Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => USFA CSS => Topic started by: yahoody on August 08, 2018, 05:57:21 PM
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Just though I'd add some facts to the ongoing discussion of how the prices are in the after market USFA world.
I know of several very nice USA made USFA guns that have sold for over $2500. Just an FYI for those that might think the prices are going to drop with a new player in production.
My take from the limited feed back on the other guys is they are gonna be playing catch up for some time yet.
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No doubt there is way more variety in USFA's. Standard is probably smart to keep it simple with just the .45 for now. I wonder what they would have to charge to do something like an Ainsworth and actually make money.
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No doubt there is way more variety in USFA's. Standard is probably smart to keep it simple with just the .45 for now. I wonder what they would have to charge to do something like an Ainsworth and actually make money.
Standard isn't sparing any expense on the final finish of their guns. Cost to do the finish on a 7.5" gun is the same. A few added roll marks and stamps would be a very small expense as are the one piece wood grips (Standard wants $150 for that now) . Getting them to make a BP frame? Another story all together.
Last time we saw a new player in the US SAA world, Colt ramped up production, quality and price. I doubt the matching MSRP by Standard random. If nothing else I bet we see Colt back at it shortly if Standard begins to really take off.
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Nah. Bringing Colt back to life would take some serious Necromancy. Colt is going the way of Winchester. Prostituting their name out to the highest bidder and having product made by off-shore third parties. The big market is no longer growing and Colt no longer has measurable market share. Dodo.
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CM, can't disagree with that. Other than hope you are calling them a Dodo and not me :)
How many times in our lives have we thought Colt dead and out of the SAA game? Twice for sure and likely one or two more when you think strike and today's situation. Colt has a habit of making miracle resurrections of the SAA. I'd expect no less from them.
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I somewhat agree with yahoody, but I would not bet on Colt bringing back the single action. They have sold off all of their remaining single action parts and I heard that all of the tooling and machinery necessary to make these guns has also been dismantled and disposed of. If this is true, in my opinion, it is unlikely that these guns will be back in production anytime soon, if ever. Colt did not go to this extreme last time around, when the SA was discontinued. Again, this is just my opinion.
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Interesting. A lot of conjecture for sure. Seems Standard bought up USFA machines and the CNC program. Easy enough to see that linage in the new Standard production. But two guns that are being shot and talked about are both shooting high/ left which aint part of USFA's program.
Colt sold off a lot of parts and we saw a few folks that should know claiming, "that was normal". Hard to believe that is normal for a company that is so back logged and slow at production. Not heard they sold off tooling as well. If true that does not bode well for the Colt SAA in its current form.
I have been told that there are still many guns left on the custom shop back order list with 1/2 the $ down on them and folks have been waiting a long time already. Buddy was just told another year on his custom shop gun as Colt was waiting for frames. Frames mind you....frames.
May be they are waiting for Standard to tool up and do a Colt size frame. Standard has already said that was going to happen in the future. USFA did prior along with a number of extremely good 1st Gen Colt parts. May be they are waiting for a shipment from Pietta. Pietta's 2nd Gen frame would be an easy gimme for Colt and could have happened yesterday. For Colt's current SAA guns some one besides Colt is building the frames since Colt does not have the ability to forge a SAA frame these days which again...even Colt has admitted to.
Kinda reminds me of building cars on a 1950's Ford production line. Nice old cars just dated. One day someone notices the 1950s cars a little long in tooth compared to the new Fords they are building else where in the plant on a 2018 production line. Some one says, "Wow!" What do ya do? Try to modernize the 1950's production line or just shit can it all and start over with modern machines, that require little hand fitting and only 20% of your prior work force? Less costs involved, less skilled labor, higher production.....higher margins and a better product. Easy to see where modern corporate America would go. Colt Industries on the other hand has never been good at business.
