Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => 1860 Henry => Topic started by: Major 2 on May 01, 2014, 06:03:05 PM
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At the request of Fox Creek Kid, and since all extra copies of the 2014 Winter Issue of NCOWS Shootist are now gone...
I'll post the review here : I hope you enjoy it :)
Henry Repeating Arms Co. M1860 Rifle Review by: Roger Ragland
I began to experience the excitement of a child on Christmas morning and found myself quickened of step as I approached Signal Zero Supplies, my friendly Federal Firearms Licensed dealer.
Earlier in the day, I had received a letter that the Henry Repeating Arms Model 1860 Henry had arrived.
At my request, Mr. Anthony Imperato CEO of Henry Repeating Arms, had personally seen to it, their latest product was sent to me to review for the National Congress of Old West Shooters and a gun test article for the Shootist the National Magazine.
There before me was the box with the HENRY brand Logo, and a label "Henry Original Henry" Model H011 MADE IN THE USA.
I carefully opened the box with anticipation, and my first reaction as I parted the wrappings ... Pards they got it right !
I was first drawn to the figure of the Walnut stock, and a snug fitting black cloth sleeve encasing the receiver.
The barrel is roll engraved, Henry's Patent Oct.16th.1860 Cal. 44/40 Henry Repeating Arms Bayonne N.J. U.S.A. in one line.
The Gun....
I have the opportunity to compare the new Henry Repeating Arms H011 Henry with 3 of Uberti's Henry offerings.
In a side by side visual tour, I noted the H011 butt stock was thicker at the comb. I also noted the rise from the wrist was taller and further rearward from the Uberti models. I compared the silhouette to some high resolution photos of several original Henrys, and found the H011 stock is very close in the originals shape and profile.
The H011 has a somewhat different balance point; I believe this due to both the thicker butt and perhaps the density of the flame burl walnut. I found the balance point pleasing allowing the Rifle to shoulder and point very nicely.
In comparison the Uberti balance point seems to be somewhat muzzle heavy.
The wood itself is eye catching, the likes of fine Presentation rifles and shotguns; it is simply stunning with a satin oil finish.
The brass butt plate has the trap door and is bored to except a cleaning rod assembly, though it's not included.
The rear sight is a ladder design for both manufacturers. The H011 has a square notch where the Uberti sight is V notched, all have a German silver front sight thought the H011 sight it seems ever so slightly thicker. The square notch makes for fine sight picture over the OEM Uberti V sight with my eyes. The function of the sight is smooth & light and stops at each detente setting.
The H011 is chambered in 44/40 and cycles nicely. The action is smooth though bit on the heavy spring side.
Barrel is nicely polished and blued, fit & finish is quite good, as it is on the three Uberti offerings in this comparison.
The H011 receiver is highly polished and finished brightly.
Henry H011 Action : Lever
Caliber : 44-40
Barrel Length : 24 1/4 "
Capacity : 13 +1
Length : 43 3/4"
Weight : 9.03 lbs.
Finish: Blued
Number of Grooves: 6 Twist: Right
Uberti Henry Action : Lever
Caliber : 44-40 & 45 Colt
Barrel Length : 24 3/8 "
Capacity : 13+1
Length: 43 3/4”
Weight: 9 lbs.
Finish: Blue
Number of Grooves: 6 Twist: Right
At the range...
The rifle arrived in padded shipping carton wrapped in brown dry silicone paper. The first order of business as I normally do with a new gun was to, of course check if it is unloaded then clean and lubricate.
Generally, I use a product like Break-Free, Gun Scrubber or the like.
I liberally flood the actions nooks & crannies and allow it to drain. I’ll swab the barrel a few strokes and follow that with Gibbs Lube and a final clean patch down the barrel.
I realize it is over kill, but it’s a tradition that has served me well.
So with the gun cleaned and joined by NCOWS members Bill “Cherokee Bodie” Cunningham and Capt’n’ John Holmes, I arrived at the range with the three Henry’s.
The new HRA H011 and two Uberti Henry's, a military model and a Iron frame model . Bill also brought his main match Uberti Henry 44/40. The photo op was obvious, But it also gave us the chance to compare the shooting qualities of both makes.
I had at my disposal, three boxes of different factory loading's and some hand-loaded black powder loads by Cherokee Bodie ( Cracker Cow Cavalry ).
The Factory brands are Black Hills, Ultramax, and Magtech, all are Cowboy lead loading's courtesy of Capt'n' John also of Cracker Cow Cavalry.
