Stepping back in time....... .22 LR Black Powder

[w44wcf]

Howdy Pards,

I've always wanted to test some original .22LR black powder cartridges to see how they performed back in the day.
Not too long ago I came across an old 2 piece box of early .22 LR cartridges. Most all the writing on the box was gone, but I could barely make out "UMC" on the bottom edge. I pulled one of the bullets and they are b.p. cartridges.  

As the pic shows, the lube was dried out and there is some tarnishing of the copper case. Thankfully, they cleaned up ok. I used a toothbrush to clean off the dry lube and a bore brush to clean off the cartridge case. I then relubed with SPG.



Well.......tried to fire a couple of the original UMC .22 b.p. cartridges, but click, click....priming compound is "deader than a doornail". I wasn't totally surprised, just a bit disappointed.

So......I spent a couple of hours cleaning and pulling bullets and powder from the UMC cartridges. Thankfully the case was not crimped into the bullet heel so the heel was not distorted in the process.



Bullet diameter .225"
factory powder compression: .035"



After loading the 4.5 grs. of the original powder into Armscor cases, I seated the U.M.C. bullets with a Lyman H&I .225 die.

10 loaded and ready to go


I shot 10 of the assembled b.p. cartridges  at my clubs 50 ft. indoor range since the weather wasn't too good outdoors and I was anxious to test them.

They worked great  .....just loaded 10 in the tube of my Marlin 39A (1948) and fired 2 groups of 5.



With the earlier success at 50 feet, I next wanted to try them at 50 yards which I did yesterday. I'll post those results soon.....

w44wcf
 

[Mako]

Great report!

Do you have an estimate of the grain size?  I can't remember if you have meshes or not.

Groups look good too, which isn't surprising at all.

Maybe I missed it, but what is the bullet weight?  37-38 grains or heavier?

~Mako

[Paladin UK]

WOW!!

What an inneresin report!

Now Iffn I load me 25 of these critters, `n iffn I cram em inta a BC 25 rd mag, stuff said mag inta my 10-22 `n `Let `em Rip`

Do ya`ll reckon I`d have a harmonious outcome or shall  I `Pass,`  `n jest imagine... 
 What iffn..................

Paladin (What`s takin his meds now  ) UK

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[Cookie]

Great report. Love reading interesting tidbits like this.

How did you remove the old priming compound, and how did you then re-prime them?

Also, you said the cases were copper, which I understand was the norm on old cases. But, those assembled loads look more like brass. Is that just because of their age?

Finally, your range lets you shoot BP indoors? Or did they just not notice with those little .22's?

[Bishop Creek]

I think he loaded the original black powder and bullets into new Armscor cases.

[w44wcf]

Pards, thank you for the kind words.

Mako,
Oops.... I forgot to mention the bullet weight. Thank you for reminding me.  It is 40 grs.  

The smallest screen I have is 40 mesh.  I had dumped one of the 4.5 gr. powder charges on the screen and 4.0 grs passed through and .5 grs was retained.  The .5 grs would be 3F size. The balance or a portion of the balance of the 4.0 grs could be 4F or a combination of 3F & 4F.  

Since the powder is 100+ years old, it could be as "Dutch Bill" has described as a combination of 2 different granulations which was commonly done back then in "Sporting" and "Rifle" type black powders.  

"John Boy" has some finer screens and I have saved some of the powder for further analysis and I will report back after I see him the end of May.

In the following post, the average velocity of the powder from the UMC 4.5 charges is indicated along with the average velocity of 4.5 grs. of SWISS 4F.

PALADIN UK,
In previous testing using Remington cases that I pulled the bullets from, I shot 30 rounds in a row (most loaded at one time) using SWISS 4F and SPG lube and good accuracy was maintained throughout. It may not be with another type of b.p.


Cookie,
As Bishop Creek indicated, the cases I used were made by Armscor. The Hunting Shack was carrying primed .22LR cases made by them. THey are currently out of stock so I don't know when or if they will be getting any more. It sure does save  the trouble of pulling bullets to get cases.

Thankfully, I have a key to the indoor range / clubhouse since I am one of the directors.  So.....I tested when no one else was there.....

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

I had a chance to shoot the UMC .22 LR Black Powder cartridges at 50 yards a couple of days ago.
The Temp was 50F and it was a bit breezy (10-20 mph winds).
Being a bit anxious, I decided to venture forth and shoot each shot when there was a lull in the wind.

The rifle was my 39A made in 1948 with a circa 1960's Weaver 8X scope on board.
With good .22 smokeless ammunition the rifle will shoot < 1" groups @ 50 yards... if I do my part.

Here are the two targets made with the 100+ year old component(s) that were loaded into Armscor primed cases since the priming in the original UMC cases was dead. I also tried 4.5 grs SWISS 4F with the UMC bullets which produced the group on the right.

I loaded 10 rounds into the repeating rifle and fired the two five shot groups below with no cleaning nor blow tubing.
The 100+ year old powder and bullets lubed with SPG performed very well.



