Spare Ammo in the movies

[jrdudas]

I just watched the movie "Missing" with Tommy Lee Jones and I was reminded of something I have noticed in most westerns.  There seldom seems to be any obvious depiction of the characters loading up with a supply of spare ammo.  In "Missing", Tommy Lee Jones character and his daugther use a lot of rifle and pistol ammo, but you only see a cartridge belt for shotgun shells. In other movies I frequently see a character reloading their gun from their ammo belt, but seldom see a cache of spare ammo beyond what is held in the belt.  When I have seen wagonloads of spare ammo shown, it's usually in a movie where the Cavalry plays a big part.  With all the shots fired in many westerns I would think that at least half of a saddle bag full of ammo is necessary.  Has anyone else noticed the same thing.

John

[litl rooster]

Try to find Missouri Breaks... Brando, Nickleson(spelling sorry Jack) & Quaid oh yeah, and  Harry Dean Stanton...There is a reference in the beginning to the Spare ammo. Also the movie Open Range and Lonesome Dove you will see references to it. But why do you never see them reload those cap and ball shooters in the movies.

[thehairlessone]

I was thinking about that just the other day. I watched the Missing also and a couple others.

It is really lame when they fire 12 to 18 rounds out of a single revolver and never reload in between.

rick

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[Lucky Deuce]

Try to find Missouri Breaks... Brando, Nickleson(spelling sorry Jack) & Quaid oh yeah, and  Harry Dean Stanton...There is a reference in the beginning to the Spare ammo. Also the movie Open Range and Lonesome Dove you will see references to it. But why do you never see them reload those cap and ball shooters in the movies.

     Seems like in "Ride with the Devil" during the fight in the cabin, some were reloading thier C&B revolvers...  Have to dig it out again and watch it...

I agree about the ammo thing...  Only have watched a few westerns that the main character bought some extra boxes of cartridges...   

[B. Butch Cavendish]

 I think we know the answer to this. We just never talk about it. It's a movie. It costs big bucks andthey only have about 90 mins to tell a story. do you want to see action, or a guy puting in powder, setting a round ball, capping a niple etc?  Also for a good story you suspend disbealif.  We know that they most likely diddn't pack a large coffee pot and a full set of dinner ware and a tent and all he confrots of home. It's like Batman's uttility belt. "The stuff is just there when you need it."

[Trinity]

Yep, BB's got it.  We want reality, but that's us as cowboy shooters.  Everybody else doesn't want to watch the tedious chores repeated time and again.  And in honesty... do we?  We know it has to be done, we can suspend that bit of reality to get the action moving... kind of like taking a constitutional.  Everybody's gotta do it, but you hardly ever see it.  Why don't we complain about that? ... sorry, I'm dragging this down a different trail. 

Anyway, about the multiple shots out of a six shooter complaint.  I've looked at many a movie and one can almost always just write it off to editing.  In the newer movies I have seldom seen a cowboy shoot more than a few shots before the camera cuts away.  When the camera cuts away, how do we know what he's doing? 

Sadly...  Very recently this error was made.  In Open Range Kevin Costner fanned how many shots out of his shooter?  It was a neat scene, but there ain't no good excuse for that.  Oh well.

[litl rooster]

This thread has me thinking about something, but I'll be durned if I can come up with examples right now to support it.
My IMPRESSION is that I have seen many scenes in movies where the BADDIE is shown fumbling reloads into his firearm, and the very fumbling/or dropping of rounds is used to convey the fear he is feeling and underscores his impending doom, but rarer shots of the GOOD GUY needing to reload.

The one exception I can recall handily is the scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid where Butch had to go get their spare ammo belts off the mule. The whole ending was based on running low on ammo and how they carried their spare ammunition.

Didn't think about Butch and Sundance but your right.

