Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => 1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting => Topic started by: Galen on March 24, 2021, 07:24:26 PM
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What shotguns can be used for wild bunch? I have a Remington Model 10 and a Winchester model 12 16 gauge. Would either of them be acceptable?
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Sorry Galen, but no.
Legal are the '97 (including Trench gun), the Chinese '93-97, and Model 12. Only 12 Ga is legal. Having said that, local clubs often relax the rules to get people to participate, so you might check with them.
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G, I would bet Abilene is right. While neither one is legal I bet at the first few monthly’s they would let you use that model 12.
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Thats sad a chinese made shotgun is legal but an American made shotgun with ties to the U.S. military is not. Oh well.
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It's just me, but I think any 20ga or higher, safe, pre1918, repeating shotgun should be allowed. I would open up the pistol choices as well... I'll let my self out now ;)
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Just as a Snide Aside, prior to SASS grabbing Wild Bunch and running it, those shotguns should have been quite acceptable. As would a TON of handguns, now Verboden.
Stay Safe Out There
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Howdy Wild Bunchers,
Per Tornado's post: I love using my Rem. 11 (think hump-backed Browning) and Luger (with a 1911) for Wild Bunch.
Rev. Chase
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I would agree
For the most part , Wild Bunch failed to attract enough players in my area...
There were a few matches maybe 8 participants tops, then it dwindled to one stage at one CAS match (if you were so inclined, that dried up too )
There may be a posse' or two that may still offer it in Florida, but don't hold me too the statement :-\
I always felt , if you were true to the film , then a Star SA Super B should allowed it was the stand in, go to handgun for the 1911 .through out the film...
" eh bien " as the French say ::)
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Thats sad a chinese made shotgun is legal but an American made shotgun with ties to the U.S. military is not. Oh well.
Specially since the Model 10 Remington predates the Model 12.
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Wild Bunch shooting is going the way of the Dodo bird. Or possibly being a clique. Some great ideas with allowing Lugers even the Broomhandle. Anyway it is what it is.
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I guess it's a regional thing. Wild Bunch has been on a slow increase around here the last few years, I would say. At last year's Comancheria Days match near Fredericksburg,TX there were 212 shooters for the main cowboy match, and we had 44 of them shoot the 4-stage Wild Bunch side match. In two weeks we will have this match again with 180 shooters registered, and 43 are signed up for the WB match. Seems like a pretty good turnout.
I just checked and Trailhead, which was the SASS TX State match this year, was just this past weekend and they had 24 shooters for their WB Side Match.
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Texas and the SW is steep with history of the border and the punitive expedition , I'm not surprised Wild Bunch is active.
In concept the discipline is uber cool so is BAMM....
Sadly, here in Florida , neither WB or BAMM or even NCOWS, haven't garnered enough broad appeal to participants beyond a dabble at match or 3.
Same, same for Western 3 gun , just some early lightly attended matches years ago by SASS types and a handful adventurous soles.
!0 -10 - 6 CAS matches seem to be the main focus on the monthly match circuit, maybe the yearly Regional SASS match may still provided for a WB side match :-\
W3G is non-existent since about 2012 or so , WB's infancy disappeared 5 years ago ....I know of no BAMM matches outside of Baltimore Ed's club up in the Carolina's coast region.
Though , The NCOWS Posse exists with the Cracker Cow Cavalry , it does not compete with broader SASS discipline.
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Cowboy shooting sports may have been a case of self divide and conquer. For me when it went to short stroke and mouse fart loads the game was dead. But I had a grand time till then. ;D
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Who ever compiled the list of approved weapons is living in his own world. The Winchester self loaders are period correct along with a plethora of other handguns and shotguns.
