Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1886 => Topic started by: greyhawk on January 16, 2019, 11:12:28 PM
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Local gunshop has a Chiappa 86 on the wall - I tried to stay out of town till it sold - but am weakening
Looks good - a very attractive piece - can get it about 450 less than a Winchester
What reports ??
The Pedersoli version came with some problems - its a copy of a 71 and the 45/70 doesnt feed properly because they forgot the carrier hook (maybe they fixed that by now ?) Chiappa is sposed to be the closest clone of the original - my son has a chiappa spencer (its a nicely built gun) .... so how many nays and yays ? bearing in mind the price difference - and also I have Zero brand loyalty to Winchester ---- a copy is a copy is a copy is a copy - japanese copy is still a copy .
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A fellow I know has a pretty stunning (Chiappa) Armi Sports 1886 in 45-70.
I was there when he was testing his loads * .... he had no problems and seems pleased with his new rifle.
To my knowledge he is still pleased .
EDIT:
* Black powder cartridge loads
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Hi
Check the Which 1886 thread below. I have a Chiappa, but still haven't finished working up a load. 5 pound out of the box trigger pull, and well made. You do have to run the lever, it's not a short stroked 1873. So far so good. I have the Purdy version, figured walnut and lots of color case hardening...
Later
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Hi
Check the Which 1886 thread below. I have a Chiappa, but still haven't finished working up a load. 5 pound out of the box trigger pull, and well made. You do have to run the lever, it's not a short stroked 1873. So far so good. I have the Purdy version, figured walnut and lots of color case hardening...
Later
Thanks for the replys I put money on the Chiappa 86 today (will take a couple weeks to get a permit to purchase)
Gunshop sold it to a bloke with more money than sense - he bought a box of 20 hornady loads with it - shot 6 - kept it a couple months - came back to the gunshop - "That thing hurt me I dont want it" now another bloke with no money and even less sense (me) has decided to re-home it - nice lookin piece and I have all the kit for a 45/70 already. Price reduced by about $55 per shot fired and he did not put a mark on it anywhere.
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Hi
I love mine, its heavy enough that it's not a pain to shoot. Right now I'm working on a 300 grain jacketed load. I shoot GAF, so I'm working up Krag loads, Sharps loads, Schofield loads, etc.
Later
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Well ! I brought the new Chiappa 86 home this afternoon - load and shoot tomorrow
First impression ouit of the box - its a project
Have spent the last year spoiling myself with a 1876 uberti 45/75 - that is a sweet piece of machinery
This Chiappa is a tank! - yeah its a nice lookin tank but man is it stiff! am gonna need a new mainspring before I get very far with it I think. So tomorrow is start of an adventure in gunsmithing - to see if we can soften this beast up some. Any suggestions based on experience will be thankfully recieved.
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I can't believe that you would announce the arrival of the new toy without the obligatory photo! Guess it didn't happen. ;) ;D
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I can't believe that you would announce the arrival of the new toy without the obligatory photo! Guess it didn't happen. ;) ;D
I wuz gonna wait till I shot it ..............
Case colour is a little more attractive than the Uberti without being too garish (I dont really like some of the real fancy colours I see on some guns picttured)
Wood seems heavy/dense .... good straight grained timber - not fancy - inletting is a tad too deep/ stock a tad too slim at the wrist - I had to put a washer under the tang screw to get bolt clearance over the hammer - this gun is a project for sure - my Browning 71 is way nicer to lever ... but I dont mind a project so long as it gets there in the end - this n will cost me a mainspring I think - once thats done and a bit of a slick up / de burr it will be good. Gotta shoot it first tho.
It cost me US $1450 in my hot little hands (about A$350 under the retail here) fired a few shots but unmarked
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Greyhawk,
I don't necessarily wanna pour a bucket of cold water on your latest toy, but I'm not going to endear myself to you. The Main Spring is just the beginning. Before you do anything else, check the Head Space. The head space may well be way wonky. Check the bottom front of the bolt for the cartridge support tab as it may well be "missing." Carefully check the "lock-up." When in battery, the links are actually suppose to be in contact with the pivot lugs on the frame and the back of the bolt and the pins in parallel.
Then go back thru this board and look for the litany of what GeezerD had to go thru to get a functional Chaparral safe to shoot.
Good Luck
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Greyhawk,
I don't necessarily wanna pour a bucket of cold water on your latest toy, but I'm not going to endear myself to you. The Main Spring is just the beginning. Before you do anything else, check the Head Space. The head space may well be way wonky. Check the bottom front of the bolt for the cartridge support tab as it may well be "missing." Carefully check the "lock-up." When in battery, the links are actually suppose to be in contact with the pivot lugs on the frame and the back of the bolt and the pins in parallel.
