NWMP Rear sight swap

[gmkmd]

Has anybody tried changing the rear sight on the Cimarron 1876 NWMP carbine?  Here’s why I ask; the original NWMP carbine apparently had a ladder-type military rear sight (very similar to that on the model 1873 trapdoor Springfield), but the Cimarron version just has a regular rifle rear sight.  Now, the Chaparral version of the NWMP carbine, does have the military-style rear sight, so some may say, just buy the Chaparral version.  But, I’ve heard so many guys say that the Chaparral guns are junk.  So, my thought was to get the Cimarron version, and change the rear sight to make it more authentic.  Why, you say?  Because I’m into historical British and Canadian guns.
Anyway, just wondering if anybody has thought about or tried this.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

A bit of trivia. The backsight you are talking about, was referred to as the "Spanish Meter Sight". The first lot of carbine delivered to the NWMP had the standard Winchester backsight. So there ya go! You are authentic. However, all the sights on the first lot were replaced by a special order of sights delivered to the force and performed by their Armourers.

I am away from my library at present, but the book is Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police 1873 - 1973.

[Coal Creek Griff]

I have an Uberti NWMP carbine and I did a little looking for a Spanish metre sight in the interest of authenticity. It has been a few years, but as I recall, they were hard to find and costly. It also mounts to the barrel with a different method, which involves drilling and tapping for a screw. I decided that the sight that came on the gun was good enough for me.

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[RattlesnakeJack]

You may want to check out this "NWMP Carbine Rear Sight" thread here in Cas City from back in 2012/13 -

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=30803.0

Buck Stinson, among others, posted some excellent information, including this composite shot of the rear sights on 4 different Model 1876's …



From left to right (according to his post) they are: 

1.  the very simple 3-range leaf sight which was on the single trial carbine first purchased by the NWMP in April 1878, and also on the first batch of 50 carbines purchased in May 1878.

2.  the adjustable "sporting" longleaf ladder sight which was on the second batch of 50 carbines purchased in March 1879,  25 carbines purchased in 1880, and 10 carbines purchased in March 1882. (His post details why this particular type of sight was made to be mounted "backwards" on the barrel.)

3.  the "Spanish Meter" sight - the NWMP had been in communication with Winchester to arrange for them to produce an "improved" carbine specifically for the Force, incorporating a stronger wrist on the buttstock, an enlarged/strengthened barrel shank on the receiver, and a graduated military-style ladder rear sight (i.e. the "Spanish Meter" sight. ) The first 300 carbines of this "New Pattern" were ordered in April 1882 ... and all M'1876 carbines acquired subsequently by the NWMP also had this rear sight.  (By the way, all of these purchases up to and including 1882 were through I.G. Baker in Fort Benton, Montana.)

4.  the fourth sight, on the far right, is Winchester's standard sporting "short leaf" rear sight which became the standard carbine rear sight on all commercial carbines from 1882.  As I understand Buck's post, this is the type of sight Cimmaron uses on its rendition of the NWMP carbine … but apparently this type was never used on any of the original NWMP 1876's ...

[RattlesnakeJack]

I have  heard the "bad press" about the Chaparral NWMP carbine, but I have one and have no complaints with it … mind you, I believe that mine is literally the sixth carbine in their production run.  (I base that on the fact that they serial numbered (or, at any rate, began with numbering) their carbines sequentially using the known/documented serial numbers of the original NWMP Winchesters … the full NWMP serial number list is included in an appendix to "Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police, 1873-1973", and my Chaparral carbine has serial number 2750, the sixth number on that list …



One thing the Chaparrals are noted for is superbly accurate barrels … I haven't shot my own competitively, very much, but I did place first with it in a local "Long Range Black Powder Cartridge Rifle" match (not super long range, mind you … steel gongs out to 300 yards) but I was competing against others using single-shot "long range" rifles. 

I always thought the reproduction Spanish Meter sight on mine was a bit "crude" …
 


 … and that the carbine might do even better shooting if I replaced the sight with a better quality sight ... so I tracked down and acquired a modern made replacement sight (possibly one of the ones Coal Creek Griff was mentioning above) but once I received it, even though the lines and edges are  "crisper", I decided that it wouldn't offer enough of an improvement over the existing sight picture to make replacing it worthwhile  … so I've still got the darn thing around here somewhere, if you might be interested ... 

As I recall, it is not blued, nor are any of the range numbers marked on it, (things I was going to have to remedy if I used it)  but I'd have to track it down to be sure.  (Just went and looked in my main "gun parts" container, and it isn't there, so I'll have to do some digging.)

[gmkmd]

Thank you very much for the info!  Especially that picture of the four different types of sights; Very informative!  It looks like the Cimarron version just comes with the standard carbine sight.  The Spanish Model sight is actually available from Numrich, but as Rattlesnake Jack mentioned, only in the white, with no markings on it, and without screws.  If I was going to go to the trouble of drilling/tapping the barrel for that sight, I think I'd sooner mount an 1873 trapdoor sight in its place as it is so similar.  I do have a Smith Enterprises ladder sight for the Marlin 1895, which is very similar to the second sight from the left.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Yep, that Numrich sight appears to be the one I got!

Another composite image (which I had posted on that earlier Cas City thread) showing an original NWMP carbine sight …



… which is indeed similar to the 1873 Springfield carbine(?) sight, assuming this is the one you mean:



Mind you, I do note that the Springfield sight has the range numbers (1 through 5) stamped on the right side of the sight base, whereas the Spanish meter sight has them on the left side, with the right side unmarked:

[gmkmd]

Yes, that's the one!

[kwilliams1876]

My Chaparral had rifling so shallow that it barely qualified as scratches, it never did shoot. I have seen others with the same malady at gun shows which is most likely the reason they are for sale.
kw