Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Leather Shop => Topic started by: Capt Quirk on May 01, 2020, 03:27:03 PM
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I have only done a few droploop/buscadaro belts, with varying results. My first one was cut straight. It kept falling around my knees. It was also made from belly leather, and unlined.
My second one was slightly curved, like one of the cheap DeSantes online. It was lined with glazed pigskin. After a few tries, I finally got it to fit the customer...
Got a new customer that wants a droploop for a .44 SBH, 8" bbl, and a .44 SBH with a 10"bbl crossdraw.
This guy is going to be a pita if it is at all wrong, so I want to be doubly sure it fits his short and round body.
I have read arguments for curved, as it fits better, less likely to fall. Others say straight, it is easiest to cut, and should naturally curve fit over time.
Thoughts?
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That would depend on the person's physique. No buscadero belts work for me because I have narrow hips and no butt to speak of. With one cinched tight, I take a deep breath and the belt is down around my ankles faster than a cat on a gopher. Tapered belts work good for women or men who have a normal body shape where the waist is narrower than the hips. For women with a nice hourglass figure, it helps to accent the taper even more. For people with a barrel body, you need to design it so they can tighten it around their waist to stay in place. Some might need a shoulder strap.
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And here is another thought-out if I go with a curved belt, I have found two options. First cut the belt on a curve, which is a pain. Or, second, cut it straight, and wet shape it as a curve, which sounds easier. I have not tried that.
With the second method, do I case the leather, shape, then recase for tooling?
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I've reshaped belts after they're made and they do fine. Starting from scratch with simple border work, I'd stamp it first then put the curve in it before applying any finish. If I was going to do a full decorative belt, I'd put the curve in it prior to doing the tooling.
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Thanks Will, that helps a lot!
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All of my straight belts gradually reshape themselves to curved anyway, it seems.
RCJ
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Hi, how do you measure curved on purpose? Is there a tutorial somewhere?
Later
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I don't know of any tutorials on how to measure the amount of curve. No two people are the same shape. I just give the belt a bit of curve then wrap it around to see how it is. You can add more curve or take some out if needed. If you're making it for someone who isn't available to do that, close is what you will be looking for. Like John says, the belt will gradually reshape anyway.
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Just my opinion, but I think you're going to have a major problem cutting this belt on a curve, especially with two holsters. To compound the problem, one holster is a cross draw. You can't cut the belt straight, wet it and bend a curve into it. Sounds good and looks good on paper, but the leather will never hold it's curve. It must be cut in a curve. The early Buscadaro rigs had straight belts and very little drop to the loop the holster hung from. And River City is right about the straight belt forming a slight curve on it's own. I've been a holster maker for 42 years and every time I have to make one of these rigs, I cringe. I don't get many requests for them, but I will make one as a special order, non-returnable. The only exception is when a customer can actually be here in the shop, so I can take the proper measurements.
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Ok Buck, you seem to be the one to ask. Trying to cut it curved, was really giving me headaches. I was hoping to cut it straight, form it, lay it out on the liner, glue it, trim it, and Bob's your Uncle...
Do you have a simple way to do it curved?
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Ok Buck, you seem to be the one to ask. Trying to cut it curved, was really giving me headaches. I was hoping to cut it straight, form it, lay it out on the liner, glue it, trim it, and Bob's your Uncle...
Do you have a simple way to do it curved?
Boy, I'm glad its not just me. I don't do this for a living, but I'm a bit of a techie so I do measure things. My old gunsmith was appalled that I took a tuned magazine for a 1911, measured the lips and "tuned" another couple to fit that gun. It did work though.
Later ;D
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All of my straight belts gradually reshape themselves to curved anyway, it seems.
RCJ
Same here. Maybe ask the client for an old belt of his that is curved from wear, then use that belt as a template? When I was in the SCA, that is how I made my belts.
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Having the customer send an old belt might work. Problem is that if it is a pants belt, it may or may not give you the correct amount of curvature. Also, with the crossdraw holster, a curved belt might not work well. Here's a thought...have the customer get some paper grocery bags and make himself a paper belt the way he thinks he would like it, and send it to you. Tell him to be sure to mark the position of the holsters and the ends of the belts. I would agree with the no return policy on something like this. The other thing I always do is have the customer measure around where he/she will wear the belt, using a dressmakers tape or at least a piece of string.
(In 45 years of professional leather-making (not counting the first one I made for my late section OIC's Buntline special in 1968), I think I've had one request for a curved buscadero rig, and I had the customer available to fit him. Definitely a PITA, and I'm not talking about those animal rights nuts!
Stay well, Pard
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We measured him out at 46", center to center. I learned the hard way not to trust their pant size. From center to 3:00 is 13", where the drop loop will be. Only an inch, so that there is enough meat to hold strong. The cross draw will be likely 11:00 or so. I plant to line the belt with about 5-6oz vegtan.
My main goal here, is for it to stay on him long enough for it to form to him. It won't do to have it drop around his knees before he finishes paying.
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;) I'm not a leather crafter :) Didn't stay in a Holliday Inn that I admit to. I have, however had lots and lots of Gun Belts. First a CAVEAT: My Sweetheart has been known to say I have a "Girlie Butt." I have never cared for a Straight cut Gun Belt since I tried my first "contour" cut belt. Fits more comfortably over my hips and stops at my butt. A straight cut "cuts" when drawn up tight. I personally have never had a Gun Belt Grow a "curve" over time. Always stayed straight. I have notice some Gun Belts will shrink over the winter. Strange .... that.