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https://www.gunbroker.com/item/775407318
Thought I would add this “EYEtalian” specimen to the discussion. I occasionally peruse the completed listings on Gunbroker to stay up to speed, so to speak, on current market values. Here lately, I’m seeing prices consistently rising on these earlier parts/Uberti guns and even the dreaded USPFA’s. Not sure if this is due to growing demand coupled with ill-informed buyers (check out the sellers discription on this one) or simply all things USFA, gaining unilateral recognition for quality. Are “collectors” paying $1,300.00++ for Italian USFA’s because they can’t tell the difference, or are these early guns legitimately gaining traction?
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Early in my pursuit of USFAs I got burned by an Italian parts gun, just because I didn't know any better. I'm willing to bet there are quite a few people like that who either don't know about the earlier USPFAs vs the late production, all US made parts USFSAs.
Dave
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It is unfortunate that we must go through life always on the presumption that everyone is a liar or dishonest, such as with this gun. I know it is supposed to be "caveat emptor", but it dismays me that a LOT of sellers are of this stature. It is bad in all forms of purchase, whether it be guns, cars, gold, antiques, etc.
I have succumbed to the deception myself on USFA's, but it was after all a learning process. I really feel for the individual who has scrimped and saved to buy one of these guns as described by VoyPescado, just to be taken by what is unmistakably, a thief.
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Colt went off the rails many years ago when they got on the government teat building GI 1911s and ARs and totally forgot about the civilian gun buyer. Then they even gave away their 1911 market, the one thing that they were very good at. And then when sass and cas came on the scene they again gave away the SA market, something they were also good at and had a true market, to the Italians and Bill Ruger. My last new Colt was one of their retro 1911 reproductions. My last old Colt buy was a 7.5 in .38-40 New Service. As much as we want to see Colt survive and be competitive and build the guns we want it ain’t gonna happen. They’ve had a bunch of chances to turn things around and can’t seem to.
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Regarding: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/775407318
Does it have Armory Blue or just regular Dome Blue? If it's an Italian parts Pre-War with Armory Blue then $1395 is not a horrible price. A 100% USA Pre-War with Armory Blue and black powder frame would be $2000 or more.
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Regarding: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/775407318
Does it have Armory Blue or just regular Dome Blue? If it's an Italian parts Pre-War with Armory Blue then $1395 is not a horrible price. A 100% USA Pre-War with Armory Blue and black powder frame would be $2000 or more.
From the seller:
No imported parts that I know of on this beauty.
Seller is clueless one way or the other. Since the entire gun is obviously "imported parts". Pity the fool that bought that one.
Doesn't matter to me what the finish is on that gun. It is nothing more than the shoddy built Uberti of that time frame. Which were terrible guns back then. It is NOT an Italian parts gun that we talk about when discussing USFA. That one is simply an early Italian/Uberti gun with a better finish that USFA started selling at triple what a Uberti cost at the time. Very early Uberti hammer ( the worst version) with a safety on the gun and all the things that Uberti has since fixed thanks to being involved with the later USFA. I wouldn't touch a USPFA gun with your money let alone mine. No way in hell that one was worth $1400 when you can buy a USFA USA made Rodeo for less. It won't being going up in price to anyone that has even a tiny bit of knowledge on the refinished Uberti imports when a current Uberti is twice the gun and 1/3 the price.
A strong opinion...but all mine :)
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Boy, sure wish Yahoody would just come right out and tell us how he REALLY feels about this one!
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Just though I'd add some facts to the ongoing discussion of how the prices are in the after market USFA world.
I know of several very nice USA made USFA guns that have sold for over $2500. Just an FYI for those that might think the prices are going to drop with a new player in production.
My take from the limited feed back on the other guys is they are gonna be playing catch up for some time yet.
Your are RIGHT
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When the Standard Mfg. guns came along I thought it might ease some the upward pressure on USFA prices but looking through GunBroker, GunsAmerica, & GunsInternational recently the asking prices seem to be getting worse if anything. Don't know if anyone is paying the near $3K asking prices for some but they sure aren't getting any cheeper.
Dave