Modify Win 1897 shotgun or not?

[McCrower]

I am new to CAS and my club is just starting up with this great activity. I am preparing myself and have just ordered a used Win mod 1897 shotgun from the USA. I am going to use it for cas, not for hunting or as a wallhanger. The barrel length is 30". So my questions are:
- Should I cut down the barrel when I get it? to 20"?
- Should I be concerned about the finish? "Reblue" it?

McCrower
Norway

Image not my gun, just an illustration 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Some will say that once you own it, do what you want. They will suggest that it will be easier to maneuver around the props if it is shorter. I myself have one cut to 22" and fitted with a "thinwall" choke. It had a Weaver Dial-a-duck choke when I got it and there was no value in it.

My personal experience is that shorter is not necessarily better. My personal best matches were accomplished with a full choke 30" barrel.

 Cutting the barrel will;
-  make it much less useful for other shooting games or hunting
-  cut it's resale value to non-CAS customers, and useless to collectors (If any exist?)
-  make knock-down targets harder to tip with wide patterns

This is an old debate and I am notorious for opposing the use of the hacksaw. It is somewhat a matter of opinion, but TRY IT AS IT IS FOR AWHILE BEFORE YOU CHOP.

[McCrower]

Thanks for the reply.

Does everyone else agree with not cutting the barrel?

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[Blair]

I will second that and for the reasons suggested!
My best,
 Blair

[Pettifogger]

Depends on how competitive you want to be.  No top shooter uses a thirty inch barrel.  Twenty inches has become almost a standard length for a CAS competition grade 97 shotgun.  Sure there are people that shoot long barrels.  Some even shoot thirty inch Model 73 rifles. The shorter barrels are popular with top level shooters for a reason.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I hate to see an old gun cut up.  If you want to win a bunch of CAS matches, bobbing the barrel is probably going to help with that goal.  If you only want to have fun and are timed with an hour glass like I am, then leave it long for duck or pheasant season, with the proper dowel for a plug.

[hp246]

There were millions of these made.  Unless you have a rarity, they have little collector value.  When you remove 10 inches of barrel, you essentially have a cylinder bore gun.  I've never seen anyone have a problem knocking down CAS knockdowns with a cylinder bore gun.  If they were, it was because they missed the knockdown, not because of the lack of choke.  If it is a big thing for you, then have a set of screw in chokes installed.  Don't be afraid to cut the barrel.

[McCrower]

There were millions of these made.  Unless you have a rarity, they have little collector value.  When you remove 10 inches of barrel, you essentially have a cylinder bore gun.  I've never seen anyone have a problem knocking down CAS knockdowns with a cylinder bore gun.  If they were, it was because they missed the knockdown, not because of the lack of choke.  If it is a big thing for you, then have a set of screw in chokes installed.  Don't be afraid to cut the barrel.

And 20" is the way to go? No point in 22" or around there?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Can't you find one already bobbed? It would likkely be cheaper if bought from a club member, ask around.

Then you could have this one for Pheasants and such.

[Blair]

Something that should/could be taken into consideration is how many of the original long barrels variation of the '97 will survive the CAS?WAS competitition cut downs?
It is of my opinion, and suggestion, that if you have a long barreled '97, keep it as original as you can. Replace the barrel with one that has already been cut. I believe the long barreled guns will always have a higher resale value over those that have been "hacked off".
Just a thought on my part, However, the gun belongs to you, do with it as you wish.
My best,
 Blair

[Gabriel Law]

I would not cut it.  I own an original with a bobbed barrel (20"), and though it works fine, I would like to find an uncut barrel for it too.  My '87 Winchester has a 32" bbl and it handles just fine.

[hp246]

I certainly can understand the traditional thoughts about these fine old firearms.  But if you are going to use it for CA, you are probably going to make other alterations, such as the forcing cone, front bead, action, magazine, etc.  All of these will take away from the originality. I look at these in the same light as a S & W Model 10.  Million were produced.  Not particularly valuable as they sit, but with a bit of work can be turned a fine competition gun (thousands of model 10 were converted into PPC guns).