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Careful there CM, a casual comment like that, and you could go to your grave being known as "Girlie Butt". Just ask my son, Squirrelboy Dumass ;)
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The best way I've found to cut it on a curve is by drawing it out. When I get my leather shipments from Hermann Oak, they always roll it up in light weight paste board sheets and heavy paper. I save this material for my patterns. I first work up the pattern with the paper and make sure everything is exactly the size and shape I need and then cut a permanent pattern from the paste board sheets. It may take a while, but you can work up your curved belt pattern by either tracing the outline of an existing Buscadaro or drop loop rig or cutting a curve and holding it around your own waist until you get it where you want it. From that point, adding or subtracting to an individual waist size is easy. When you do add or subtract the waist size, make sure to keep in mind that any change in size will also change the position where the holsters hang. Drop loop will have to be moved to match waist size.
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So, Buck... Give me a f'rinstance. If'n the belt is 3" wide, and 46" long (not even adding on for the extra under the tongue), how much upcurve on the ends? 1" above sea level? 4" above sea level?
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And just because I like to share, this is the general direction I'm going with the holsters. This is the long one-
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Hi
I found this by accident:
https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/95009-cross-draw-western-rig-with-progress-pics/ (https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/95009-cross-draw-western-rig-with-progress-pics/)
This guy just cases the leather cartridge belt and puts a slight bend in it. :)
It ain't exact, but it IS a decent bend.
Later
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That's a good article.
When I need a curved belt I like to put the curve in afterwards, too. It's a lot easier and you can easily adjust the curve to just the right amount.
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If you want a belt with a even curve the whole length you can bow an aluminum straight edge laying on it's side and have someone trace it. For large patterns I do as Buck and use the heavy brown paper sides of leather come rolled in.
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If you can find a copy, John Bianci (sp) did a pretty good 3 part video about how to make a buscadero belt and holster.
Actually a pretty informative video set.
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Thank you all for your thoughts. I've been working out a curved pattern, and I think it will work. The belt I made was for a larger guy, so it won't fit me, and he fell off the map. So, I can't judge the fit.
To be honest, the bigger struggle is, fitting the holster through the slot. I need to make the slot bigger, and the holster narrower.
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Thank you all for your thoughts. I've been working out a curved pattern, and I think it will work. The belt I made was for a larger guy, so it won't fit me, and he fell off the map. So, I can't judge the fit.
To be honest, the bigger struggle is, fitting the holster through the slot. I need to make the slot bigger, and the holster narrower.
Unless its a common size and style belt I never cut a belt without a 50% down payment. If they back out at least you got paid for your materials since you wind up with something that you cant use and it will be doomsday before you find another person wanting the exact size, color, style, bullet loops, etc. There are just too many variables on a cartridge belt. And if they want name or initials its 100% up front.
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Not to disparage all of the beautiful leatherwork done by the members of cascity but after I discovered how much more comfortable cotton web belts are I’ve never put on another leather gunbelt. [Except as a Sam Brown rig.]
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:) Biltmore Edderd ;)
You have really piqued my curious. I have only given passing glance to Cotton Webb Gun Belts inna past. Seemed they were more of a GAF/Wild Bunch/Military sort of thing. HOWEVER:
Yours has caused me to re-think (Oh the PAIN). Where or from Whom did you get yours?? Canvas belt with integrated 12Ga loops could be pretty fun, maybe.
Stay Safe Out There
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My first and favorite is an old unknown maker foragers belt with fifteen 12 gauge loops across the back with ten .45 cal rifle loops on both sides of the buckle. I built a crude piece of belt with eight 12 ga loops and three 45 loops that hooks into the .45 loops on both sides to straddle the buckle. That way I don’t need a second sg belt. I eventually had it rebuilt nicer by a real leather crafter. Gives me 23 rds of sg and a few spare .45s in case of a bonus or jack out. I also use Span Am Mills belts with 12 ga slides often. The only leather belt that I use is when I’m doing British or RNWMP as I need a Sam Brown rig.
I think my 8 rd sg-3 rd .45 rig was rebuilt for me by Stan Dolega @Wolf’s Ears. He’s also done 4 of my holsters. Love his half flaps. Check him out.
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The guy put down 50%, and then I had some issues, delays, and then the covid thing. Who knows what happened to him.
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:) Well ;)
It just doesn't seem to matter. At All. Second Match of the season yesterday. And it happened AGAIN. Over the winter, My second favorite gun belt SHRANK!! Safely stored in a nice warm-n-dry gun room for the winter. Not exposed to UV, Not exposed to water. Not exposed to excessive Cold nor Heat. WHY??
Any you guys or gals have an Opine as to what has caused this to happen ?? I doesn't seem to matter if Older Straight belt, or more recent Contour belt ???
Stay Safe Out There
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Pandemic chronic waist syndrome. It’s rampant in 2020 and 2021 America. It attacks gun belts and pants belts with equal ferocity. Suspenders are usually immune for some reason. The only cure is to operate and dare say....punch another hole. It’s sad but necessary. As R. Heinlein once said, ‘there comes a time in every man’s life that he has to shoot his own dog [or punch a new hole], don’t farm it out, only makes it worse.’ Be strong CM.
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Not wanting to stray too far off the topic but does everyone see the same sakumom add that I’m seeing of the gals nice butt in a bathing suit and if so what does that have to do with a bunch of old phart cowboys? You know bathing suits can catch the syndrome too. Now she’s gone. Next time I’ll screen shot her.
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@ Baltimore Ed, you must be getting the premium ads, I only see the Dillon reloading ad. Wanna trade?