M1892 Winchester

[Dirty Dick]

I sure wish someone would reproduce the M92, M53, or M65 in .25-20. 

[Black River Smith]

I do not mean to be mean by this question but... What good is the 25-20 cartridge in any large size rifle?

Now, I do not hunt, just shoot and enjoyed CAS because I really like all the Old West guns.  But, I do not understand why they created the 25-20, (stated this before elsewhere - even the 32-20).

I just would like understand the attraction to such a small cartridge & that an 22cal could do the same thing in hunting situations (I would think).  I have never held a 32-20 or 25-20 cartridge, just seen photos but something that only holds 20grains of BP.   I thought they went from 44Henry to 44-40 and then larger cartridges for more powder.  Why then go backwards in the '90's?  Other than youth sales.

To me this is more history and then the present personal attraction to such a cartridge.

Thanks

[Coffinmaker]

   Just Because   

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[Abilene]

Sleeve it! 

[treebeard]

I Shoot mine just for the joy of it. I believe it came out originally to be a strictly small game cartridge for those who did not need full power loads  that was inexpensive to shoot and reload. I am thinking farmers and even cow hands needing to put rabbits, turkeys and other critters in the pot or put down a herd animal or drive off predators.

[greyhawk]

I do not mean to be mean by this question but... What good is the 25-20 cartridge in any large size rifle?

Now, I do not hunt, just shoot and enjoyed CAS because I really like all the Old West guns.  But, I do not understand why they created the 25-20, (stated this before elsewhere - even the 32-20).

I just would like understand the attraction to such a small cartridge & that an 22cal could do the same thing in hunting situations (I would think).  I have never held a 32-20 or 25-20 cartridge, just seen photos but something that only holds 20grains of BP.   I thought they went from 44Henry to 44-40 and then larger cartridges for more powder.  Why then go backwards in the '90's?  Other than youth sales.

To me this is more history and then the present personal attraction to such a cartridge.

Thanks

They had their place - particularly between the wars when everything was scarce - I had an old mate in the mountains years ago, he was the dingo (wild dog) trapper for a patch of wild country on the eastern escarpment about 200miles long - used to go off with a packhorse and traps for six weeks at the time - told me the 25/20 was his favourite rifle those days - this bloke was a crack shot, seen him do amazing things with a BRNO 22 in his later years but he said you wanted a bit more than a 22 for dogs (scalp bonus was his pay)   

[Yeso Bill]

I traded an old cowboy out of his back in the early 1970s.  It was a 92 Winchester rifle, take down and I killed quite a few coyotes with it.  Loved it.  Like a dummy, I let a collector talk me out of it and have regretted it ever since.
 
Varmint rifles had to start somewhere.  I figure they were marketed at the homesteader as a pest / small game rifle.  Way more punch than a 22 but way less recoil than a 30-30.  Come to think about it, my Grandfather was a homesteader and had saddle ring carbines in 25-20 and 30-30.  (they are still in the family) 

I believe the 25-20 is a necked down 32-20.  25-20 vs 32-20?  This looks like a Chevy vs. Ford thing.  The 25-20 is shooting an 86 gr. bullet at 1460 fps.  (Remington ad)  Quite a bit more cartridge than the 22 LR.   

Billy

[Dirty Dick]

Let me explain my fondness for .25-20; about 55 years ago I traded for a used M92 Winchester, 24" barrel, that someone had installed a brand new Winchester round barrel!  This was the second rifle I cast bullets for, the first was an El Tigre M92 copy in .44-40. I mounted a new Lyman tang sight (about $20.00 IIRC), Lyman 85gr 257312 bullet sized .257 with Lyman Ideal graphite lube over SR 4759 powder, at 75 yards off the bench it made one little ragged hole for 5 shots, about 1/2"!  That rifle would SHOOT! More than a few old timers swore the .25-20 was good for deer if the heart was struck. I don't think I would attempt that. SO, if Uberti or ? were to offer a reproduction .25-20 I would buy at least one to play with.  A Low Wall would be perfect ! 

[Black River Smith]

Thanks for all the info.

So from the velocities listed above it does look like a good cartridge.  Therefore, I went back to one copy of "Cartridges of the World" to see what they stated and what was loaded.  From this reference the 32/20 was created in about 1883 therefore it was most definitely loaded with BP.  They also stated that the 25/20 was a necked down 32/20 that was created between 1893 to 1895 specifically in the 1892WIN.

This then makes me question whether the powder was BP or smokeless for that 20grain load.  The book does not state what the originals were loaded with, just FL (for factory load) at such and such velocity.  I have to believe both were BP originals.  I cannot believe that 25/20 casing could hold 20 grain of smokeless, much less still be in safe pressures.  The smokeless loads listed in the reference are only like 7 - 11 grains whereas the 32/20 does list loads up to 15 - 17 grains depending of powders.

Still both do look like adequate hunting velocities depending on size of game used on.

Thanks for the info, again, I learned something that never caught my attention before.

[cactus joe]

Let me explain my fondness for .25-20; about 55 years ago I traded for a used M92 Winchester, 24" barrel, that someone had installed a brand new Winchester round barrel!  This was the second rifle I cast bullets for, the first was an El Tigre M92 copy in .44-40. I mounted a new Lyman tang sight (about $20.00 IIRC), Lyman 85gr 257312 bullet sized .257 with Lyman Ideal graphite lube over SR 4759 powder, at 75 yards off the bench it made one little ragged hole for 5 shots, about 1/2"!  That rifle would SHOOT! More than a few old timers swore the .25-20 was good for deer if the heart was struck. I don't think I would attempt that. SO, if Uberti or ? were to offer a reproduction .25-20 I would buy at least one to play with.  A Low Wall would be perfect ! 

I believe the largest buck shot in the US (The Jordan Buck) was shot with a .25-20. Can't remember if it was a typical or non typical. think it took 2 shots though. But hit in the right place it will take deer.

[Rattlesnake Slim]

I have, and regularly shoot, a 32 WCF Winchester 1892 made in 1897. I take it out to a couple of SASS matches a year and shoot the last one or two stages with it. With a full case of FFFG, it rings the steel targets with enough authority that I wouldn't want to get in the way of that little slug of lead.

I think the 32 WCF was an all-purpose cartridge for the frontier settler's homestead. It will kill medium sized game (they hunted regularly due to no refrigeration), and would probably make most savages look for a less well armed cabin to pillage. As stated above, it also maximized their precious supplies of lead and powder, easily reloaded with a Winchester or Ideal reloading tool.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I have a 28" barreled Winchester Model 92 in 32WCF that holds 18 rounds, and is extremely accurate with 18 grains of FFFg black powder.  Cheap and easy to reload.  I'd take that over a 22LR any day.