Need help with 50-95 reloading die selection!

[EdsPlace]

Hi All,

I'm brand new to this forum and hope you all will forgive me if this topic has been covered in the archives somewhere.  I'm the proud owner of a new Uberti '76 Winchester in 50-95 and after investing in one box of Ten-X ammo have decided that reloading is the way to go.  The die sets available have me completely baffled.  RCBS has a "Legacy Series 50-95 Winchester Express" priced around $45 and a "50-95 WCF" priced around $280.  Huh?  What's the difference?  I've seen other dies by CH(?) and 4D around $150.  What in the world is going on here?  Is the Uberti round different from from the original?  How so?  In all I've read about the originals anyway, it seems that 50-95 WCF and 50-95 Winchester Express are used interchangeably.

Once I figure out the proper dies to invest in, I'm interested in loading with the real thing (BP - is there anything else?).  The only BP rifle cartridge I'm currently reloading is the 43 Mauser (11.15 x 60R).  If anyone needs some info on that, please drop me a line.

Thanks again!

(I'm currently browsing through the postings here.  Whew!  Lots of good info!)

Ed

[Grizzly Adams]

Howdy, EdsPlace.  Welcome to the fire!

I have always had good luck with C&H Dies, although I don't have a 50-95 so I can't speak specifically to that caliber.  I note that they only list one set for the 50-95 WCF, so that may indicate that they have found little to no difference in any of the chambers.  (They do list different dies for the 45-75.)

As to the price of the RCBS dies......well, they are proud of them!

Forum member evodude has a set listed on e-bay.  He was asking $125.

  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,24565.0.html

[EdsPlace]

Why, thank you kindly Grizzly!

I saw the die set evodude listed on ebay and I am tempted!  But if the RCBS 50-95 "Winchester Express"  dies will do the trick, I can get them for $45.99 from Midway.  Midway also lists the 50-95 WCF for $282.99.  Now, that is quite a difference for the same thing!  I have seen the RCBS 50-95 "Winchester Express" listed elsewhere in the $40 range, so I'm pretty sure it isn't a "typo".  You can see why I'm confused!

Now it's going to take a few weeks before my "Accountant" releases any more of my funds.  You see, I just invested in lubrisizer, brass, sizing die, top punch, brass and wads for my 45 LC.  Seems I need to spend a little more at Victoria's Secret and Fredericks to make things equitable and peaceable on the home front!

Thanks!

Ed

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[ndnchf]

CH4D makes 2 types of .50-95 dies.
 
The Uberti version:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7347.html

and the original version:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,615.html

I believe the difference is in the shape of the shoulder and the bullet diameter.  The uberti has a sharper shoulder than the originals.  Originals use a smaller diameter bullet.

I have an Uberti .50-95 and use the CH4D Uberti dies.  You need to slug the your rifle, groove diameter varies a good bit.  Uberti claims a nominal .510" groove, but mine ran .513".  I called CH4D and had them send me a .512" expander plug.  The .509" that comes with the dies was too small.

Its a little bit of a pain to get all the right loading gear, but they are worth it. 

[EdsPlace]

I hear you ndnchf!

Sounds like I've got to check my mold inventory and see if I have one large enough now.  I thought I had one of the Lyman molds that would do, but I don't remember off the top of my head which one.  Anyway, slugging the bore will be a first for me.  I followed a link here on this board for a "how to" and got several suggestions.  Some seem like a little more work than necessary, however.  Couldn't I take a soft cast bullet (or even a round ball for that matter) a little oversized and push this through nose down the muzzle end with a wooden dowel, being very careful not to damage the crown?

If the shoulder geometry is different between an original and the Uberti, that might explain the two different die sets that RCBS offers.  I doubt that is worth the $250 difference in price though!  At these prices, it might be a while until I get to reloading for my original '76 in 40-60!

Ed

[Grizzly Adams]

CH4D makes 2 types of .50-95 dies.
 

Thanks for clarifying that, ndnchf.   I could only find the one version on the C&H website.

[ndnchf]

Edsplace - Slugging the bore is easy.  Just oil the bore well, and use either a slightly oversize round ball (in a pinch I have even squeezed an undersize round ball in a vice first to squish it out) or better yet a soft .515" bullet.  A 1/2 wooded dowl will work, gently tap the bullet down slowly with a small hammer to the dowel, keeping well away from the muzzle.  Have something soft for the slug to drop into so it doesn't deform.  Let us know what you find.