I have a mold on order from David Mos that will produce a bullet that will replicate the 40 gr. UMC  so once it arrives, I will be shooting a bunch more b.p. 22LR this season in NRA Cowboy Silhouette matches.

What fun it will be!

w44wcf

[Blackpowder Burn]

Now this is truly fascinating!  I didn't realize empty 22LR cases were available, nor the molds to produce the bullets.  You've just put another "sometime" project onto my plate.  As if I needed any more!

[john boy]

Auggie, unless another source is identified - there is no vendor selling empty primed cases because what was on the website were bought out.  Can always pull heads on cheap on the market rounds though.

[Mako]

W44cf,

Excellent results!  Once again I am not surprised.  BP can be and obviously is very accurate.  I'd like to see someone try and do that with half century old nitro powder.

I'm also not surprised at the bullet weight, I figured it would have the "standard" 40gr bullet from the .22 Extra Long, but the ogive appeared rounder than a lot of the modern 22LR bullets (less of a ellipse) and I was wondering if it was even a couple of grains heavier than 40 grains.

I know that the .22LR is 19th century, but I didn't know if and when there was a standardization of the bullet weight even though it was originally a .22 Long case paired with a .22 Extra Long bullet.

Do you have an estimate on the age of the ammunition?   And I am assuming since you used 4F that is your best estimate on the powder grain size, am I correct in my assumption?

Thanks again, this is interesting stuff.

Regards,
Mako

[w44wcf]

Mako,
UMC (Union Metallic Cartridnge) purchased Remington in 1911 and shortly thereafter, ammunition boxes and headstamps on centerfire cartridges had the REM-UMC designation.  The old box I found had just the UMC designation so it would date pre 1911.

In doing an internet search for what the top of the box looked like I found the top left box which matches the colors on the box I found.



I think I will post the box pic on the IAA website to see if anyone would have a closer idea of the time frame. One thing for sure though. It would date sometime between 1887 and 1911.

Interestingly, early references to the powder charge used indicated 5 grs. A 1905 UMC catalog also indicates 5 grs.  Of course what is written and what is actually used can be two different things.  Perhaps they decided to go with a b.p. with a higher ballistic strength and thus were able to use the lesser charge of 4.5 grs to achieve the performance of the original 5 gr. charge (?).  Also, the 4.5 gr. charge would not completely fill the case (depending on powder density) to the top whereas  5.0 would making the volume loading of .22 b.p. ammunition a bit more difficult.

I went with 4F because most of the granulation appeared to be that.

w44wcf
  

[Jamie]

Absolutely fascinating.  This is the reason I come here to read and learn!  Keep this thread running.  I'm impressed by the group size, please let us know about fouling/cleaning issues - I assume that with a modern primer and using 4f powder, and again judging by the size of the groups, there must be minimal fouling issues.  Anyway thanks!  Also a word of warning which is probably unnecessary, but bullet pulling from rimfire cases can be a dangerous business. Obviously kinetic pullers are NOT a good idea, though they might work for awhile.  Eventually however there would almost certainly be a bang.  How are you pulling the bullets?  It may be there, but I missed it...  Thanks for the efforts, again, this is the good stuff.  Now I just have to figure out how to afford a new mini-Sharps...  I could set up in a barn near a grain bin and pretend that the rats, starlings, pigeons and crows are vast herds of buffalo... Sorry, I'm starting to drool out of the corner of my mouth with a stupid grin.
Jamie

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Great report on a VERY interesting subject!  Thanks for posting, 44WCF!

I too, am curious as to how you pulled the projectiles with no/little deformation.

As for priming 22RF cases, I have heard of a method used by Eskimos and a gun-store owner I once knew who reloaded 22RF during World War II because of the scarcity of powder and brass.  It involves somehow (carefully cut or broken, I suppose) using the tips of "strike anywhere" matches and a liquid, probably alcohol, and spinning the used 22 cases in a drill or perhaps by hand (?) and dropping the liquefied striker/priming compound into the case and letting centrifugal force spread the compound into the recesses of the rims.

That seems like a really time-consuming method, but he said that the Eskimos had been doing it for decades back then.  I'll bet few do it now.  But the process would work!  (He mentioned that since he and his family had shot at one or two targets - of the kind that has a plate that angles the spent projectiles down to the ground - in the same place for many years, so he/they simply dug up lead from the ground under their target stands and recast the used lead.)

I like your method better.
 

[w44wcf]

I pulled the bullets from the UMC cases usiing an inertia puller. Thankfully, they were not crimped so the heel was preserved. Only one or two light raps was all it took.

Several years ago when I was using the inertia puller to pull bullets from current .22 ammo with crimped in bullets, it took 4-6 hard raps to debullet. I didn't have any issues doing that....thankfully......but since the bullets could not be reused because of the "pulled" heel, I started removing the bullets with pliers. Just a twist to the right did the job......much faster and safer.   

w44wcf

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks for the explanation!  Some folks might shy away from using an inertia puller putting any driving force anywhere near the rim, but if they (projectiles) weren't crimped, there may not be much more "smack" on the rim than simply dropping the box of cartridges ... not recommended, but it doesn't usually hurt.