Author Topic: Aircraft  (Read 770469 times)

Offline Arcey

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2540 on: January 05, 2015, 06:25:50 AM »
Image matches the de Havilland Chipmunk shown on their page in the trainer category. Ain't familiar with it myself. Don't remember seeing it before. Other'n that, your guess is better'n mine.
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Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2541 on: January 05, 2015, 08:21:36 AM »
That works for me? I am more familiar with the fighter planes than the trainers.
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Offline Arcey

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2542 on: January 05, 2015, 07:52:54 PM »
Reckon a trainer makes more sense. The name 'Chipmunk' ain't exactly gonna terrorize the enemy....
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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2543 on: Today at 08:19:40 PM »

Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2543 on: January 05, 2015, 07:57:58 PM »
Nope, Chipmunk does not any fear in my heart either.
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Offline Lucky Irish Tom

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2544 on: January 10, 2015, 09:13:16 AM »
Hmm! The Flying Tigers or the Fighting Chipmunks, yep an easy choice.
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Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2545 on: January 10, 2015, 09:28:32 AM »
Speaking of Flying Tigers, I got to attend the last reunion of the Flying Tigers last fall at Cavanaugh Flight Museum at Addison, Tx. Last fall. There were a large number of Chinese folks that came over that their ancestors were part of the Chinese maintenance crews for the planes. We also had a flyover by the P-40s belonging to Cavanaugh's and the CAF.
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Offline pony express

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2546 on: January 11, 2015, 11:12:14 PM »
That would be something to see. While the P-40, wouldn't be considered a "best" fighter plane in most any list, it's one of my favorites. First I just love the way it looks, and second, I just have a soft spot for things that "weren't the best, but it was what we had and we made it work".  That same sentiment would go for the F4F Wildcat, too.

Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2547 on: January 12, 2015, 02:05:31 AM »
The P-40 was obsolete against the Zero. It was better suited to ground support than as a fighter aircraft. The Hellcat gave the Navy and Marines an aircraft superior to rhe Zero.
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Offline pony express

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2548 on: January 12, 2015, 04:58:42 PM »
While all agreed that it wasn't a very good idea to dogfight a Zero with a P-40, I also recall reading from a P-40 pilot in North Africa/ Italy, that the situation was reversed when it came to P-40 vs Bf109s. His words were something like "109s should never try to turn with a P-40." But I think the 109s had advantages against the p-40 in other areas, besides the fact that the main job in Europe became escorting bombers, and P-40s didn't have the range.

Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2549 on: January 13, 2015, 07:45:31 AM »
My Dad arrived in North Africa in October, 42 with the 12th AF. Their fighter cover was the Free French AF, they had a bunch of wore out Hurricanes flown by members of the Lafayette Escridrlle.
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Offline pony express

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2550 on: January 14, 2015, 04:27:50 PM »
Yeah, once the Free French used up the stuff they had, all they got was everyone's castoffs. Their ground troops in Europe later on were mostly armed with US 1917 Enfields. I wouldn't be surprised if they got the P-40's after we upgraded to P-47s and P-51s.

Offline Mean Bob Mean

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2551 on: January 26, 2015, 01:22:01 PM »
While all agreed that it wasn't a very good idea to dogfight a Zero with a P-40, I also recall reading from a P-40 pilot in North Africa/ Italy, that the situation was reversed when it came to P-40 vs Bf109s. His words were something like "109s should never try to turn with a P-40." But I think the 109s had advantages against the p-40 in other areas, besides the fact that the main job in Europe became escorting bombers, and P-40s didn't have the range.

Actually, you don't mean "dogfight" because there are several moves in dogfighting, not all of which favor the Zero.  You mean "flat turn" which is the only real area that a Zeke outclassed US planes.  After the Thatch weave, it was all academic.  

The flat turn was used by novice pilots and those who panicked.  The Flying Tigers had an ungodly kill ratio against the Ki-43 Oscar which turns as flat or flatter than does the Zero.  They did so by using "dogfighting" tactics that favored their AC, namely Boom and Zoom.  Any US plane could leave a Zeke behind by diving, once the F6 hit the market, the game was completely rigged.  Note that when US researchers got their hands on an actual Zero they were appalled at what Junk it was.

