Thinking of getting Big Lube mold

[LonesomePigeon]

I am thinking of getting the Big Lube Snakebite Greasewagon 158 grain mold for .38 Special. Mostly I would want to use it for black powder loads in .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases but if I did want to use it for smokeless loads what data would I use? Could I just use the same data the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has for any other 158 grain projectile?

[Gnalluggive]

I also wanna know the answer.
tiny fishing

[Lucky R. K.]

For the black powder loads just fill up the case with enough powder to allow a tiny bit of compression with the bullet. For smokeless loads consult the various reloading manuals for the bullet weight you are using.
Lucky 

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[Coffinmaker]

  Hi Guys 

PLUS ONE for Lucky R.K.

Loading for Black Powder regardless of bullet weight is dead simple.  Don't have to measure anything.  Just pore powder in till you get a little compression and go. 

Same same is true if yer contemplating running APP.  Just fill to the bullet base and go.  Thinking not required.

[Crow Choker]

I am thinking of getting the Big Lube Snakebite Greasewagon 158 grain mold for .38 Special. Mostly I would want to use it for black powder loads in .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases but if I did want to use it for smokeless loads what data would I use? Could I just use the same data the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has for any other 158 grain projectile?

For smokeless loadings of the 158 Snakebite that's what I consult is the Lyman manual. I do use softer lead for the black powder loadings and a bit harder for smokeless, although I do use a Lyman mold for most of my 38/357 loadings, a 156 grain Gas Check. Check out Mike Beliveau's sites on Facebook (Duelists Den) and on YouTube (duelist1954). He gives alot of info on his blackpowder/smokeless) loadings. Since I don't try to be a modern day Elmer Keith how much powder I can load into a brass case or attempt to make any of my handguns into a handheld howitzer, the Lyman manuals will do you right.

Coffinmaker and Lucky RK are right about loading black powder just near to the top to get good compression. I still weigh out that amount to get grains. Used my powder mease set at the needed grains for volume in early days of loading cases with black, but anymore use Lee's plastic dipper set. Works veddy well!

 I don't know if true of not, but there was a story floating around in cyber-space about a guy who read/heard that when loading ammo for some handgun he had that all you needed to do was fill up the case to within 1/8" or so from the top of the case and it would be the perfect loading. Only trouble was he used smokeless powder of some sort. Blew his handgun to pieces, alot of shrapnel in his arm/hand/face. He survived, hopefully a little smarter.

[KWK]

I am thinking of getting the Big Lube Snakebite Greasewagon 158 grain mold for .38 Special. Mostly I would want to use it for black powder loads in .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases...

That should work well. If you want fewer cavities, Accurate's 36-155C ought to do as well with BP. I think this is the late John Kort's design. The COL won't be the same as with the Snakebite.

... but if I did want to use it for smokeless loads what data would I use? Could I just use the same data the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has for any other 158 grain projectile?

Lyman has loads for 155, 158, and 160 gn bullets. They aren't all the same, so you'll need to do some interpolating. The chronograph is your friend here.

[Cheyenne Logan]

Is somebody making the Big Lube molds now?  Looking for a 45 mold myself

[Crow Choker]

Is somebody making the Big Lube molds now?  Looking for a 45 mold myself

Wondering myself?

[Galloway]

Me three!

[Crow Choker]

Big Lube website still up, alot of the revolver molds out of stock as are some of the rifle ones, at least it shows so. 38 Snakebite still shows in stock, 44 Mav Dutchman and PS 45 250 grain out of stock, at least show so. Check it out. Tried to see if anyone else is selling Big Lube Molds, no dice. Dick is still active on his Facebook page.

[Cheyenne Logan]

Last time I heard from him, he said he was out of business, but may have a 45 mold laying around, he'd check and get back to me, never heard anything further, so guess he didn't.

[Mako]

Lonesome Pigeon,
Read on, there is some good news for you and others.

Unfortunately it appears Dick has closed his Big Lube Mold business. That is a loss for all of us, I appreciate Mr. Rhody's contributions to the sport (and contributing to my success keeping guns running during matches) and wish him the best.

For those of us needing a Big Groove BP style .38 mold, Tom (of Accurate Molds) will hopefully soon have a fair analog of the Big Groove mold we are familiar with in his catalog.  I am currently waiting for him to send the link allowing me to approve his mold design.  He has reviewed the drawing I sent him and said he liked the design. 

After I receive the mold and successfully cast with it I'll post the catalog number here and on a few other sites with BP cowboy shooters. I'm also going to ask if he will identify it as designed for Black Powder (and perhaps noting it has a generous grease groove for BP lube) as he has a few other designs in his catalog. 

For the larger calibers the Deep Big Groove style can't be reproduced exactly with the Accurate Mold cavity design requirements for the bullet molds Dick was selling, but it does work in .38 caliber with the Accurate Mold cavity because the original design only ever had a 0.03 per side groove depth.  That is the maximum depth Tom will cut. 

After Mark (Springfield Slim) quit selling BP lubed bullets I had an old fellow I was introduced to casting .38 Grease Wagons and .44 Mav Dutchman bullets for me, but when I stopped by last August to see him I was surprised when his his daughter answered the door.  She told me he had passed away earlier in the Summer.  After offering my regrets and sympathy I offered to buy his molds and what she told me almost made me cry.  She sold all of his casting and loading equipment (including supplies) for $200!!!!!!  If only I had known, I had told him if he ever wanted to sell any of his BP bullet molds that I would buy them but I guess he never told his daughter.  He was a character and fun to talk with, I miss him.