The Black Hills is a 200 Grain RNFP, The Ultramax is also 200 Grain RNFP and the Magtech is flat nose 225 Grain pill. The Black Powder loads are full case ( no filler ) 32 grains of 2 FF topped with a 200 grain SPG lubed flat nose lead bullet.
We set a large torso silhouette out at 100 feet, and decided to shoot offhand as this is the normal position for most NCOWS style action.
We loaded the Black Hills offering first and each of us fired three go arounds. Each of us went for a different area on the target. Bill shot center mass, John a head shot and I, well lets say "below the belt". The factory loaded Black Hills happened to be some older stock, the price tag still affix stated $24.95 for the box of 50 . A price not seen in these parts in some years, well below the current going retail rate.
I guess it was at least 8 years old. The H011 handled this product with a reasonable grouping of about 3.75 for the three shooters, Remember off hand at 100'.
I suppose I should mention the weather was a breezy 76 degrees and threatening rain, the wind was directly into our face. Next we loaded the Ultramax; we had the best results and the only misfire with this brand. I shot a 3" group and experienced the only misfire. I re-chambered the well dimpled round, to confirm it was not a light tap, the round failed again , and it also failed in the test Uberti. Lastly we loaded the Magtech 225 Grain, I expected these rounds to print a bit lower but in fact held POA at 100' , John posted a 4" group which I duplicated. Overall, I'd give the nod to the Ultramax, but in honesty , off hand in a breeze nothing was all that scientific or methodical.
Next we moved to Berm # 7 which is a covered 6 store front town walk , here we had the 8" knock down targets set up at 36 feet. Loading 10 rounds (Ultramax) we shot what might be a standard stage for a rifle. Bill went first and hit 8 of ten shooting high twice. John and then I followed shooting clean. John unused to the Henry snuffle stumbled on the last round.
The H011 cycled smoothly with no other hiccups.
Time for the Holy Black, we loaded Bill's hand loaded 32 Grain 2FF reloads , the H011 digested these just as well as it had the factory loading's. Bill was deadly; first he cleaned the targets with his own Henry, and then repeated with the H011. . John and I both were clean but Bill was faster, the man knows his loads. We had grand time choking smoke and the Guns never balked aside from the one faulty Ultramax round. As the clouds and rain closed in we gathered our impressions of the new Rifle....
In conclusion:
We noticed the action seem to get even smoother as we shot it. The gun shoulders, points and sights very nicely. The H011 digested and ejected every round I ran through it including the reloads.
On examination of the brass, the firing pin dimpled the primers well and just tick off dead center.
I did not witness any blow by into the receiver from the soot of the black powder while cleaning the rifle.
Henry Repeating Arms has produced a very nice replica of the Original 1860. I'm happy to see the Henry return to be made in the good old USofA. I hope it is a trend and we'll see more of the old iconic firearms brands that were deemed obsolescent or abandoned return to us.
Tyler B. Henry would be proud... welcome home !
Update:
I felt I had left a bit of my review on the table...So the next day, I traveled to the Public Range in Bravard Co. stopping in at The Ammo Attic in Melbourne on the way, I picked up a box of Magtech Cowboy 44/40 200 Grain RNFP and some Day Glo Targets . The Magtech RNFP we used the day before was 225 grains, so this was still another round to experiment with. I borrowed a leather bench rest and set my paper target at 100 yards on the rifle range. I loaded just 5 rounds at a time, so to not impede the magazine follower. From a seated position, I set the ladder sight at 100 yards and taking my time, carefully aimed and squeezed off a shot. The H011 shot centered and about 3 " low, but I had 4 shots in rather tight with one flyer. I reloaded and adjusted my hold and position a couple of times, till I had some nice groups. My eyes don't really focus like they once did, but I could see the dayglow green 6" bulleyes , 3 1/2 " groups seemed pretty common.
On the Bench, I could hold steady and was rewarded with my best 2 3/4 " 5 shot Group, with 2 close enough to create a ragged hole. I think I'll be happy with that....considering open sights and old eyes.
Oh ! and it was a little breezy and a steady drizzle/rain all day, The covered facility was most welcome.
Thanks to:
John Holmes
Bill Cunningham
and
Signal Zero Supplies
St Cloud, Florida 407-891-9136
www.SIGNALZERO.BIZ
and special Thanks to:
Mr. Anthony Imperato CEO of Henry Repeating Arms
59 East 1st Street
Bayonne, NJ 07002
http://www.henryrepeating.com/
* I'd like to point out, since I wrote this in November 2013 I have put some 700 rounds through this Henry ( about 500 Smokeless and the remainder BP reloads ) I can report no issues.
update: July 31, 2015 I am fast approaching 2 years with is Henry, time flies when its fun.
