Do I Qualify for BOSS Membership?

[Yankee John]

Hi folks!  I have been reading the posts in this forum for quite some time,  but have never shot or owned a top-break S&W type revolver.  That changed today.....

For what I thought was a bargain price (a couple hundred bucks), I was able to buy a period Belgian copy of the S&W DA, in caliber 44-40.   The seller describes it as tight and has shot BP loads with it,  although he says it has a minor cylinder timing problem.

I will have it in my grubby hands by the end of the week.   A few of the seller's pics  are below.

As a noob to this type of revolver, all input and advice is greatly appreciated!

John

[Yankee John]

Here is a couple more pics.

[gw]

Joss you're 100% correct about the original springs on the old S&W and copies thereof, they're  Heavy! Sure, I could probably change them out for something lighter, but then I wouldn't experience the same thing that somebody who bought one back in the day did either. Have I also mentioned that the sights are minscule too? All told, these are about one of the hardest handguns to shoot well of that era. Be very careful shooting your's rapid fire Y.J., especially if it has any timing problem at all. I know Will Ketchem has a copy similar to your's, not sure if it's Belgium or Spanish though.

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[Irish Dave]

GW's right.

I also have a Smith DA 44 "Frontier" (.44-40) and it is not for the weak.

The mainspring is indeed very heavy in DA mode and it also can be a handful with full BP loads.
These are very cool old guns but as for shooting mine in a match, I would not be confident that I would be able to hit much in DA mode with any kind of even modest speed. It probably can be done with lots of practice, but I really don't want to stress this ol' pistol to the extent it would take for me to become that proficient with it.

[Yankee John]

Thanks for the input and advice folks!   I am still anxiously waiting for it to come in the mail- I should be here by Friday.

In the meanwhile,  I'm trying to find all the info that I can in these S&W-type DA's.  Not a whole lot of stuff out there on them,  although there is a fair amount of info in the book "Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West" by David Chicoine.

Thanks again,
John

[Yankee John]

Well,  The Belgian 44-40 "Frontier" came in the mail Monday.  Overall I am pleased with it, especially considering the price I paid.  I discovered that it was made by the Belgian firm of Theate T & Co. (TT&C) somewhere between 1894 and 1907.  It still has about 50% nickel finish remaining, nice grips, and a good bore.

Now for the bad news:  It has definately been shot a lot with smokeless cartridges     The frame is definately stretched a bit as evidenced by cylinder end shake, and a substantial cylinder-to-barrel gap.  I would have to get an experienced gunsmith to look at it to determine if it can be repaired, or if I now have a wallhanger. 

I'm sure it can be fixed- But how much money do I want to put into it?  Anyone know of a S&W top-break gunsmith that would be willing to check out my Belgian clone?

Here's a couple more pics.

John

[Yankee John]

Thanks for the input Joss!  I whipped out my trusty digital calipers and feeler guages and measured some of the specifics:

- Cylinder to barrel gap= .060"
- "Headspace" (cylinder-to-recoil shield gap)= .060"
- Cylinder back-and-forth movement (on the cylinder pin)= .056"
- Cylinder base pin bore= .455"
- Base pin diameter= .445 (giving a base pin-to-cylinder clearance of .010")

When the cylinder is pushed all the way back toward the recoil shield, the indexing and action is like it is supposed to be.  From the looks it,  I should be able to shim the cylinder back on the base pin in order to eliminate the cylinder back-forth movement.

As far as the .010" cylinder-to-basepin clearance, is that too much?  If so, can the cylinder have a bushing pressed in,  or can I make an oversized cylinder base pin?  (The cylinder base pin appears to be just a hollow tube, pinned in place on the barrel).

Last question,  Are these revolvers supposed to be "free wheeling"?  At rest,  you can spin the cylinder freely;  There is nothing contacting the cylinder until you either pull the hammer back in SA-mode or pull the trigger in DA-mode.

Thanks again for your advice!

John

[Marshal Deadwood]

Joss,,,I have a cylinder to barrel space question.
Gunsmithing GUns of the Old West says .004 to .008 is proper for the gap space. I have a new Uberti Cattleman that is .009. Or well,,,a .008 guage will siip under and a .010 will not. I dont have a .009 guage leaf but it should be that.
The Cattleman is new, but you know how warrenty folks are,,I suspect they will not bother with it.
Is .009 unacceptable?
How would I state my concerns to the tech dept to have them replace the revolver.
Is it fixable without a 'replacement>;
Also, its new, unfired.
There is NO endshake,,,(back and forth on the pin movement) and no rotation slack.
The cylinder actually locks up more secure than any revolver iv ever seen, im just concerned with they  cylinder to barrel gap.

Id appreciate your imput on this.

Marshal Deadwood

[Marshal Deadwood]

Thanks Joss,,,I know my Cattleman was out of 'topic' here,,and I appologize,,but I saw you talking 'tech' stuff and just wanted to get your opinion.

I apprecite the reply sir.

Marshal Deadwood