The reason the Japanese aircraft had a great reputation was that Japanese pilots were absolutely fantastic at the start of the war and had a great deal of combat experience. 
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Offline Four-Eyed Buck

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2552 on: January 26, 2015, 05:53:21 PM »
The Zero's had a better rate of climb than our earlier fighters( 40's,39's, F-4-F's). If they could force our guys to climb, dead meat.  ::)
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Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2553 on: January 26, 2015, 05:59:40 PM »
The Hellcat was an equal to the Zero. The Hell cat had self sealing gas tanks and 6 50 cal machine guns.
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Offline Four-Eyed Buck

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2554 on: January 26, 2015, 07:17:19 PM »
A lot of dead Japanese pilots tried the climb bit with the F-6's mistaking them for the F-4's. took them quite a while to figure it wouldn't work ::)
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Offline Arcey

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2555 on: January 27, 2015, 06:54:00 AM »
Apollo 1.

January 27, 1967.

Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee. Rest in peace.
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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2556 on: January 27, 2015, 08:40:27 AM »
In 1966, My Dad and I were at the Indy 500, we were going through the Museum. I noticed that Gus Grissom was standing next to my Dad. I whispered to my Dad that he was standing next to Gus. Dad knew he was one of the Mercury astronauts, but did not recognize him.
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Offline Mean Bob Mean

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2557 on: January 27, 2015, 11:05:06 AM »
The Zero's had a better rate of climb than our earlier fighters( 40's,39's, F-4-F's). If they could force our guys to climb, dead meat.  ::)

That is correct, the Zero was better to about 9-10K as I recall, at higher altitudes it's performance suffered (including turn rate) so, depending on where you were I would tend to agree with you.  The Japanese as you recall were used to having air superiority and fighting at lower altitudes.  At higher altitudes it had no business fighting any US Iron made after 1940 excepting maybe the 39 which they stupidly stripped of its supercharger, even then at higher alts, likely no.  But again, a booming US plane had vastly superior airspeed (P-40B could dive at 480 or better, a Zeke tapped out 100 MPH less in a dive) and climb rate was negated much by that:  not all dogfights were fought from zero altitude up, as it were.  I would still posit that Pilot experience and years at the craft were the greatest factors in the early going.  Japan had a long training program and war experience, they had superb pilots early on.  After 1942, they had very, very few fully trained pilots and no training program to bring new pilots online at the same level of capability as new US pilots.  Also, the heavily armored US craft--even those you note in the early war--afforded a higher pilot survival rate so, again the US planes were superior.  So, essentially the Japanese had a better chance (maybe even odds) for a few months, maybe 9-12, and after that, they had "Zero" chance (pun intended).  

The great Japanese ace, Saburo Sakai, when asked how the Japanese could rationalize Kamikaze attacks said that sending the raw recruits up against F6Fs and F4Us etc., was in fact suicide and that it was simply logic, not delusional belief in the nation:  you are going to die, may as well take someone with you, it was plain odds for him, not militaristic zeal.  

It's a funny argument because the US had built a Naval plane and two US Army planes that could have out dogged the Zeke early on:  The F4F but they over armed and armored it.  The stripped, original specifications model flying as the FM2 was an awesome little fighter.  The Army craft were the original design of the P-39 with a supercharger and the P-38.  The 38 was unconventional and extremely expensive so it lost out but that plane could eat up just about anything in either theater in the right hands.  

Cheers friend
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Offline Four-Eyed Buck

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2558 on: January 27, 2015, 02:28:03 PM »
Agreed. I think the FM-2 had a higher horse power engine than the original F-4's as well. The FM-2's were well suited to ops off the jeep carriers ::)
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Offline Texas Lawdog

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Re: Aircraft
« Reply #2559 on: January 27, 2015, 06:56:49 PM »
The seasoned Japanese pilots were killed off in the major battles of Coral Sea and Midway, By the end of 43 and the first part of 44, all that were left were young and inexperienced in obsolete and poorly made newer planes. The Kamakizes were out of desperation, to destroy as many naval ships as possible, by crashing into ships. The young pilots were told that it was honor to die for the Emperor.
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