I have now put quite a few more rounds through the H011 ...some where a tad south of 1900 I guess.
Still pleased , I have found I learned to shoot tighter , I've had no issues , it remains box stock.
I have darken the bright front sight and my groups improved, I'm inside 1 3/4 " at 100 yards benched .
UPDATE June 6 , 2019
6 years now , still the gun performs flawlessly, though of late I only used Black Hills 44/40 cowboy loads.
I had a case and the Henry is the only gun I have in 44/40 anymore.
However since I got this rifle, In non related trade I got a Henry Golden Boy in 22, it was as new in box, only thing I did is swap out the 14" length of pull butt for the youth 13" LOP ( $65 w/ hardware from HRA) this made the rifle easier to shoulder for me... and fun gun to plink.
I'm quite a fan if HRA .
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Great review & thanks. ;)
Question: do you feel it is more authentic in detail than an Uberti? ???
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I think the stock profile is closer to the Early Henry's ...
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But is it worth the $2,300.00 MSRP?
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I've seen it listed below MSRP .... If you value, USA made then....yeah .....course I also own 3 Uberti Henry's :)
However, you have to decide that for yourself....
I have since improved my 100 yard groups ( I feel the 200 Grain Magtech was to light )
I grouped a tight 1 3/4 " with new Winchester Cowboy 44-40 WCF 225 Grain Lead Flat Nose....
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Thanks for a great review. I have a Navy Arms (Ridgfield NJ) Uberti Henry and love it. My son picked up a Uberti iron frame a couple of years back. Nice guns. I'll be keeping an eye out for the new Henry Henry.
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Major,
I am shooting 200 grain .427 cast bullets in mine. Have you slugged the barrel on yours, or do you feel it is even necessary to do so?
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I haven't cast any lead in years...I used to cast for my Sharps.
I'm inside 1 3/4 " at 100 yards , I don't think I could do any better... so I haven't slugged.
I think the 200 grain Magtech is OK for WAS, but reaching out there I found the heavier Win. 225 is the better choice...
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I'm coming up on the 1 year mark , having picked up my H011 at my FFL.... :)
Frankly, I have not shot it or any long gun since mid-July due to a torn Rotator cuff >:(
and I have missed it :(
I'm often asked , is it worth the MSRP... well I can't fairly answer as I paid no where near MSRP
That is best answered by the person and his wallet....
Am I glad to have one ?.... absolutely
Glad it's American made ?....absolutely, fine product
just as glad to have my Uberti's too ( did not pay MSRP for those either )
Proud owner of both manufacturer's ;D
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I asked and got a reply back from Jeff at Henry Repeating Arms and he said that the rate of twist is 1-36.
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http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/henry-rifles-c-1316_1424_1534_1555.html
in stock @ $1819.00
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http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/henry-rifles-c-1316_1424_1534_1555.html
in stock @ $1819.00
Interesting they refer to it as 16 + 1 rounds. I don't think so.
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;D Maybe they're shooting 44-20's ;D
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;D Maybe they're shooting 44-20's ;D
that is probably true. LOL
Mine actually holds 19 blanks.
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Has anyone handled the deluxe engraved model? Is that hand engraved or laser?
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Has anyone handled the deluxe engraved model? Is that hand engraved or laser?
Cabelas here in Fort Worth has one but I have not handled it.
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hand engraved
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My local gun shop is a full line Henry dealer but hasn't kept any of the Original rifle in stock for me to look at. Apparently what few he has gotten in were spoken for so I was just trying to figure out what to order, plain or fancy. I talked to him earlier and found out he has one of each on order so when they come in I can have first choice of either.
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My .45 Colt Uberti Henry will hold 16 rounds of .45 S&W (Schofield). Perhaps that is the reference?
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Is that with one in the pipe? I shoot 45 S&w's as well, but it strikes me I get 15.