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

hp246; Why would you have to do any of that stuff? My old 1908 mod 97 works as slick as anyone could expect. The 1953 issue is tighter, much tighter, but is still fast,  and deadly.

[hp246]

hp246; Why would you have to do any of that stuff? My old 1908 mod 97 works as slick as anyone could expect. The 1953 issue is tighter, much tighter, but is still fast,  and deadly.

Sir Charles, if works that slick at its age, I believe you are very lucky.  Most of these guns have had the heck shot out of them.  Like an old .45 hardball gun, all that recoil takes something out of them.  A good gunsmith however can work miracles.  Many shooters like a larger bead, as it is a bit easier to pick up .  Having the forcing cone re-worked helps a bit with recoil and allows for more consistent extraction.  If there is a chance you are going to shoot Wild Bunch, makes sense to have the alteration done to the magazine to allow for the extra round.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Yes, thankfully it is not too worn.

I don't see the bead, just the top of the muzzle and always hold on a spot one third up from the bottom of the target. This works if one holds the stock-weld very tightly.

It has never refused to eject, and recoil is easy to manage.

I can load the mag right up with AA hulls cut to 2 3/8" and roll crimped.

[hp246]

Sir, you asked why.  There is more than one way to skin a cat.  To each his own.

[Gabriel Law]

I have an original '97 that has seen a tremendous amount of use.  There is virtually no factory blue left on the shotgun.  It has been 'bobbed' to 20" and a new bead installed.  I had a great 'smith re-cut the chamber to 2 3/4" with a long forcing cone.  He tightened the gun too.  This shotgun performs flawlessly.  It has almost zero collector's value, but is priceless to me.

So to answer this thread's question:  if you intent to invest x amount in this gun, and flip it later for profit, leave it in your safe.  If you are going to enjoy it for what it is, do what is necessary to fulfill that wish, and do not look back.

[hp246]

Well said Gabriel Law.

[Coffinmaker]

I just had to drop in and say hi!!  HI!!!!
I'm one of those who never met a barrel too short.  My '97s are all cut to 18 1/4 inches, had choke tubes installed, big 'ol thick recoil pad added, cracked stocks fixed and they perform wondrously for CAS

I respect the "don't cut em" folks.  There are traditionalists in every endeavor.  But lets be honest, in it's production run, there were over a million and a half '97s manufactured.  Half of those are still in the back corner of someones closet waiting to be discovered.  A few thousand have gotten into CAS.  There is NO collector value.  Nobody collects them (that I know of) and the only reason they price out around $375 to $475 (some more) is because of CAS.  When I started, a pristine primo '97 went for 75 to 100 bucks, tops.  SO:  Don't let traditionalism or collectability be your prime consideration.  Let your use drive your decision.  If you want a fast handling had hitting CAS gun, cut it down and install choke tubes.  While it's apart, have the chamber re-cut for modern 2 3/4 munitions and the forcing cone lengthened.  Re-cutting the chamber to modern 2 3/4 will reduce excess chamber pressure as will extending and easing the forcing cone.
Baseline??  Your gun.

Coffinmaker

[Steel Striker]

Ditto what HP246 said.  I bought mine from Wild West Alaska store via Gun Broker auction, 'bout 6 months ago.  After asking around re: desired CAS lengths & collector value, it was an easy choice to shorten it 10". 

My best piece of advice was to first obtain the non-standard 4-48 tap for the new bead sight.  I then used the existing bead to mark a line representing the TOP of the bbl, BEFORE cutting with my angle grinder cutoff blade.  The entire process took 1/2 hr of putz'g around.  Fun & no glitches.

I used to care about hanging pictures 'cause that would cause a hole in the wall!!  Sounds silly now, but that's how limiting an anal personality can be, eh.   Cut it, shoot it & enjoy having done it yourself.