Let's Start a List: Chaparral and Uberti Production Problems

[shieldsmt]

I'd love to own a decent '76 replica........but..........after looking at 6 different rifles at 2 different gun shows, and several more on dealers racks on both ends of the country, I couldn't buy one.  Until someone like USFA builds one I can't see spending hard earned (or any other kind) of money on one of these.  It's really a shame.
ShieldsMT

[Hoof Hearted]

Chapparal 1876 45/60 early (sub 300) serial number. Most accurate shooting heap of crap I have ever had to deal with........
1. cheap,ill-fitting,ugly faux-finished box wood stocks replaced with beautiful American wallnut,hand fitted=$350.00
2.Front sight blade fell out after 4 shots,replaced with excellent Marbles for=$28.00
3.Rear sight from old Mattel toys stock...shockingly junky.=Buffalo arms contacted and sold me an authentic replica $150.00.
4.Safety disconector does not contact pad on lever.....no fix at present.
5.Excessively tight lock-up on closing,perhaps too little headspace.
6.Action was full of very stiff grease.
7.Paid an initial $1000.00 for a $500.00 gun.
8.Made at the OLD Armi-San-Marco factory home of the A.W.A. line of troubled guns.

The barrels on these rifles is the best part,they should sell them to Uberti(unless,of course,that is who they buy them from!)

Never again!!!!,I will hand -pick a Uberti next time and I am sure it will be a better peice. Doc

Doc
"4.Safety disconector does not contact pad on lever.....no fix at present."
More than likely the spring either is not sitting on the disconnector or it does not have sufficient pressure.
"5.Excessively tight lock-up on closing,perhaps too little headspace."
Try checking the headspace this way; with an empty (fired) case in the chamber and the action closed insert automotive type feeler gauge from the side between the case and boltface (you should be able to just get it in under the extractor) if a 2 or 3 thousnadths gauge won't go in then you have too little headspace. BUT Jamison brass tends to run a few thousandths smaller. Shame there is none available now. If you have sufficient headspace then there is another problem!

I feel for you and my problems were much worse!

[Grizzly Adams]

Chapparal 1876 45/60 early (sub 300) serial number. Most accurate shooting heap of crap I have ever had to deal with........
1. cheap,ill-fitting,ugly faux-finished box wood stocks replaced with beautiful American wallnut,hand fitted=$350.00
2.Front sight blade fell out after 4 shots,replaced with excellent Marbles for=$28.00
3.Rear sight from old Mattel toys stock...shockingly junky.=Buffalo arms contacted and sold me an authentic replica $150.00.
4.Safety disconector does not contact pad on lever.....no fix at present.
5.Excessively tight lock-up on closing,perhaps too little headspace.
6.Action was full of very stiff grease.
7.Paid an initial $1000.00 for a $500.00 gun.
8.Made at the OLD Armi-San-Marco factory home of the A.W.A. line of troubled guns.

The barrels on these rifles is the best part,they should sell them to Uberti(unless,of course,that is who they buy them from!)

Never again!!!!,I will hand -pick a Uberti next time and I am sure it will be a better peice. Doc

The quality and accuracy of the barrels seems to be a common theme with the Chaparral.  Makes folks more willing to put up with the rest of the issues!  Well, "the only interesting rifles are accurate rifles."  Hmmmmmm...someone said that!

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[Doc Sorebones]

Yes this rifle is accurate and therefore"interesting".I would rather have been able to purcase a gun with a Uberti action, American woodwork and sights and THAT barrel from Chapparal.
I have W.W. 45/70 brass turned-down to 45/60 and mold my own projectiles from 50/50 wheel weight and pure lead into an R.C.B.S. 350 grain gas-checked projectile sized at .459(most important dimension).Lit-up by xmp5744 over a Winchester primer produces impressive accuracy.Even though this is a very desired addition to my shooting experiences I think it  is a shame in this day and age to have to reconstruct a relatively expensive mechanism to make it perform at 1876 levals of quality and result.Doc.

[Quick Fire]

Well I have to say that I have been nothing but pleased with my Chapparal. Not only is it very accurate, it is also very smooth operating. And the wood to metal fit is also very well done.

[Doc Sorebones]

Quik Fire I am very glad for you,I'll bet that the importer had to do a lot of fancy dancin' in Italy to bring the standard up.I simply got caught with what should have been a pre-production gun.Too bad they decided to "test "the market by letting us buy the experimental pieces.I can help them by saying that apart from about everything else on their product they needn't improve the barrels!.Doc.

