Advice on lube for pp'd bullets

[littlejack]

   Good evening to you all:
  I sized some of my Lyman 535 grain Postell bullets this eve down to .452. I have eleven of ww's and eleven of 20-1 alloy. I just finished paper patching them to try later this week in my 45-70. Seeing as I do not have any lube cookies, would it be OK to roll a small ball of bp lube and drop it in on top of the opw ( after compressing) then seat the bullet on top. Another question, is it OK to leave some gap between the base of the bullet and the opw so as to not squash out all of the lube in between?  Burnin black powder.
                                                                                Jack

[Ranch 13]

If you wipe between shots with something like 50-50 water and antifreeze, or moosemilk, etc, be sure and run a dry patch after the wets, you can get by without lube cookies.
 I like to use a lubed felt wad under the bullet.

[littlejack]

  Thanks Don:
  I am assuming that you do not wipe between shots using the felt wad? Maybe bowtube?
  Another question: These bullets mic out at .458-.459 with the patch dry. Is this going to be suitable for bp loads?
 Thanks for the reply's.
                                                   Jack

[Advertising]

[Ranch 13]

 I can either blowtube or wipe, or when hunting and a second shot is necessary, to quote Bill Bagwell " you can shoot em dirty"

[drcook]

An acquaintance of ours put this together.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/PPB.htm

the following link is to be able to buy a book on shooting paper patched loads. I have a copy and it is
my OPINION that it is a good resource to purchase

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,2065.htm

Dave

[littlejack]

  Thankls guys:
  More questions?
  Would it be wise to put a wax paper piece between the powder and lube wad to protect the powder from the lube? Also, to put a wax paper piece between the lube wad and the base of the bullet to keep the lube wad from sticking to the base of the bullet?
                                                                          Jack

[john boy]

These bullets mic out at .458-.459 with the patch dry. Is this going to be suitable for bp loads?

Jack, shoot them and see how they group.  A wrapped PP round though should have the bullet no more than 0.003 larger than the lands of your rifle.**  I start with a naked bullet that is 0.446 - then wrap it to 0.453 for a rifle that has 0.450 lands

**Paul Matthews goes into the details of this in his The Paper Jacket book, which is a MUST read for folks starting out PP'ing IMHO

Would it be wise to put a wax paper piece between the powder and lube wad to protect the powder from the lube? Also, to put a wax paper piece between the lube wad and the base of the bullet to keep the lube wad from sticking to the base of the bullet?

  Yes, this is advisable.  Some folks use 0.030 or 0.060 fiber wads in lieu of using wax paper also

Kind of neat having real time responses to one's questions, especially what I was keying in the first part 

[drcook]

**Paul Matthews goes into the details of this in his The Paper Jacket book, which is a MUST read for folks starting out PP'ing IMHO
 

that's why I posted the link to go directly to The Paper Jacket on BACO's website 

dc

[littlejack]

  Thanks again for the quick responses.
 I can't believe it. I looked all over town and couldn't find any 100% wool felt to make my wads. I went to three fabric stores, four Good Wills and or St. Vincent dePaul two apolstery shops. Nothing. I then went to the Gun Works. That is the only bp, muzzel loader, bpcr shop in town. They wanted from 7.00$ to 9.00$ for 100 lube wads. I refuse to pay more for my wads than I do for my bullets. I will wait for an old Felson hat to show up or something else, so I can make my own.
  Oh yea, I was going to ask again. Does a lube cookie work as well as a lube wad? I can put a ball of lube on top of the compressed opw and seat the bullet to that. Do I have to leave some gap to NOT squash out the lube between the bullet and the opw?
  Still having lots of fun though.
                                                                             Jack

[drcook]

Why can't you make your own lube cookies. You can put 2 wood rulers, or popsicle sticks or what ever
of the same thickness in the desired thickness that you want, and then roll out a sheet of lube to cut
the cookies from. The rules (or whatever) control the thickness. A sheet of wax paper over the lube
will keep it from sticking to your wife's (or your) rolling pin or 1" minimum dia. dowel that you bought
from Lowes or Home Despot or whichever store you have in your area.