B.B. and Trinty you watch a cop robber movie and the guys are droppin clips every 5 seconds or opening a case with some bigger badder weapon. So with the world full of reality shows why not show the goods and the bads reloadin the Colts and Winnies under fire or on the run

[Trinity]

This thread has me thinking about something, but I'll be durned if I can come up with examples right now to support it.
My IMPRESSION is that I have seen many scenes in movies where the BADDIE is shown fumbling reloads into his firearm, and the very fumbling/or dropping of rounds is used to convey the fear he is feeling and underscores his impending doom, but rarer shots of the GOOD GUY needing to reload.

The one exception I can recall handily is the scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid where Butch had to go get their spare ammo belts off the mule. The whole ending was based on running low on ammo and how they carried their spare ammunition.

Didn't think about Butch and Sundance but your right.

B.B. and Trinty you watch a cop robber movie and the guys are droppin clips every 5 seconds or opening a case with some bigger badder weapon. So with the world full of reality shows why not show the goods and the bads reloadin the Colts and Winnies under fire or on the run

"Die Hard 15"  Only two clips this time.  Can he reload the clips before he himself is shot?  Tune in tonight on Fox!

[Danny Bear Claw]

Yup... in Open Range Costner fans off at least 10 shots from his "six shooter" in the scene in questions.  Fanning is a bad idea anyway.  It's the cowboy version of "spray-and-pray".  Not accurate at all.  Set up a target, close... fan off six shots as quick as you can and I'll bet there are no holes in the paper at all.

Another thing that makes me cringe in shooting scenes in movies is the tendency to just toss away a gun when it runs out of ammo... like it was disposable or something.  You see it all the time is westerns and non-westerns alike.   

[Trinity]

...or how about passing up the dead guys guns?  If I were in a real life situation, I'd be collecting as much armament and ammo as I could carry.  If there's one thing that I yell at the TV it's: "Get his guns!"  All due respect to the fallen, but their weapons and ammo can be put to good use! 

[litl rooster]

...or how about passing up the dead guys guns?  If I were in a real life situation, I'd be collecting as much armament and ammo as I could carry.  If there's one thing that I yell at the TV it's: "Get his guns!"  All due respect to the fallen, but their weapons and ammo can be put to good use! 

Yup... in Open Range Costner fans off at least 10 shots from his "six shooter" in the scene in questions.  Fanning is a bad idea anyway.  It's the cowboy version of "spray-and-pray".  Not accurate at all.  Set up a target, close... fan off six shots as quick as you can and I'll bet there are no holes in the paper at all.

Another thing that makes me cringe in shooting scenes in movies is the tendency to just toss away a gun when it runs out of ammo... like it was disposable or something.  You see it all the time is westerns and non-westerns alike.   

Years ago going thru combat school, we were taught to pack the fallen arms out or destroy it..So it couldn't be used against you...I'm with you Trinty, but it is also a spoils of war.

[Drayton Calhoun]

In Gettysburg there is a scene where Parker Stevenson, I believe, is changing cylinders in his '61 Navy Colt. Also, he had no loading lever installed. Read an account several years ago and sadly cannot remember the book that made note of this. The reason was the fear that the loading lever would drop at the wrong moment and lock the cylinder. Pale Rider showed Clint swapping cylinders in his conversion Remington.

[Forty Rod]

I was thinking about that just the other day. I watched the Missing also and a couple others.

It is really lame when they fire 12 to 18 rounds out of a single revolver and never reload in between.

rick

If Roy Rogers can do it, anyone can.   

[Major 2]

In Gettysburg there is a scene where Parker Stevenson, I believe, is changing cylinders in his '61 Navy Colt. Also, he had no loading lever installed. Read an account several years ago and sadly cannot remember the book that made note of this. The reason was the fear that the loading lever would drop at the wrong moment and lock the cylinder. Pale Rider showed Clint swapping cylinders in his conversion Remington.