This is a a photo of an actual Snake Bite Grease Wagon bullet and the model of the design I submitted to Accurate Molds for comparison.  The weight and shape of the new bullet will be the same as the original.  The original bullet actually weighs 160gr with 20:1 ratio Lead/Tin alloy or Wheel Weights (they basically weigh the same) and 4-5 grains more with pure lead.

~Mako

[Professor Marvel]

Good Lord Mako! You have returned!

Thanks for the info on the molds, it sounds like Accurate Molds isgoing to be the ticket.

I had delusions of cutting my own cherries & etc, but my experiments have had a less than harmonious outcome.

I HAVE been able to successfully enlarge an existing old lee mold from ~ .45 to .510 using a bench mill, rotary table, and a variety
Of oddly sized burrs, some of which I reshaped on my lathe, then had to sharpen by hand withh a file.
Whilst it was a successful one-shot, if I need any oddball molds I will definitely be checking with Tom.

By the stars, Mako, You have been missed!

I am looking forward to more of your detailed technical missives….

Yhs
Prof Marvel

[Mako]

Professor,
What bullets were you interested in?  As I wrote, the .38 and even .32 bullets can be made with the deep Lube Groove using what Accurate Molds will cut because they have relatively shallow groove depths.  The rub is what happens with .38 WCF (.40 cal) and up. The grooves for those were 0.05" deep on the molds Dick was selling.  We "can't get there from here" with the limitations of what Tom will cut.

The limiting parameters are:

• The Nose must be flat   
• The Nose must have a diameter of at least Ø.180   
• The Groove depth cannot be deeper than 0.03" per side
• The Side Walls of the grove cannot less than 35° to the normal (perpendicular to the axis) , It can greater than 35° as is the case with the crimp groove back side

I tried to talk him into a deeper groove for a Mav Dutchman analog, but so far, no luck.  I'm going to keep working on him.  I think he can do it with the wider groove, I believe he just has that depth (0.03") as his default because most all grooves are much narrower.  He is worried about tool clearance and his cutting tool geometry.

Marc (Mav) gave us the original Mav Dutchman design so I know the exact the dimensions and geometry for that bullet.  Below is a model of it along with the alternative I came up using Tom's requirements.  Note the side walls are also much steeper on the Mav Dutchman (Tom's 35° may truly be a hard limit, but I would accept that with a deeper groove). I may post the models over on the Darksider's Den and solicit input as to interest.  Tom already has a couple of potential .44 BP bullet substitutes in his catalog, So I don't know if it is worth another design unless he will deepen the groove for me.

Note the Lube volume of the original Mav Dutchman is 0.1141cm³, but the alternative is 0.075cm³.  So, 34% more with the Mav., but the actual lube bearing surface is 12% longer (which is a "win") on the alternative.  I don't know if you have ever recovered the Mav Dutchman or PRS .45 after firing, but based on the bullets I have retrieved, I believe they still have 25% to 35% of the lube still deep in the groove.

~Mako

[Navy Six]

WOW Mako. Number one thanks for the response but you made me blink when I saw your name again. I frequently refer back to your material posted several years back and hope you continue.

[Crow Choker]

Yes indeed!!! Welcome back Mako, have missed your posts, information, knowledge, etc. I had to take a look at the date of your post to see if I was on an archive thread. I've regretted not buying a 45 caliber PRS big lube mold ever since Dick shut down, hopefully now I can acquire. You've been missed my friend. Crow Choker

[Coffinmaker]

   AH HA !!! 

I New It!!  It's MAKO's fault.  And thank goodness!!  Some Lustrum ago, I was fraught with frustration with "Blind and Deaf" spotters at CAS matches.  Seems they could neither "hear" nor "see" .36 BALL hitting a steel plate at 7 yards.  And I was shooting .36s.  Then I discovered the EPP UG - 36.  I was able to convince Springfield Slim to cast them for me so I paid for the mould by buying the first several thousand he cast.  Properly cast, the EPP UG - 36 is just hard enough to give a .38ish KLANG and to be seen actually hitting the target.  Marvelous little bullet.

And we have MAKO, in conjunction With Dirty Dic Dastardly to thank for it.  It is in fact MAKO's FAULT - Thank You Sir!!  Burma Shave

[Mako]

Coffin Maker,
I can't take credit for the .36 EPP-UG.  I did send him (Dick) drawings, but he finished it up. 

However I will take credit for the 38-135C mold, that is a full 130-135gr.  I think Dick's .36 EPP-UG probably weighs 95grains?

How heavy is it?

Oh, and there is an analog to that mold on Accurate Molds if someone need to order one now.

Did I see where you scooped up some of Mark's unlubed bullets recently?

~Mako

[Coffinmaker]

  Hey Hey MAKO 

That little gem weighs in around 90 +/- Gr as Mark cast 'em.  Absolutely SNAZZY little bullet for the the .36.  And as a fun little project, I also loaded 'em in 38-55!!
Zipped out there like a laser.  Fun Fun Fun you betcha.

The little buggers give a righteous KLANG on steel and leave a nice lead "splash" mark for the Blind and Deaf!!  Simply Marvelous.

[Mako]

Hey Hey MAKO 

That little gem weighs in around 90 +/- Gr as Mark cast 'em.  Absolutely SNAZZY little bullet for the the .36.  And as a fun little project, I also loaded 'em in 38-55!!
Zipped out there like a laser.  Fun Fun Fun you betcha.

The little buggers give a righteous KLANG on steel and leave a nice lead "splash" mark for the Blind and Deaf!!  Simply Marvelous.

Your Kung Fu is stonger master, I bow to the man who would put a 90 grain lead bullet on top of a .38-55 shell. I shudder to think of the grains of powder under it. 

Just for giggles, How much did you put in?

Did you live after firing it?

~Mako