tipped the case into the water, quenching it. Never had a problem with the brass, and the head remained the correct hardness.
35
The Longbranch / Re: gunoholic
« Last post by Major 2 on May 01, 2024, 02:29:22 PM »
S&W had a Spring Rebate on some Models, it ended Apr. 30.
You can still send in your photo of the QR Code on the Box and a photo of LGS Bill of Sale, that deadline is May 30th.
The Rebate is $50 on my new J-frame, I emailed mine in on the 23rd it was approved, and I got the VISA Gift debit card in the mail on the 30th.  :D



36
Cas City - Forum Support & Comments / Re: Josey wales coat
« Last post by Big Mark on May 01, 2024, 01:19:05 PM »
Thanks so much for taking time to reply.
37
The Darksider's Den / Re: How did we get these "Calibers"?
« Last post by Dave T on May 01, 2024, 11:39:22 AM »
Mako,

I had a LEO friend (he was with the PD, I was with the SO) who called the 40 S&W the "38-40 Short, Straight, Rimless, Smokeless". Try stamping that on your duty weapon...lol.

As for the 44-40 designation, I read somewhere that name came from Marlin when they introduced their new short action lever rifle in that chambering. There was no way they were going to stamp "44 WCF" on their rifles/carbines so they came up with the 44-40 name. They even loaded their version with 215g bullets, not the 200g RNFP of the Winchester cartridge. I did in fact read that in a real book, not on the Wicki thing.  (smile)

Dave
38
Spencer Shooting Society / Re: Annealing the brass?
« Last post by El Supremo on May 01, 2024, 09:59:33 AM »
Hello:

There is helpful annealing info in a recent N-SSA Forum Post by "Carolina Reb" within a Thread: "New Replica Spencer owner has questions" by "Eterry, approx 15APR24.

I prefer not to post links to other Forums, and suggest the N-SSA Form's Small Arms section be reviewed for the Thread.

Carolina Reb shares that when annealing short, cut-down cases, to not anneal with flame because of heat migration into the base.  Instead, anneal with molten lead.  I use molten salts, water quench to stop heat migration, and have had no case life issues.

Thanks to Carolina Reb on N-SSA, Arizona Trooper, here.
Most respectfully.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny



39
Cas City - Forum Support & Comments / Re: Josey wales coat
« Last post by Major 2 on May 01, 2024, 09:56:14 AM »
There was someone a few years back that had made or had one made, sorry I don't recall who.
But you might try Jean @ James Country Mercantile. 

https://www.jamescountry.com/
40
Cas City - Forum Support & Comments / Re: Josey wales coat
« Last post by RRio on May 01, 2024, 09:04:47 AM »
I did a search of the membership list for "Tusac Jack" and we do not have anyone by that name or even close. Sorry.
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