[Jubal Wilson]

This is the first post ever on an internet site so I hope it goes OK.
     I Recieved my Cimarron/Uberti Model 1876 in June of this year.  Right out of the box it was about as perfect as one should expect.  The first thing I did before shooting it was to replace the front sight with a combination beech sight from Montana Vintage Arms.  Next I removed the rear barrel sight and replaced it with a fitted piece of walnut so I wouldn't cut my hand on the exposed dovetail.  Then I installed a Marbles tang sight (by the way if anyone is going to do the same get the sight specified for the 1973 Winchester since the base part is further forward and leaves more room for your thumb to wrap around the wrist) since my old eyes require this.  I slugged the bore and it came out just under 0.458.  I am using the RCBS 45 - 300 GC that I buy from Frank at Mt Baldy Bullets up in Cody.  The bullets are cast of 1:20 alloy and lubed with SPG and are 0.459 inches.
     Before I received my rifle I made some cases from 45-70 brass.  When I received the rifle I found that some of the cartridges would not let me close the lever without a lot of force.  I measured the rim thickness on the ones I was having trouble with and found that any rim thicker than 0.064 would not close.  I ordered some cases from Buffalo Arms that have the rims thinned and have not had any trouble since.
     The second group of five shots fired from a bench at 50 yards and four shots in one hole 0.5 inches center to center and of course the fifth shot opened the group up to 1.875 inches.  Not bad for an old fat guy with bad eyes.  I had witnesses to.
Jubal Wilson

[john boy]

Jubal - Welcome to Winchester 76 and the excellent informative post.  Thanks for sharing.
Do have a question:  presume the 458 on the Uberti is groove diameter.  Would you happen to know the bore diameter?

[Deadeye Don]

I'd love to own a decent '76 replica........but..........after looking at 6 different rifles at 2 different gun shows, and several more on dealers racks on both ends of the country, I couldn't buy one.  Until someone like USFA builds one I can't see spending hard earned (or any other kind) of money on one of these.  It's really a shame.
ShieldsMT

You are missing out on a great reproduction firearm.  Sure, some of them have some problems, but in most cases I have seen from people reporting here on the web is that they can be fixed with relatively minimal effort.  I simply sent mine back to Taylors and they fixed it and had it back to me within a week.  Now it functions and shoots well.  One thing you need to remember is that even back pre 1900 guns would come into hardware stores with flaws that people ended up having to fix.  So in this regard the guns that we are getting are "period correct".  I hope you join us buy finding a 76 that you like and are willing to spend the money on.  By the way dont hold your breath too long waiting for USFA to make a 76 as it won't happen.  Regards.  Deadeye.

[Jubal Wilson]

john boy,
I forgot to measure the bore diameter but next time it gets above freezing in the garage I will slug it again and let you know.

[OKDEE]

John Boy,  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! 

I really like my 22" Chaparrel 1876 rifle in the 45-75 caliber.  But, not has a single shot rifle! Hah!  I have had problems from the get-go.  From headspace, to levering the round into the chamber, to poor ignition (which could be the headspace problem), and off-center primer hits, are the main issues.  I have used the Ten-X 45-75 brass and reformed Winchester 348 brass, all with equal problems with the list above.  Quite frankly, I really enjoyed working up a couple of loads, but became a bit frustrated with the rifle problems.  I pushed it back into the back part of the safe.   

For some reason, I called Nick up and explained my problems and he said to send it in with a letter of my concerns and they would fix it.  Hmmm, So I did ship it to them and they have it and as I am to understand, it should be arriving back to me this week.

I will have an update in the new year of 2008.

Sincerely,

Oklahoma Dee

 

[john boy]

Dee - Nice to hear from you and the Best New Year!
Am interested how Chris at Charter Arms reworks you rifle to clear the issues and how it functions when you receive it.

I'm down to one issue:  correcting the magazine tube from sliding past the muzzle during recoil.  Called Charter Arms and they have sent me new parts: plug - tube and tube ring.  Am going to do the 3rd repair after the Holidays to correct it.  Hopefully, it will be the last issue I have.

But have to say 3 things:
1.  Angleo, who is the principal owner of Chaparrel Arms in Italy, due to lack of quality control ... has put a real BLACK NAME on Chaparrel.  To the extent that he has driven this company into a hole and is shoveling dirt over it.  Sure would be nice for all if he would do a turn around.  If he did, I would buy another one in 40-60
2.  Correcting all the production issues has almost been a full time job
3.  Whoever is boring the barrels on these rifles did an outstanding job.  Mine is a top grade very accurate shooting rifle out to 500yds ... with Black and White powders

[Shootist]

I received a NWMP 1876 carbine in 45-75 for Christmas and had many problems with it right out of the box.  The wood was finished in a thick ugly high gloss polyurethane.  All the photos of the carbine on the chaparral site show the carbine with a satin oil looking finish??? The bolt was missing the lug and had rough grind marks on the face.  Excess head space caused missfires.  Off center primer strike. The front site was off center and the site post was pointing at about 1 O'clock.  The brass elevator hung below the receiver.  The cocking lever had so much right and left play it barely made contact with the trigger safety and the NWMP was very poorly stamped on the butt stock and barely visible.  I called charter Arms and explained the issues and they were very apologetic.  They told me the chaparral line has been a real challenge for them but they would continue to make things right with the rifles.  They even paid the FedX charges for me to ship the rifle back to them for repair.  I sent it back on  Dec. 27th.  I'll let you know how things work out and what it looks like when I get it back.

