56/56 Bullet Mold

[shilohdiver]

I have a friend who has a Spencer 56/56 and has had a custom bullet mold made and the accuracy is terrible.  I told him I would reach out to see if anyone has a 56/56 mold that actually worked well and is available to buy or have made.  I own a 56/50 Spencer and I have had great results with loading and accuracy but im aware there are a lot more options for the 56/50.  My friend also mentioned the 56/56 has a tapered barrel and was wondering how you slug the bullet or which end of the barrel would be where you would use the measurements of the slug for the mold.  Any help would be appreciated. 

[Arizona Trooper]

The barrel grooves are deeper at the breech by 0.003" to 0.005". You have to slug either by doing a chamber cast, or by starting the slug from the chamber, drive it an inch or so down the barrel and then tap it back out with a cleaning rod. Yes, it's a pain. Or, you can slug in the usual way and add 5 thousandths to your measurement. I have a 56-56 mold coming from Accurate Molds (54-310A). It SHOULD feed and shot OK, but that's what I thought about the last one. That one shot OK, but didn't feed worth a hoot, in 2 different 56-56 rifles.

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Arizona Trooper:

Was awaiting the number for your drawing.
Please let us know how it does.
Two are standing-by and will order if it feeds and shoots ok.
Big smiles and all the best.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[shilohdiver]

Thank you Arizona Trooper..I will relay this information to my friend..

[shilohdiver]

I relayed the information to my friend...He slugged the bore yesterday and got .535 running the slug through the entire barrel.  He is going to try your recommendation for slugging next.  Also he had a question on the bullet....He mentioned the bullet you recommended isn't a heeled bullet so. can I ask what cases you are using and if your loading that bullet as standard seated and crimped bullet?
thank you!!!

[Trailrider]

All of the .56-56 Spencer carbines I have measured have bores that taper from breech to muzzle, usually about .545 just ahead of the chamber to .535" at the muzzle. A Lyman 533476AX hollow base mould, cast using Lyman #2 alloy and sized .538" with 18.6 gr IMR4227 gave a MV = 929 ft/sec, @ 70deg F, at 6,000 MSL, giving 3-5/8 to 4-1/8" groups at 50 yds. Cases were Dixie Gun Works .50-70 brass shortened and annealed. OAL ctg length 1.475-1.480". Bullet weight = 411 gr.

I have more data, using some Rapine moulds and other combinations, using Pyrodex RS and others. Not sure where one would find such moulds.

With arthritis in my right shoulder, and in deferrence to the age of the original gun and this shooter, I have quit shooting. 

[shilohdiver]

Thank you Trailrider...Your expertise is much appreciated....I will forward the information

[Arizona Trooper]

54-310A is a heeled bullet. The heel is 0.525", and 0.542" ahead of the heel. I shot the old N-SSA Qwziak bullet for years, but it's a little too small for the second rifle, and Mike isn't making molds anymore. Too bad because that bullet shoots great. I'll post how the Accurate bullet does once the mold comes in.

[shilohdiver]

Thank you Arizona Trooper...

[shilohdiver]

Arizona Trooper.

would you be able to tell me the length of the heel on the 54-310A bullet?
the shape and weight look good!!

[shilohdiver]

I was able to review the bullet diagram and find out the heel information..thank you

[shilohdiver]

Update on Spencer 56/56
My friend ordered the 54-310a mold and had wonderful result...4 inch groups at 40 yards and hitting 6 and 10 inch steel plates at 50 yards offhand.  His only question was an unusual amount of fouling on the spent cartridges...I have not seen the fouled cartridges but just reporting his information.

[El Supremo]

Thanks for the good news, Shilohdiver:

Presumably, your friend is using cut-back cases, which can have the softer, annealed mouth area lessened.  This leaves a more brittle mouth which does not expand sufficiently on firing to gas seal fouling.  If he's getting residue more than half way down the case body or on the inside of the rim, the cases should be reannealed.  This helps.
There is a Thread here about annealing. 
Knarley Bob: 21MAR2023, Annealing the Brass?
Please let us know if annealing solves his blow-by problem. Thanks. Smiles.
El Supreno

[Arizona Trooper]

Funny this should pop up today, I was about to post an update on the quest for a 56-56 bullet that will both feed reliably and shoot well.

This latest effort was kicked off by a particular rifle that has a combination of a very tight chamber and large groove diameter bore.

I had been shooting the Owziak bullet (which the Buffalo Arms mold closely matches). In the old faithful rifle it feeds well and shoots well. However, the new rifle feeds well with it, but shoots awful. That mold is too small for the larger bore. Thus the quest to come up with a bullet that works in both rifles.

The first try was Accurate Molds 54-390A. That feeds reasonably well in Ol' Faithful, but not in the tight chamber rifle. Round 2 was 54-370A. When I sent that in to Accurate there was a mix up. I was initially informed that the 54-310 would be my second try, but that was done by someone else. The 54-370A is my drawing. That one is closer, but still not right. Varying case length between 1.06" and 1.1" hinted that there could be a sweet spot, but it wasn't what I was hoping for. The better it worked in one rifle, the worse it worked in the other.

At $100 and 6-8 weeks each, this was becoming a real investment. So, I decided to make Mold 3 myself. After 2 weekends in the shop, this one is getting close to working right. It actually feeds beautifully in both rifles, when the cartridge length is 1.7" OAL. But (BIG BUT) the length that feeds well causes the bullet shoulder to butt into the rifling just before the breech closes. This jams things up, with both rifles. Shortening the OAL allows the breech to close, but feeding quickly gets problematic.

Interestingly, each iteration of the design was becoming closer to the original shape, so I started measuring some originals. By shortening the case to 0.9" (the original length), the bullet shoulder could move back off the rifling and there would be space for 2 grease grooves (just like the originals). A 0.2" nose flat seems to have no affect on magazine function (but things get picky at 0.24") and the smaller size is tube magazine safe. I've been shooting a 0.2" nose flat in my 56-50 carbine for many decades with no problem, so that's what the new 56-56 mold will get.

Looks like I'm rediscovering what Crittenden & Tibbles and C.D. Leet got right 160+ years ago.

The new shape is sketched out. It will end up weighing about 425-450 grains. Unfortunately I won't get into the shop to make another mold until after the N-SSA National. If this works I'll send a sketch to Accurate Molds so it will be available.

[El Supremo]

Most helpful, Arizona Trooper:

.200" meplat feeds better with no safety issue.  Smiles.

Good luck at the Nationals.

El Supremo

[Allletters]

 let us know when you send it off, i'd like to pick one up. I am trying to gather the stuff to make my own 56-56, still haven't been able to shoot my rifle yet