Just to clearify Parker Stevenson was not in Gettysburg, you may be thinking of Jeff Daniels loading his 1860 Army at Little Round Top...Fact is it was not his 1860 Army it is mine  It a 2nd Gen. I still own.
Stevenson was Billy Hazzard in North & South II

Here is the thing...both for safety reasons (mostly) and time constrants (re-takes) the Armorer, and on some shows the Prop master handles reloads.
As I have held both positions on films, and argued simulated on camera reloading, all to offen it is left on the cutting room floor in the final edit. Even if the suggestion was is concidered or even filmed in the first place.
Ron Maxwell (Getteysburg & Gods & Generals ) was very intrested in getting details right. Quite often you would see him discussing shots with advisers & even core group reenactors.

[Shotgun Franklin]

It is really lame when they fire 12 to 18 rounds out of a single revolver and never reload in between.

Sometimes you have to watch the uncut scenes to see reloads. In 'Open Range' our Hero changes guns in the uncut version but the scene was edited for faster action and the gun swap was lost.

 

But why do you never see them reload those cap and ball shooters in the movies.

That old TV series about the Pony Express used to show the guys reloading but it was used as a device so they could put dialog into the gunfight, kinda clever really.

[Drayton Calhoun]

Thanks for the correction, Major, been better than ten years since I last saw Gettysburg and at times it is rather difficult to tell the difference between an Army and a Navy on a small screen. Must admit though, I would love to see someone fan a LeMat.

[The Elderly Kid]

In "Ride With The Devil" in the farmhouse fight the actors lower their pistols out of camera range and you hear mechanical clicks and rattles so you know they're reloading, but you don't see how it's done, just that when they raise the guns they're loaded again. The fact is, moviemakers know that 90% of the audience have no idea that cap & ball guns didn't use cartridges and would be utterly mystified to see someone pouring powder down the front of the cylinder. I've seen a still from a William S. Hart silent where he's seated at a table pouring powder into an 1860 Army from a powder horn, but that was made when half his audience would have been born in the cap & ball era.
Concerning those throw away the gun scenes: I recently saw a movie (don't remember the name) where a modern-day guy with a semiauto is ordered, "Throw down your gun!" He responds, "Throw it down?  Do you have any idea what this thing cost?" First such realistic scene in my experience.

[Short Knife Johnson]

Didn't they show Alan Rickman as Elliot Marsden loading his Colt Army revolver in a scene in 'Quigly Down Under'?  Lots of footage of Tom Selleck loading the "Quigley Rifle."  But it being a single shot makes that pretty inevidable.

Also during 'Tombstone', after the battle at Iron Springs were Curley Bill is killed, the Earp crew is sitting around cleaning their firearms.  Well sort of... wiping them down anyway.  One of the Cowboys was loading his '73 while walking towards the opening gun battle at the Mexican Wedding.

Was there not a scene in 'Unforgiven' where Gene Hackman was loading his SAA.  But I think that was germaine to the scene.  He was challenging Mr. Beauchamp to shoot him.  Or am I wrong?

And yes, if ever ordered to drop my pistol, my response would be pretty much the same.

[Shotgun Franklin]

A couple of good guide lines for a real gunfight.

1) Hold on to the dang gun, the gun you loose ain't worth crap to you

2) Never give up your gun, better to die fighting than on your knees

3) Count your shots if possible, it's really bad to shoot your gun dry during a gunfight

It wouldn't hurt for movies to learn these. I've seen more Reel good guys than I can remember either loose thier gun or give it up than I can remember.

[The Elderly Kid]

Something else very seldom seen in movies and tv is misfires. They were very common in the 19th century, when fixed ammo was still new and unreliable, and in the C&B era when bad caps and wet powder were always hazards. I can think of only one misfire incident, in "Unforgiven." This was referred to the gun "snapping." A common account of a gunfight might run something like: "I fired, then snapped twice, then fired again." It was for this reason that Hickock reloaded his pistols with new charges and caps every day. When Rezin Bowie gave James his hunting knife, one of his recommendations was, "She never snaps," meaning that, unlike a firearm, the knife would always work. Later readers interpreted this to mean that the knife wouldn't break.