Then go back thru this board and look for the litany of what GeezerD had to go thru to get a functional Chaparral safe to shoot.
Good Luck
Its an 86 Coffinmaker .,,,DT
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I wuz gonna wait till I shot it ..............
Case colour is a little more attractive than the Uberti without being too garish (I dont really like some of the real fancy colours I see on some guns picttured)
Wood seems heavy/dense .... good straight grained timber - not fancy - inletting is a tad too deep/ stock a tad too slim at the wrist - I had to put a washer under the tang screw to get bolt clearance over the hammer - this gun is a project for sure - my Browning 71 is way nicer to lever ... but I dont mind a project so long as it gets there in the end - this n will cost me a mainspring I think - once thats done and a bit of a slick up / de burr it will be good. Gotta shoot it first tho.
It cost me US $1450 in my hot little hands (about A$350 under the retail here) fired a few shots but unmarked Always fun to start learning a new one , washer under the tang screw , sounds like a pillar and glass job in the future . Hope she shoots good for you , although I have no doubt you will conquer in the end .,,,,DT
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I think I am gonna earn it on this one ! she wont feed - rims arent going home into the carrier properly - and am battling with gorrillafied screws at the moment - so its gonna get a complete pull down and a slick up before I go shooting - ahh heck i guess I could single load a few ?
has opened my eyes to just how nice that 76 works !!!! I had the three of em out this morning (76, 71, 86)
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That's a really nice looking rifle, Grewhawk. Hope you get her working properly, and enjoy the heck out it.
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Its an 86 Coffinmaker .,,,DT
CHIAPPA 86 not Chapparal 76
But Chiappa is Armi Sport - they the same ????
I think I am gonna earn it on this gun but thats ok - dont mind a project so long as it goes forward
Headspace looks ok, rounds chamber ok, bore looks good, ejects ok, first stage of cocking hammer is tough, and the carrier is too tight to allow the rim to slide in so rounds dont come back far enough to clear for feeding (dremel tool heh heh!)
mainspring is no 1 problem - maybe I learn to make a spring?
Anyway Will keep you posted CM needs something to keep him from bein bored ;D
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Well ....... Humpff :o
I suppose I could have read the original post a little closer. A lot closer.
OOPS!!
Shucks!!
DARN!!
Never Mind ::)
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Well ....... Humpff :o
I suppose I could have read the original post a little closer. A lot closer.
OOPS!!
Shucks!!
DARN!!
Never Mind ::)
first report
1) fixed the feed problem - got it first go too - took about two hours - almost took as long to put the dang gun back together afterward!
the back end - the closed bit - of the carrier was way too tight to allow a round fully in from the magazine I roughed it out with a stone on the dremel (yes Coffin Maker Dremel tools sjhould defnitely be banned from the gunroom) then finished it out with a dremel sanding drum that I have setup on an extended shank for use in the electric drill (dont try that in your dremel you will do serious damage to something, could end up with the extension shank embedded in your skull!) fine paper put a nice finish on it all. Woulda been more cautious about this except that I have a functioning model 71 to kinda copy off - they a little different but ya can look in there and see how stuff is intended to work
2) shoot report ---they put a good barrel on this !!!!! :)
Loaded 10 new starline with 67 grains of black, 45 thou HDPE wad, 335 grain LEE boolit (my hacked up version of the 405HB) as cast .
3 went to sight re alignment 25 and 50 yards
then 7 at 100 (sights still need some work but we get to that later)
Surprised I did this good with my eyes and the barrel sights
fired three (bottom grouip) wandered up for a look see
fired four - musta took a different sight picture for those but anyway the whole thing is about five inches high by three inches wide - pretty pleased with that for a first outing
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My Daddy was prone to say "not so fast young feller - I think ya dropped a piece"
Second shoot this thing locked up soild a coupleof times - I made a new mainspring and fitted that after one of the foulups - big improvement - but its still stiff like it is sticking at the full open full closed parts of the stroke - spent an hour on the lounge just cranking it open - shut - open - shut then another hour feeding a dummy round through it - run it hard it works - slow up at all and she jams - getting better - nudge the lever a couple of times and it lets go and cycles --- a bit more smoothing at the back of the carrier groove might fix the rearward glitch and I think some work on the cartridge stop and front corners of the locking bolts will help with the forward jam - but I am still suspicious of that carrier hook - if all else fails I might make a new one of those.
Wouldnt it be fun (boring!!!) if we could just walk in the shop and buy one of these that worked like a proper old one!!!
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CHIAPPA 86 not Chapparal 76
But Chiappa is Armi Sport - they the same ?
no...with a but
Brescia including Gardone, is to firearms manufacturing firearms as France is for wine, Detroit was to US Autos
or Hollywood is for blowhard liberial/socialist actors.