[Hobie]

I received a NWMP 1876 carbine in 45-75 for Christmas and had many problems with it right out of the box.  The wood was finished in a thick ugly high gloss polyurethane.  All the photos of the carbine on the chaparral site show the carbine with a satin oil looking finish??? The bolt was missing the lug and had rough grind marks on the face.  Excess head space caused missfires.  Off center primer strike. The front site was off center and the site post was pointing at about 1 O'clock.  The brass elevator hung below the receiver.  The cocking lever had so much right and left play it barely made contact with the trigger safety and the NWMP was very poorly stamped on the butt stock and barely visible.  I called charter Arms and explained the issues and they were very apologetic.  They told me the chaparral line has been a real challenge for them but they would continue to make things right with the rifles.  They even paid the FedX charges for me to ship the rifle back to them for repair.  I sent it back on  Dec. 27th.  I'll let you know how things work out and what it looks like when I get it back.

That doesn't even come close to matching MY NWMP SRC!  Yep, oil finish, everything properly aligned.  Mechanism functions properly.  Firing pin strike SLIGHTLY off center. 

[Forty Rod]

Took my Christmas Chaparral out today for the first time.  One problem sent it to the smith right away: the lever safety gizmo under the wrist would task Godzilla.  Must be a seventy pound spring.  Easy fix.  Other than that, it seems to be sensitive to short rounds, wouldn't load them as well as I'd have liked.  Did fine with the bullet seated out a bit.

Took some half gallon plastic jugs filled with water for targets.  First round dead on target.  If I did my job, the rifle played its part perfectly (Except for rupturing a tendon trying to squeeze that lever hard enough to fire the dang thing.

I'm happy with the overly long, muzzle heavy, everything heavy big SOB. 

It's a keeper.

[Grizzly Adams]

I'm happy with the overly long, muzzle heavy, everything heavy big SOB. 

It's a keeper.

Har!  Ain't it the truth!  Glad your new carbine is working out.

[Forty Rod]

Carbine my Aunt Fannie's fanny.  This sucker has a 26" barrel (Note: a 28" wouldn't fit in my zippered carrying cases.)

Same length barrel on my new '86 and the '86 is 2" shorter than the '76...and a pound or more lighter, too.  Even so, the '76 hangs right on the target and doesn't wobble all over the countryside.

I'll probably change the sights, but to be honest, the stock ones aren't bad, just enough different that I'm not used to them.

[larryo_1]

   You know, I been thinking all this over and even though I like my "Cimmie" 45-75,  it still has a few bugs that i have worked out and had a Chapparal that was sent back earlier but that is another story all in itself.  My point is this:  Why do all of us have to fix these things up and tidy up either minor or major problems with them when, out of the box, they should be perfect in all respects?  In my opinion, it  boils down to one thing and one thing only and that is QUALITY CONTROL and that should be at the factory not at the sales however that spot should be made aware as these come in to their store and examined before shipping to us-the consumer.  Case in point, several years ago-15 in fact, I got me a Winchester "Trapper".  I was damn well upset and should have sent it back but instead fixed it myself and sent a really, really hot letter to Winchester.  The wood to metal fit was so bad I restocked it and the barrel muzzle looked like it had been cut with a hacksaw and I recrowned it and to top it off the scrolling, on the barrel, was doublel rolled so that if you had a dozen beers it came into focus.  My point here was, again, lack of QUALITY CONTROL and that nut, at Winchester, should have been canned!

I felt that I had to get all this off my chest.  Some one may want to argue with these comments but that is what this site if for--to express ones self.  I really like my present '76 although, again, there were a few problems that were taken care that should not have been there.  So that is all I have to get off my chest.  For now at least!

[Forty Rod]

It's not just guns, larryo.  Somewhere on this wire I have a rant about everything from TVs to computer components, cars to kitchen appliances, etc.  Manufacturers keep getting by with it because the vast majority of consumers accept it.

Join me on my soapbox and we can rave against the world together.

[larryo_1]

  Forty Rod, Couldn't agree with you more.  Now we have to get stuff that is made in Mexico, China and other such places.  Can't even get a new pair of felt booties for my Sorels that are mad here rather in China!  Even door knobs and anything else you get plus, if you go to Lowes, you better understand Spanish cause that is what 90% of the signs are in.  In a way, i think that we have brought alot of this on ourselfs.