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CAS TOPICS => Gunsmithing => Topic started by: Black River Smith on January 23, 2022, 01:57:07 PM

Title: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Black River Smith on January 23, 2022, 01:57:07 PM
If this is posted in the wrong section I will move it.  Thought it would be better here than in the Gun Review section

Please explain to me.... why a Rifle Design (Creasent buttplate; full forearm ending in a nosecap; and octagon barrel) with a 20" barrel length (instead of traditional 24") has become so popular and the mainstay production for most manufactures/suppliers?

On Gunbroker people have Cimarron 1866's in 38/40 with mainly 20" barrels.  Also, on Gunbroker there is a 1 of 500 NEW 1892 in 38/40 with a 20" barrel (don't know the manufacturer on this one).

I am looking for a traditional Rifle in 38/40 with 24" barrel and a lot of what I am see are 20" in what is my price range.  Yes, I do see the ones with 24" on Gunbroker but way too high for my blood and interests.

What gives with all the 20" Rifles now-a-days?  Is it only because of the 10-round limit imposed by many states?

Thanks for the general comments.
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Abilene on January 23, 2022, 02:31:42 PM
The shorter barrels started getting more popular due to CAS.  20" .357 '73's were all the rage for a while, then they started making 18" models which some switched to.  But that is only a part of the equation, especially since CAS is shrinking as far as new gun purchasers go.  The models for sale from the various importers is mostly customer driven.  They order what has been selling and what they have backorders for.  Looking historically at inventory and orders from Cimarron, there have been a more or less equal number of 24" barrels ordered versus 20", except for .357's which trend more to the shorter.  The prices are the same regardless of barrel length, so for used 24" to be higher priced than 20" is just an anomaly, IMO.  Because you happen to be looking for something that seems to be harder to find right now is just random variation, I would say.  Keep looking!  And if you are looking for a new gun, get on the backorder list of as many importers as you can while you continue looking for available deals.
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Baltimore Ed on January 23, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
Since making a Trapper out of my old unused 20 inch ‘94 .45colt carbine I have become a big fan of short barrel rifles. Prior to that I liked long barrel rifles and short barrel sg’s. My past 30 year go to cas rifle was a 24 inch 1894 Cowboy Limited .45. I’m surprisingly liking this shorty just as much. I do have to use Schofield loads to get the obligatory ten. Good luck on your hunt.
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 24, 2022, 09:08:51 AM

 :)  PLUS ONE for Abilene  ;)

Actually a really BIG PLUS ONE!!  CAS/SASS drove the popularity of 20" lever rifles.  And yes, it was because of the switch to 10 round rifle stages.  Lotta carbines only help 9.

Now.  Yep, now days, CAS/SASS guns are in short supply.  Everything except black rifles are in short supply.  So you are dealing with a sellers market and the sellers are trying to gouge all the profit they can from their rifles.  Sock it to you so to speak.  There is absolutely no "real" reason for current prices except supply and demand and the folks selling those rifles are selling for all they can screw you out of.

Play Safe Out There
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Black River Smith on January 25, 2022, 01:24:16 PM
I go thank you all for the comments.  I believe I will find what I want SOMEDAY.  Or Wil have something altered to the 38/40 chamber/barrel size.
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Black River Smith on January 25, 2022, 04:10:45 PM
I have a new question for you guys concerning this topic.  This is just a thought; crazy idea; or just wondering.

I have heard it stated around here and other forum that parts between the Cim 1866 and 1873 are somewhat interchangeable.

With that thought -- Is it possible to screw an 1866 - 24" barrel 38/40 from like VTI (if available) into an 1873 steel receiver that once had a  24" - 44/40 barrel on it and have it, time-out as is (ie - headspace)?  Would then all the existing necessary parts from the 44/40 fit into the corresponding 1866's - barrel groove cuts for the nose-cap tenon and magazine ring?  Ultimately lining-up/spacing-out properly.

Or just a totally DUMB idea?  Just fishing here for options.  Can handle the truth.
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Abilene on January 25, 2022, 05:48:58 PM
Yes it could be done.  I have heard of it being done with perfect headspace, which is good because if it wasn't then the re-aligning and chambering gets more expensive.  Maybe some gunsmiths who have actually done it will chime in.  The barrels are interchangeable and since you are staying with "large bore" the bolt and carrier will also match.

If you do something like that, you can always sell the original barrel to recoup some of your cost.
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 26, 2022, 09:50:20 AM

 :)  Black River Smith (Not Smythe)  ;)

Another Plus One for Abilene.  Several Lustrum ago, Uberti "standardized" throughout their offerings.  Rifles were most apparent.  Most ALL the individual parts with the exception of the actual receiver are interchangeable.  This was first noticed in the Inletting for the Tangs/Stocks.

As confirmed by Abilene, What you would like to do has been done (by several folks) and is not at all a "Dumb" idea.  Can be a really cost effective solution to your desire.

Play Safe Out There
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Black River Smith on January 26, 2022, 02:51:29 PM
Again, thanks you all for the comments and kindly sharing your knowledge.

This then gives me another route to look too.

BRS
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 27, 2022, 08:11:10 AM

 :)  Ah OOPS  ;)

Henry Barrels don't interchange.  Just remembered.

Play Safe Out There
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: bear tooth billy on January 31, 2022, 01:28:04 PM
Rock Island Auction probably always has what you're looking for, both
originals on their big auctions and repros on their smaller auctions


                         BTB
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: wildman1 on January 31, 2022, 04:44:23 PM
Rock Island Auction probably always has what you're looking for, both
originals on their big auctions and repros on their smaller auctions


                         BTB
Did you manage to make it to Tombstone this year?
wM1
Title: Re: Why Oh Why 20" octagon Barrel
Post by: greyhawk on March 08, 2022, 06:44:12 PM
I have a new question for you guys concerning this topic.  This is just a thought; crazy idea; or just wondering.

I have heard it stated around here and other forum that parts between the Cim 1866 and 1873 are somewhat interchangeable.

With that thought -- Is it possible to screw an 1866 - 24" barrel 38/40 from like VTI (if available) into an 1873 steel receiver that once had a  24" - 44/40 barrel on it and have it, time-out as is (ie - headspace)?  Would then all the existing necessary parts from the 44/40 fit into the corresponding 1866's - barrel groove cuts for the nose-cap tenon and magazine ring?  Ultimately lining-up/spacing-out properly.

Or just a totally DUMB idea?  Just fishing here for options.  Can handle the truth.

If their repeatability and Quality control is up to scratch in the factory it SHOULD work 

You would be lucky with older guns - the older the more lucky you would need to be I think.
 
I just did a barrel swap last week, one old 92 action to another - it was half a thread out - had to screw the barrel in an extra thread then take half a thread off the barrel face to get headspace - new 38/40 brass JUST chambered (a little tight about halfway down the slope from neck to shoulder) once fired its fine.  Its an old 73 barrel we cleaned up and rechambered - surprised me how well it shot.