Beretta's been there more than 500 years, and since then, about 200 other gun makers have sprung up — from mom and pop shops to other Italian international brands.
Some like Beretta, are argubly the finest, others like Chapparel not so or even close.
Chiappa Firearms or Armi Sport de Chiappa is family owned with about 50 employees and make some interesting firearm's
your 86 , the Spencer , 1892'a, a thing they call the Rhino and but load of CO2 Pistols.
Chapparal is to my understanding rose from the building that was Palmetto Arm's and has setteled back to the same ashes.
Perhaps, some of the same fit & finishers seeked new employment across town.
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well !!
I was startin to get a bit lonesome with the list down and all - dont like the look of it as much as before - but stuff has to happen I guess.
So the 1886 Chiappa
I fixed the feed problem - took a couple of goes
- first was a problem with the carrier just not being machined properly and wouldnt take the rim of a 45/70 case - got that done, then the thing was glitchy and would sometimes just lock up at each end of the lever stroke -
- did some minor smoothing up on the carrier hook and its channel
- made a new mainspring, that improved the feel of it by heaps
- still sticky but working ok now. Emptys are going over my head and landing about five feet behind me so the ejector spring could stand losing a coil or two - but the main source of stickyness now is when closing the bolt these actions are forcing against the spring pressure created by the magazine cutoff and the locking bolts are a little more square on top than they need to be - gonna shoot it some now and maybe do a bit more smoothing in the winter. Not quite as nice as my Browning 71 but give it a few hundred shots? We gettin closer.
(Trouble with all this is I have been spoiled by how easy my 1876 works!!)
I re assembled it and spent half an hour in the lounge room just cranking it - open - shut - open - shut. Then I loaded a dummy round and fed it through the action from loading gate to eject 100times (yep I counted). Took the rifle to our BP club shoot two weeks back and it worked fine 25 shots without a hangup (cleaned once halfway through) .
This rifle has a good barrel in it and that has kept me focussed from the start.
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Is the barrel a metric diameter? Should be .460
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Is the barrel a metric diameter? Should be .460
Metric Diameter??
Hmmm I slugged it when I got it - lost the slug and forgot the measurements ;D- but pretty near identical to my Uberti 45/75 (that was the whole point of that excercise anyway - did I need to look at different boolits = NO)
Have only fired about 40 so far - using a 335grain which I make in an altered version of the LEE 459-405-HB - it drops around 461 and I shoot it as cast - 65 grains of BP and a 45 thou HDPE wad - (fireform load with new starline brass)
Quite happy with how it shoots - have squeezed it down to 2inches at 100yards a couple of times with a tang sight on.
Next time (reloads) will try a duplex load with 5 grains 4227 on the primer - little bit more sting and will help with fouling till I get it run in better .
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had another session today with the Marbles peep sight - didnt do so good (nothing new about that I am kinda haphazard these days ) shot 18 rounds blackpowder today without a clean during the string (gave it a break time to cool a couple times) - two separate brackets of five that went about 2 inch vertical but spread sideways proly 8 inches, the last 8 I shot with the barrel sights went into 4 inches just below centre and no fliers so am pleased with my fouling control - that completes the first 50 shots with this new gun. It cleaned up easy with no sign of leading - when I got back the marbles sight appeared some loose on the base so I pulled it off.
The Chiappa functioned well - no hiccups or glitches - this barrel collects a bit more crud than my Uberti 76 but that one is mirror smooth and has a few hundred down it too.
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1886 Chiappa
Load testing
Duplex loads
6 grains 4227 under 55 grains black + HDPE wad + 405 Grain LEE = 1362 FPS - with 7 FPS Spread
6 grains 4227 under 63 grains black + HDPE wad + 335 grain LEE = 1550 FPS - with 6 FPS spread
The 335 grain is giving really good expansion into soft dirt at 100yards so proly stick with that one if they both shoot similar - should make a really good hog load if one comes in my backyard - just needs some more serious paper killin first to figure things out. ;D
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(will take a couple weeks to get a permit to purchase)
??? a permit ? what ? does it have a bayonet lug and full auto ?
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??? a permit ? what ? does it have a bayonet lug and full auto ?
m
livin in the land of Aus ....
open carry an old timer pocket knife in the grocery store can get ya arrested
kids have to dress up like lance armstrong to ride their bike in the park (or pay $350fine)
A bloke got charged (and fined) a few weeks back for using his mobile phone while he rode his HORSE at a walk down a dirt road near his farm
several ladies got booked for unsecured load outside the local supermarket a while back - they put the grocery bags on the back seat of their car and didnt rope em down
so anything that discharges a projectile (including a BBgun) requires a "permit to acquire" - takes 2 to 4 weeks - costs 30bucks ---tis what it is - you guys elect the Demorats and you will get to know a lot of this stuff first hand!!