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I have one of the H011D "deluxe engraved" editions. I'm pretty sure its laser engraved, then the scroll work is gone over by hand. I've taken it out shooting only once. It shoots awesome. Standing at 50 yards, I was holding 2 inch groups. The range I was at only had bench shooting at 100 yds. I didn't put alot of rounds through it at that range, because I wanted to spend time on my 1903 Mark I. The rifle is beautiful, if you can just keep all of the hand prints off of it. I had some problems chambering rounds at first, but after I put a few rounds down range, the problem worked itself out. My wife bought the rifle for my birthday. She got it a few hundred under MSRP. I do not have a uberti. I have wanted an 1860 since Lonesome Dove came out when I was a young boy. Once I saw they were being made in America again, I had to have one. But, I never would have dropped that kind of bread. My wife on the other hand, spent if for me. I love the rifle, it shoots great, its made in America, and I have always wanted one. To me, its worth every penny and I would not have bought a Uberti. They are fine rifles, I just have a made in America kick. As a shooting, using rifle though, they are an old design with lots of problems. So, if you are looking for something to use for action packed, long range, shooting/hunting, there are better rifles to spend your money on. However, for the classic, fun to shoot, piece of art, they are worth it. Original Henry's are rare, old, and have made their spot in history, that is why they are worth so much. These new Henry's are none of those things, I don't think they will be collector's firearm in 100 years. I have no problem shooting mine and will use it as I see fit. I wouldn't spend the money on one, thinking that you are buying some collector dream that is only going to climb in value.
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Major 2: Great review. From the several I've seen in the last month at area gun shows (North/Central Iowa), the quality is 'top shelf'. I think HRA has hit the bullseye in a copy of the original. There could be a few minor ones, but as with all their products, the quality is there and so is the customer service if need be. Price was around $1800. If I were in the hunt and real need for a Henry, I'd buy one. Of course, there will be the naysayers who will 'pick' at ever square inch of the rifle as they do with all of HRA rifles. I say to them, if you don't like it, go buy a Uberti. There are things about them that isn't exactly 'as the original' either. If they really want to bitch about HRA, an American company producing a product that can't be found anywhere, except the imported ones-go drain your savings account an buy an original, that'll satisfy their lust for a Henry that looks every bit a Henry.
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NCOWS legal
Winchester Models 1860, 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, and 1892 manufactured by Armi San Marco,
Uberti, and others
Winchester ’94s if they retain the physical characteristics and appearance of 1894 models
manufactured prior to 1899, in approved cartridges.
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Major 2:
NCOWS legal
Winchester Models 1860, 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, and 1892 manufactured by Armi San Marco,
Uberti, and others
I stand corrected. Yours, Crow Choker
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Thanks, Roger. Great review. Fast forward to 2017, I have never seen an HRA 1860 Henry for sale at any price.
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Thanks, Roger. Great review. Fast forward to 2017, I have never seen an HRA 1860 Henry for sale at any price.
The Melbourne Florida, Bass Pro has sold a couple. But my Stocking Henry Dealer here, has not stocked one and has only received mine.
HRA is also offering an engraved model & and a Steel Frame....
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having read all the previous comments and stored them away in my head, i had a chance check one out for my self this weekend. the gunshop was low on patrons so i ask to handle the one they had. it was the (iron)steel frame version. it took me less than 2 minutes to realize there was no "WOW" factor here for me. at $2100 it was totally lacking. i found the modern font choice for the barrel lettering distasteful, the rear sight staff was loose on the pivot pin when flipped up, the color case was a cheap cyanide job that had freckles, and lastly the choice of wood a poor one. also the butt stock seemed in need more wood removal around the comb as it had a club look and feel. just not seeing the 2x cost here over my iron uberti, really too bad as i am always willing to spend more for american.
for ref. check out the original iron frame that James Julia had on their site:
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1176-rare-iron-frame-henry-model-1860-lever-action-rifle-47622/
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I just bought a brass frame 1860 Henry a few weeks ago. It has the most gorgeous polish and bluing I've seen in many, many years. It looks much like the old Colt Royal Blue. The brass is extremely well machined and with a mirror polish. The wood on the buttstock is outstanding - it would be fancy or extra fancy with most gun makers. In short, it's the prettiest rifle I've ever owned.
I've put a few dozen rounds through it and easily hit targets offhand at 100 yards with it, and the action is extremely smooth right from the box. I'm looking forward to shooting my first CAS match with it this weekend. If it continues to perform half as good as it looks, then the price will be well worth the extra when compared to a Uberti. They're not even in the same zip code as far as aesthetics - not to mention being American made.
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Every person is entitled to his personal preferences and tastes.
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My LGS has sold a few and there was even one at the local Cabelas last time I was there. The problem is the recent ones I've seen look horrible because they are terribly over buffed. All the sharp edges on the octagon barrel are rounded.