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:) Galen ;)
Your a little late arriving on the scene. Let me Expand. Some Lustrum ago, a bunch of Cowboy friends of mine thought up a really fun SIDE MATCH. It was called "Wild Bunch" and was base loosely on the guns and time period portrayed in the movie "The Wild Bunch." It was conceived to be a fun thing, a chance to bring out the Safe Queens. 1917 revolvers, Broomhandles, Lugers, and others. Rifles of .40 caliber or larger, even some Bolt Actions, loaded down. Shotguns were "Run What Ya Brung. It was some kind of fun
Then along came SASS. Decided to hold their own "Wild Bunch" side match at EOT. With infinite wisdom, SASS dumbed it way down. 1911's only. M-97 or SxS only. Still .40 or larger rifles. 1911 Magazines could only load 5. Shotguns 2. All sorts of RULES. Match directors all across the country said, "Hey, we don't have to think" and immediately adopted SASS rules. WILD BUNCH DIED.
SO: That is how we got where we are. SASS stuck their meddling noses in and KILLED Wild Bunch. Just has take a while to die an agonizing death. Was only just recently, it was allowed to load 7 in a 1911. 6 in a 97. Wild Bunch was however, all ready DEAD. RIP
Stay Save Out There
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.... Wild Bunch was however, all ready DEAD. RIP
Stay Save Out There
Everybody has their opinions, and maybe it is dead in some areas.
So I got curious and did some checking. Winter Range, I just randomly picked 3 years, 2010, 2015, 2020. 2010=75 shooters. 2015=114 shooters. 2020=125 shooters
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When comparing SASS Cowboy Action Shooting and SASS Wild Bunch it seems to me that WB is the branch most open to change / improvement / common horse sense...
1. They opened up for the Winchester Model 12 shotgun in addition to the Win. 1897.
2. They went from loading 5 in the mag of the 1911 to 7 in the mag.
If we keep nagging on our WB Territorial Governors they might eventually open up for all makes of pump-action shotguns of a modelyear prior to 1919.
Add a separate category for semi-auto shotguns of a model prior to 1919...
Then add an "Open Pistol" category to include Lugers, Broomhandles etc., etc.
And a "Pocket Semi-Auto Pistol" side-match category to include the .25 ACP's and the .32 ACP's.
The list goes on....and a jolly good time will be had by all....! 8)
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:) Cap'n ;)
All true. Also, let us not forget, WB TGs also approved the most excellent 93/97 after SASS Poo Poo'd it. Most Excellent shotgun, now extinct.
:) Abilene ;)
Personally, I don't consider an increase of 50 participants over a 15+ year time frame to be a success story. Especially when we are considering a single Venue. And, Wild Bunch, as Originally Concepted is still very sadly DEAD.
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So basically the old odd random version years ago of a plinking match died. Replaced with a new version based on competition 10 years ago. ;D that about sums it up doesn’t it.
I always wondered in cowboy why you couldn’t shoot a double action top break smith&wesson if you promised to always cock it single action? Really on thinking about it why couldn’t you use a model 11 Remington as long as you only loaded one at a time. Both these guns are original and way older than everyone’s new guns they use now in competition.
Ok
Now
Before
Certain
Folks
Get
there
panties
In
A
Twist
APRIL FOOLS ! ALL IN GOOD FUN! ;D
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How about a Model 12 trenchgun? Or is it too gamey. A simple solution Coffinmaker would be to become a WASA/SASS club and broaden the firearm palette. There’s still a cutoff date but its a little later. That way everyone is welcome to the table.
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Ed, what is a WASA?
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WASA is the Western Action Shootists Association which was created in 1998 by Bull Schmitt and a small group of cas shooters who [in a nutshell] [if anyone wants to correct me feel free] simply stated, wanted a cowboy action shooting organization that was not for profit and less complicated than sass was becoming. They also wanted a broader range of firearms than sass was allowing with 1916 as the cutoff date. Single action, double action and self loading handguns were all legal. To quote the 2002 rulebook on page 4, [I like the first and last] 1] Keep the rules simple. 5] Lets have fun. The 2002 rulebook fits in my pocket and has 23 pages. Our club left SASS officially [kept the rules] but we also adopted WASA so we have both options. Matches are set up to accommodate all shooters though in all honesty only a few of us take advantage of the freedoms allowed. The safety, clothing, match operation are basically the same for both groups. I think I’m the only one around who is continuing to [see below] beat this dead horse but it’s still a great idea.
