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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 04, 2021, 10:18:01 PM

Title: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 04, 2021, 10:18:01 PM
I work part time at a gunshop, and we just got consignments on 4 old Colt .38s.  Two 1895 last patent, one 1905 last patent, and one 2nd Model Officers 1905 patent in .38 Special.

All are original and intact.  Three are ordinary, so no problem with values, but one is a gem.  On the backstrap of the grip is engraved: "Major John Chase COMDG 1st Squadron Cavalry Nat Guard Colo". Second line "Presented By The Denver City Troop 1897"

He is real and has quite a presence on the internet at least.  This one is really clean, probably 70%+ and the seller is asking $1400. Is he high or low?  All four we will probably auction online at some point.  As I load heeled .38 Colt for my conversion, I am tempted to buy, but not sure on the price he wants.  Thanks in advance.

This is a great job,  Last week I picked up a model 1902 vintage Smith & Wesson Military and police (serial number puts it at 1903.

(https://i.imgur.com/RZuNAl8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iOq4nTl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ejBICVN.jpg)
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: River City John on September 04, 2021, 10:32:24 PM
My only thought are how many of them are floating around?

We can go halfsies and take joint custody. I'll keep it May through October and you can guard it the other six months . . . ;)
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Robert Swartz on September 04, 2021, 11:07:36 PM
I work part time at a gunshop, and we just got consignments on 4 old Colt .38s.  Two 1895 last patent, one 1905 last patent, and one 2nd Model Officers 1905 patent in .38 Special.

All are original and intact.  Three are ordinary, so no problem with values, but one is a gem.  On the backstrap of the grip is engraved: "Major John Chase COMDG 1st Squadron Cavalry Nat Guard Colo". Second line "Presented By The Denver City Troop 1897"

He is real and has quite a presence on the internet at least.  This one is really clean, probably 70%+ and the seller is asking $1400. Is he high or low?  All four we will probably auction online at some point.  As I load heeled .38 Colt for my conversion, I am tempted to buy, but not sure on the price he wants.  Thanks in advance.

This is a great job,  Last week I picked up a model 1902 vintage Smith & Wesson Military and police (serial number puts it at 1903.

(https://i.imgur.com/RZuNAl8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iOq4nTl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ejBICVN.jpg)


.....considering the gun appears to have a traceable history. Price does seem a tad high but what do I know. Guns like this appeal to either guys like us that want to use them or collectors that will lock them in cases for the next 20-30 years. A guns value is either what you can afford or are willing pay. Neither being mutually exclusive, lol.....
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tascosa Joe on September 05, 2021, 07:44:02 AM
John Chase is real.  He was a Doctor, Collage professor, and eventually became the Adjutant General of Colorado.  This pistol was probably given to him when he was appointed as the Commander of the 1st Squadron Cavalry.  As the AG he took part in the miner strikes at Cripple Creek and other places in the early 1900's
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Robert Swartz on September 05, 2021, 09:46:57 AM
.....just curious, what kind of price range are we talking of for the three "ordinary" pistols? Enquiring minds want to know.....
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 05, 2021, 09:59:53 AM
I will let you guys know.  Right now they came into the shop for valuation, so not the shop's to sell yet.  The other one with the .375" bore will be lower than the 1905 and the 2nd Model Officer's, though.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 05, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
When they are available, I'll post pics (minus the one that I buy).  It seems right for you guys to have first chances!  You will appreciate them more than some of the clods that come into the shop!
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Major 2 on September 05, 2021, 11:51:42 AM
Imposable to offer a value without seeing them.... Military marked seems to bring a higher valuation
Current Covid pricing has some lofty numbers

The John Chase gun should see 4 figures ,  might well get $1400,  assuming it is legit
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 05, 2021, 12:59:13 PM
I have a feeling it is legit.  IIRC, it is from estate of an old guy who has had it from years.  Usually counterfeiters don't do obscure people.  If it was someone like Bucky O'Neill, I would be more suspicious.  The pistol is absolutely correct and original, and was bought because he liked early Colt double actions...  We had to oil it up to find the inscription.  The widow did not know about the inscription, we discovered it when we cleaned them up and checkedc function.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 05, 2021, 01:46:00 PM
I load .38 Colt heeled bullets for my 1851 Kirst Conversion.  I could also use .38 Special hollow base wadcutters. since it has the bored through heeled bullet cylinder.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tascosa Joe on September 05, 2021, 02:15:16 PM
Bernie, I sent you a PM.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 05, 2021, 06:06:21 PM
If we do get the consignment, I think I feel the need to buy one of these.  If not the engraved one, maybe the 1905 to go with my 1903 S&W.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: pony express on September 06, 2021, 09:31:42 PM
TL, when you check the function, be sure that when the trigger is fully pulled back, as at the instant of firing, that the crane is still tight to the frame. The first Colts DA Army revolvers rotated the cylinder counter clockwise, and therefore the hand is trying to push the cylinder away from the frame, and any slight looseness in the cylinder latch area will let it fire with the cylinder misaligned to the barrel. The one I have has this problem, the cylinder seems to lock up "like a bank vault", but it's misaligned and spits lots of lead out the left side. Of course, I discovered this after replacing the barrel, because of the cracked forcing cone-most likely caused by the misalignment.

Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 06, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Thank you!  I will check that, for sure!!!
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Major 2 on September 07, 2021, 06:11:16 AM
Not to Highjack TL's thread , but add to the interest of inscribed guns.

New Army 1903. Shipped to Hartley and Graham just three weeks before it's presentation.
Brigadier General Herbert S. Tanner was a the commander of the First division of the RI Militia from 1902 through 1912. In 1902 He lead troops to quell a labor riot of railroad workers in Pawtucket, RI known as "Fitzgerald's Rebellion"
As a Major, he was in charge of training the new volunteers of the RIM for the Spanish American War at Camp Quonset. Later to become Quonset Naval Air Station, home of the Sea Bee's.


from a private collection
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on September 22, 2021, 02:03:09 PM
Still have not heard back from the owner if he wants to sell.  In the meantime, while I was waiting, I bought a minty Browning P-35 HP that walked in the door.....
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: smoke on September 24, 2021, 07:50:34 PM
Still have not heard back from the owner if he wants to sell.  In the meantime, while I was waiting, I bought a minty Browning P-35 HP that walked in the door.....

Why I will never work at a gun shop.  I would owe them money every week.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Major 2 on September 25, 2021, 04:18:21 AM
Why I will never work at a gun shop.  I would owe them money every week.

Yep !   spot on resemble that remark  :D

That'd be terrible .... Oh wait !  it happens !  I often quote for my friendly LGS , and some will follow me home.

 
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on October 23, 2021, 09:11:56 AM
The guy finally agreed to sell me the 1895 with engraving (for much less than he first quoted).  Awesome.  I have some heeled .38 long Colt I loaded for my Kirst Konverted 1851, so I will take it to the range tomorrow and shoot a few rounds.

Sadly, he decided to keep the rest.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on October 24, 2021, 09:23:41 AM
I have a 38 Colt heeled bullet die set from Bernie at Old West Bullet molds.  The 140 grain I use is from Bear Creek Bullets and is moly coated.

(https://i.imgur.com/gI563Yg.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/kP00f1Q.jpg)

I also load hollow base wadcutters in the 38 Colt case, sticking out about 1/4".

(https://i.imgur.com/LHtNLaf.jpg)
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tascosa Joe on October 24, 2021, 11:30:51 AM
I am glad you got it.  If I had it I probably would donate to the Colorado Military Forces Museum.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on October 24, 2021, 07:27:14 PM
Took it to the range and fired some rounds.  It loved the heeled bullets, and hit POA/POI at 25 yards with them.  It absolutely HATED the HBWCs!  I think because They were loaded with Trail Boss (lower velocity and impulse, and probably did not obdurate), rather than Unique or Bullseye.  It was fun shooting the heeled bullets!
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on October 24, 2021, 07:31:02 PM
I am glad you got it.  If I had it I probably would donate to the Colorado Military Forces Museum.

While I did not have to pay the $1400 he originally wanted, I still paid too much for it to end up donating it to a Museum I would never see.  While I am comfortable in my retirement, I'm not flush enough to be that altruistic....
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tascosa Joe on November 02, 2021, 04:45:01 PM
Bernie:
I sent you a PM on Sunday evening.  Did you receive it?
Joe
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Robert Swartz on November 02, 2021, 04:57:20 PM
.....here's a 1901 I recently acquired.
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on November 08, 2021, 10:30:59 AM
Bernie:
I sent you a PM on Sunday evening.  Did you receive it?
Joe

Nope, I was out of town.  I'll check now
Title: Re: 1896 Army-Navy Colt .38 question
Post by: Baltimore Ed on November 08, 2021, 11:44:33 AM
Here’s my 3 Colts. The top one still has fire blue on the trigger and hammer. Traded a Army Special for it.