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The Melbourne Bass Pro has sold a few ... $1795. not the MSRP of $2100
The three I've seen there were fine ...no over polish .... they had an engraved one too, it's gone , don't know the $
I own 4 , three Uberti's & the one HRA ... Frankly, I could care less if Luigi in Gardone' or Antonio in New Jersey builds them....
I like them all , they are all mine and all shoot just fine
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kwilliams1876, your criticisms are valid. Curiosity was just getting the best of me, and I broke down and ordered one--a brass-framed one. Prices seemed to have fallen enough below MSRP on these now that more of us are taking the plunge--they still cost more than Uberti, but only a few hundred dollars more instead of twice the price like they used to be. I'll post some pics on another post very soon and perhaps upload a little something on my youtube channel as well. But my first impressions are that it is indeed overbuffed--especially on the barrel flats. This is annoying and only partly offset by the resultant beauty of the bluing. As another noted, it is almost like Colt's royal blue in quality.
I don't think some of the receiver contours are quite as authentically-executed as the Uberti guns--at least not on my example. But the polish job was pretty well done here, and it isn't as wavy as I feared. They actually did a pretty good job on keeping the flats flat on the receiver.
Yes, the barrel font isn't "period", but it doesn't bother me. The rear sight, however, IS poorly sprung and wobbles considerably when elevated. It either needs to have closer tolerances in its mount side-to-side or utilize a stronger detent spring. I think either would settle it down considerably.
The fella at my LGS who received the rifle was impressed with how smooth the action was. Although smoother out-of-the-box than my last Uberti, it needs work. Coffinmaker, you may be glad to know that I'm going to strip this one down and give you some good pics of the innards. In other words, I'm going to do for you what I've been hoping in vain someone else would do for me. I know it sounds like poor money management, but it was un-satiated curiosity that most prompted me to fork over the dough and buy this thing; there just isn't enough good info on the internet, and most reviews only include a few pics without going into enough detail about how they're put together.
I have to say, this has the nicest wood I've ever owned on a firearm. That, and the lustrous blue is probably going to make me forego my original plans to let the brass tarnish. I don't think the rifle will look right with a mustard-colored receiver.
Sorry I have no pics tonight. I burned my hand heat-treating a small part on another rifle tonight. I was just going to knock out that small chore before reviewing the Henry in earnest, but the burn was bad enough to curtail any serious disassembly stuff tonight. More later.....
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was strolling past the gun counter in the Billings Cabelas yesterday, noticed a brass frame in the rack. i asked to handle it, as it's being passed to me the first thing that jumps out to the eye is the front sight is in stalled backwards! yikes, further review again reveals a wobbly rear sight and hugely over buffed barrel with all the flats rounded off and then there is the bulbous stock. this is the 3rd one i have had a chance to handle, and as i noted in a prior post, there is no "wow factor" here for me. sure seems to me the the Qa/Qc department at HRA must be asleep. i would never have the courage to order one sight unseen. as far as American made Mfg. goes, they could take some lessons from C. Sharps or Shiloh.
kw
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I hope to post a video this week on my first outing with the HRA 1860. In the meantime, I have to say that I was very favorably impressed. Despite the "wobbly" rear sight, accuracy was not affected. I was regularly ringing the gong at 270 yards with a mild smokeless load that was only producing about 950 fps. out of the rifle--and this was without adjusting windage at all! HRA certainly knows how to make a good barrel! This rifle was a real pleasure to shoot, and it is fast becoming a favorite--overbuffing notwithstanding. I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out a few hundred dollars more for this one than a comparable Uberti. In my Youtube video, I was obviously a little dismayed at finding MIM parts on the inside, but that doesn't matter anymore. This rifle can shoot, and it looks good doing it.
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I have handled three of them.
I think they are OK .
Its great that HRA made them and that they are Made in America .
But to be Honest ,
I dont think they are worth that much money .
Im very fond of My Old Used Uberti 44/40
Rooster
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I've owned one for 4 years and 3 Uberti's , one for 18 years and another 10 years ....an another one I had bought in1 980, that I sadly sold.
It is great that HRA made makes them and that they are Made in America .
I too am fond of my Uberti's , I'm just as fond of the HRA and value it , it's worth is in owning one.
It's a good thing there are choices..... Uberti , Pietta own the market in Replica's of SSA as an example ....
much to the dismay of USFA , Standard and yes ! even Colt..."worth that much money " ? you ask ?