You could buy to cheap combination squares of the same make and then you would have 2 12"
steel rules to use.

Then take one of your too short cases, bevel the case mouth inside and out to make it a little sharper
and then cut it off a little ways up. Then as you punch down through, they eventually would just pop
out the top. You would have to experiment to see if you could punch them out without leaving the
was paper to see if they would stick together.

If you bought the combo square from Big and Small lots, Harbor Freight, or other perveyor of cheap
chinese tools (some cheap is good) I bet you could come up with an arrangement quite cheap. And I
know dowels are pretty cheap to get.

These then would be precision cut lube cookies, each being the same as the last. If you simply tried to
put a ball of lube and then squish it down, you would lose the cartridge to cartridge consistency that is
so highly required to wring the utmost accuracy out of these rifles.


dc
 

[john boy]

Jack, here's your source for felt ... http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html
About 5 years ago, Asha the owner, was kind enough to allow us to order smaller quantities.
Look around here, she has some other neat felt items ... http://www.durofelt.com

Then punch them out and lube

[littlejack]

  Dang-it dr, I hadn't even thought of that. That would be way easy. I can do that. What is the main difference in the way that the lube cookie works compared to how the lube wad works. Is it just one's own preference as to what they use or does one have an advantage over the other?
 

[littlejack]

  John boy:
  Thanks for the web page on the felt.
                                            Jack

[john boy]

What is the main difference in the way that the lube cookie works compared to how the lube wad works. Is it just one's own preference as to what they use or does one have an advantage over the other?

Jack, I equate it this way ... personal preference.  Some folks swear using a GC and others say a greased felt wad works.  I've tried both and lean towards the felt wad.  Give the medium 1/16 a try.  Aisha used to have 1/32 (0.034) that I like for both PP and BPCR but she doesn't have it anymore

[littlejack]

  I didn't have a felt hat to punch holes in, so I made me some grease cookies. They are .125 thich, with my Emmerts lube. After making them, I proceded in loading the twenty-two paper patched bullet loads. I used 66 grains of Goex Ctg. drop tubed. I put a waxed .020 milk carton wad over the powder and compressed .250. I then seated the gc by hand on top of the opw. I then seated the pp'd bullet to 2.900 col. I will wait untill next week to shoot them as the temperature at the range will be between 95-100 degrees. To hot for me. Take care.
                                                                               Jack

[drcook]

Jack,

there is the possibility that the grease cookie could need to be thicker. I think that Brent (in his
write up that I gave you the link for above) said he used grease cookies over .300 thick. But his
rifle (at the time if I remember correctly) was a 45-100.

now I am not trying to give a hint, just saying don't be afraid to experiment or give up on grease
cookies and PP bullets because one combination didn't work.

I have some papers and some sample bullets my friend Tom in Pa sent me. You folks are going to
downright shame me into giving them a try.

Plus the coolness factor of a paper patched 45-110 is just off the charts.

dc

[littlejack]

  drcook, Not trying to shame anyone , just trying to squeeze the most accurate load in my rifle. I would really like to have a swaging press and the proper dies to make the proper pp'd bullet.
                                                                                                 Jack

[drcook]

I was trying to say that I need to get some motivation and try it out. I even have the brass mostly
prepped. I have some stretched .348 brass that is going to be for paper patching and some stretched
Starline for grease groove bullets. The .348 brass tends to split when sized and shot a couple times.

dc

[Mossyrock]

Jack,

I hope you haven't ordered that Duro-Felt yet!!!!!!!  PM me your address, and I will send you some.  I have enough for 14 life-times!  I bought what I thought was a fairly small sheet of it for my BP revolvers...HA!  HUGE sheet!  Let me know....

[john boy]

I have enough for 14 life-times!

Mossyrock ... shoot more and get it down to 10 life-times.    I'm a great fan of felt wads for BPCR ... my large sheets have dwindled fast, even more since I started shooting a 50-70 and using pieces as rubbing pads for stock refinishing projects