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That sounds pretty interesting. Our club left SASS not long ago and are looking to change things up soon. I would love to seen catagorys that expand into the early 20th century.
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Send me a pm so we can chat, WASA would certainly change things up for your guys if they’re open minded. Next Saturday we are doing our monthly match as a Wild Bunch but it will be written so that SA shooters can shoot it too. They shoot 10, WB troopers shoot 15-20. Next month the tentative plan is a BAM match. Why do a 10-10-2 match every month? If it ain’t fun why bother.
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We shot our monthly match yesterday which was also a Wild Bunch shoot. Had 18 shooters compete with half shooting 1911s. A nice overcast cool spring day at the beach, luckily the rain held off until we got everything put away. Didn’t get my M12 riot done so I used my M12 trench, another guy used a cutdown M12 too. Everyone else ran ‘97s. The usual 1911 mag/ammo/operator issues cropped up between different shooters and stages. I had my misfeed jam on the first stage which contributed to one of my 2 misses. I set the ?mag aside, switched ammo and shoot 4 stages clean with one other miss. All six stages were 10-10-2 or 4. Not our usual WB. We have shot 20 pistol and 8 sg on a single stage. But we all had a real good time. Hopefully I’ll get some photos and scores to post. Next month is BAMM/double action revolvers. Good stuff.
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".... Why do a 10-10-2 match every month? If it ain’t fun why bother.
my thoughts exactly
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Where is the WASA matches located?
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WASA is or rather was an organization that does not exist anymore. I did shoot a sanctioned match with them before they folded, in fact I came in first place Selfloader, have a 2002 handbook that I’m willing to share and have been in touch with Bull Schmitt who told me he had no problems with me promoting WASA. That dead horse thing. I still believe WASA is a good addition to any cas club’s rules. What could be wrong with a broader variety of guns to play with without infringing on the single action folks ability to play with theirs. My club is ECSASS, we shoot at the Dare Co Shooting Complex near Manteo, NC. A fine little club. Everyone works, no prima donnas, shoots run smooth and safely and most importantly-we have fun with all kinds of guns. WASA as an organization is never going to exist again, with the selling of Founders Ranch SASS might be getting closer to their end than their beginning. Thinking it’s time to circle the wagons and get everyone inside, WASA, SASS, GAF and NCOWS as we all like the same things...if you squint your eyes a little, namely old guns and playing dress up.
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... we all like the same thing if you squint your eyes a little.
Exactamundo!
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Did better than I thought and came in 5th. Those extra 30 seconds clearing my 1st stage jam cost me. I even had a sub 30 second stage that I didn’t realize until I saw the scores. Must be those gummy vitamins.
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The Remington model 10 should be allowed. ;)
Slim
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How about a Model 12 trenchgun? Or is it too gamey. A simple solution Coffinmaker would be to become a WASA/SASS club and broaden the firearm palette. There’s still a cutoff date but its a little later. That way everyone is welcome to the table.
Since no one answered this last year I thought I might give you the current info. Last fall at the Texas State match I noticed that one competitor was using a Model 12 Trench Gun. I looked at the rules, which were ambiguous at best. I raise the question on the Wild Bunch Wire and after some very opinionated back and forth, the Model 12 Trench Gun was approved.
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Thanks for the clarification Doc. Our April monthly shoot will have a Wild Bunch category. Depending on who designs the match, the number of sg and 1911 pistol rounds vary considerably but I’m thinking it will be 10-10-4 but I might be wrong. Going to try my Crazy Lee Model 12 and AO 1911. If its a warm day I’ll wear my 1912 summer uniform but if its a cool day I’ll wear my pinstripes and go gangster. I want to finish up my Model 1912 20 ga riot this week and try it out.
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Here's a direct quote from Captain Dennet, "Why didn't they take the tank".