Griz - CH4D seems to be kinda slow in updating their website.  The Uberti .50-95 dies are a new item, BACO just got a new shipment of them about 2 weeks ago.

I try and get a photo of a Uberti fired case to post.

[EdsPlace]

Thanks ndnchf,
 
Good pics, BTW!  Looks just like the three rounds of Ten-X I've fired.  You're right, the fired cases show a distinct shoulder.  I imagine the Tex-X would chamber just fine in an original '76.  I'm guessing that if the cases were sized with a "legacy" forming die, the cases would wear out quickly due to the constant fire-forming as illustrated.

Was going through my collection last night and found two Lyman moulds #515139.  That should be a 0.515 bullet or there abouts (330 gr. RNFP).  I'll fire up the pot, cast a few and try slugging the bore as you suggested.  If the bore is indeed around 0.513, I should be able to load these as cast, correct?  I'll probably end up getting a die anyway as that makes lubricating easier.

I have an interesting story about the first time I attempted to shoot this rifle.  I bought a box of Ten-X from Cabela's and put off sighting in due to the high cost and time constraints.  I went hunting with it anyway, and you guessed it, got a shot at a nice 6-pointer from my treestand.  When I squeezed the trigger, all I got was a "click".  I tried my best to chamber another round figuring I had neglected to chamber one in the first place.  Round number two would not chamber, lacking about a quarter inch.  You guessed it.  A squib.  That quarter inch probably saved me from a real bad day and taught a valuable lesson.

To make a long story short, the guys at Ten-X were great.  They replaced my box of ammo and told me the malfunction was traced to a bad lot of Winchester primers.  The problem was confined to a lot of 50-95 only and I was the second person to report this malfunction.

Thanks again!

Ed

[ndnchf]

Ed,

The Lyman 515139 is quite popular with .50-95 fellas on this board.  As a matter of fact, I'll be casting some tonight. 

I'm not saying yours will slug at .513", it could be .510 + or- .003.  Backstrap Bill posted recently that his Cimarron Uberti slugged at .507", that's .006" different from mine   No telling what you'll find.  But whatever it is, you'll probably want to get an appropriate expander plug and bullet sizer.

I've heard about folks having ignition problems with Ten-X, but didn't hear what the issue was. I didn't want to shoot their loaded ammo as I don't care for smokeless of BP subs.  But I was able to buy 100 empty cases directly from Ten-X.  I annealed them all and so far they have worked fine.

[EdsPlace]

Good Advice!  I slugged the bore as suggested and found 0.513 on the money.  My mold drops at around 0.517.  That's an old mold that I used for the Smith Carbine.  I have a new mold #515139A.  Don't know what the difference is.  I'll mold some up and see what I have.

Thanks,
Ed

[ndnchf]

I re-measured the slug from my bore and it runs .513" - .5137" depending on the groove I measure.  A couple nights ago I cast up about 200 Lyman 515139s in 20:1.  From the mould they measure about .517" - .518".  I ran them through my .515" sizer, so they should work fine.  I'm curious about the 515139A - what's the "A" mean?  Now I need to go back and check my mould #.  Its a new mould, heck maybe its an "A" version too

[ndnchf]

I checked my mould and I'm even more confused.  Mine is a "515139D"  What the heck does "D" mean?  It is also marked "2H", "946" and "12-08".  Since I just got it, I assume the last is a manufacture date.  Not sure what the other numbers mean

It cast real nice bullets.  The batch I cast are 20:1 and weigh in at 343gr with a diameter of .517" - .518".  I've got 40 of 'em sized to .515", lubed and ready to load 

[EdsPlace]

It appears 0.512 is the largest sizing die Lyman makes for their lubrisizer.  I guess I'm just going to have to ream one out?

[ndnchf]

Nope - check out Buffalo Arms.  The make custom sizeing dies.  I called a few days ago and ordered a .514".  They are a little pricey, but solve the sizing problem.  I already have one of their custom .515" sizers and it is right on the money.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=97&catid=72&step=2

I called Lee a couple weeks ago thinking I'd order one of their custom bullet sizers.  But they were back up 9-12 weeks on custom orders.  I said no thanks.

[EdsPlace]

Cool!  Thanks for the tip!