Author Topic: Black Powder in 1876 lever action  (Read 1033 times)

Offline KenH

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Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« on: December 20, 2020, 01:49:09 PM »
Hello ya'll.  A question on shooting Black Powder in these lever action rifles.  Does the side plates need to be removed very often after shooting black powder?  It seems like the black powder, even thought it's contained in the brass case would really dirty up the toggle links.

Thanks for any comments,
Ken H>

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 02:10:08 PM »
Ken I don't remove the side plates after every shooting with Bp. I turn the rifle upside down when cleaning with cold water and a small amount of Dawn . The Dawn is there for cleaning the left over lube and is not needed for the Bp. but does clean the greasy lube . In the upside down position  Most of the crud drains out of the barrel and not into the action  A lite wipe down of the inside of action lifter and bolt face . Then after  cleaning and oiling the bore I wipe down the inside with lite oil . Just a note , more than one 1876 I have opened for the first time in what looked to be many many years , the toggles and most of the inside of the action was coated with what looked like some kind of a grease and  or may have been an oil that turned to a grease like thickness with a Bp. mix on top of the grease  . After cleaning thoroughly the parts and frame showed No rust .  Personally I rub the internal parts with a lite grease  about once a yr. or so .But keep in mind some I only shoot a few times a yr .. ,,,DT

Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 07:27:27 PM »
When cleaning, leave a fired case in the chamber while doing the bore swabbing. When clean, remove case and oil the bore-chamber.
kw

Offline Abilene

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 07:34:48 PM »
KenH did not mention a caliber, and so I would like to piggyback on his question.  Does the bottleneck 45-75 brass have a thinner neck than the straight wall calibers, similar to the '73 dash-calibers being thinner than straight wall pistol brass, and therefore seal the chamber better?  Or do the straight wall (or taper) cartridges all seal fine because they are more powerful than pistol calibers?

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2020, 04:42:57 AM »
What I have seen is the increased chamber pressure is the biggest factor in sealing off in all four 1876 cartridges . Look at these 45-75 cases once fired with a stout charge of Bp.  Dirty on the inside but very clean on the outside .,,,DT

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:07:22 AM »

Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 06:42:14 AM »
In my 50-95 and 45-75 I load black powder that is compressed, with a card wad. A Stout load equals case seal, and hence less residue. Also anneal the brass as needed.
kw

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 01:22:43 PM »
KenH did not mention a caliber, and so I would like to piggyback on his question.  Does the bottleneck 45-75 brass have a thinner neck than the straight wall calibers, similar to the '73 dash-calibers being thinner than straight wall pistol brass, and therefore seal the chamber better?  Or do the straight wall (or taper) cartridges all seal fine because they are more powerful than pistol calibers?

Abilene my experience is the 45-75 shoots about as clean or maybe even cleaner than the WCF calibers of the 73 model. As you can see from Dusty's photo they come out very clean.

To answer the OP no you don't have to take it all apart, I just clean the bore with some windex or water and then follow up with Ballistol. Back when I was able to shoot a bunch I might take one apart after the end of the season just to clean it all up but it usually didn't need it.
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Offline KenH

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 04:19:48 PM »
Thanks for all the comments folks - My concern was BP residual or lube getting into the toggle area.  After thinking about it some, and looking at DT's clean brass, with stout loads the case seals sufficient there is very little if any blowback that can get into the toggle area.  I guess I was overthinking the issue.   I'm sure it will be a while before I get to do any shooting with my project rifle.  I'm working on toggle links now, and getting close to getting a good pair.  I'm learning bunches while machining out test links. 

The caliber is 40-60 caliber. 

I called Lisa at VTI this morning to check.  She says they got a batch of muzzle loader parts from Uberti last week, but no rifle parts.  Hopefully sometime in Jan?  She's got me down for a lever as backordered so I should get one from the next shipment they receive.

Rifle is getting closer.   Today I'm also working on the carrier block spring.  The Uberti spring doesn't fit (screw located wrong) and am having to tweak the notch a bit so the spring will drop into the catch to hold carrier block up while bolt is being closed.  Also had to tweak the carrier block lifter arm a bit so it would position the carrier block correctly.

Ken H>

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 05:15:06 PM »
40-60 WCF once fired in my 26 " 76 . 60 Gr. Compressed Bp. No Blow By , notice slight shoulder after once fired  .,,,DT

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2020, 03:40:12 AM »
KenH did not mention a caliber, and so I would like to piggyback on his question.  Does the bottleneck 45-75 brass have a thinner neck than the straight wall calibers, similar to the '73 dash-calibers being thinner than straight wall pistol brass, and therefore seal the chamber better?  Or do the straight wall (or taper) cartridges all seal fine because they are more powerful than pistol calibers?

I made my 45/75 brass from 348 winchester cases - the finished necks are quite thick (compared to 45/70 brass) and a neat fit to the chamber - also annealed - like DT I clean upside down (made a cradle for that) have not had the side plates off for ages - this (cleaning) is simpler than you imagine. 

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:07:22 AM »

Offline KenH

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2021, 10:19:45 AM »
OK folks, now I've shot some BP in the old rifle (1876 in 4060 caliber) I've used the Windex soaked "mop" pulled with string from muzzle end, then a Ballistol soaked mop pulled thru the bore.  Cleans up nicely and not near the mess as back when I was shooting muzzle loaders.

Just a question here, since the brass cartridge seals pretty good and the only BP residue is in the bore, would shooting a couple rounds of smokeless powder do much clean the BP residue from bore?  Of course nobody would do that, but in theory would that work?

Thanks again for all the help 'n guidance I've received from the folks on this forum.  I've sure learned a lot and had fun learning.

Ken H>

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Black Powder in 1876 lever action
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2021, 03:41:21 PM »
KenH did not mention a caliber, and so I would like to piggyback on his question.  Does the bottleneck 45-75 brass have a thinner neck than the straight wall calibers, similar to the '73 dash-calibers being thinner than straight wall pistol brass, and therefore seal the chamber better?  Or do the straight wall (or taper) cartridges all seal fine because they are more powerful than pistol calibers?

Abilene
my 45/75 brass made from 348 cases is thicker (+ 5 thou) in the neck than 45/70

Loaded 45/75 round measures .485 neck OD and is a NEAT fit in my Uberti chamber - to the extent I made an outside swage die and run all my loaded rounds through that to iron out any little crinkles so they chamber easily (little bulges from crimping etc)

My rifle shoots clean brass but there is no spare room at the front end of that chamber at all - the neck dimensions of the case chamber combo is as close to zero tolerance as you could get and still function

I clean much the same as Dusty - rifle upside down - I made a cradle for that and I use a flush bottle with a short length of plastic tube that goes in the chamber and pour water through the barrel first then one stroke with a brush or wet patch, another flush, another brush, etc, usually the third flush will run clean and the following patch will be clean - dry it with a few patches - I follow up with WD40   

 

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