Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: U.S.M.R. on October 16, 2020, 11:56:30 AM
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Shooting.45-70 in .45-75
A few years ago I sold a chapperel rifle in.45-75 to a gunshop
were my brother worked so I could get a Uberti carbine in.45-75. They sold the rifle and the person brought it back complaining that his.45-70 cases were over expanding when fired. They explained the difference and gave his money back.
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As The Duke would say......"Life is tough. It's even tougher when you're stupid."
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Sheesh!
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I don't even know how you could do that. Would 45-70 cartridges even go into a 45-75 chamber (let alone allow the action to close)? I've never tried that, but wow--such ignorance is dangerous!
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Coal Creek,
You are totally correct just how did he do that. We all know that 2.10" does not equal a 1.89" COL.
But A Gun Is Just A Gun. An only 45-70 brass is readily available, so DUH.
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What a maroon!
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And just think, he gets to vote next month.
Dave
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Sometimes I just cant help meself - hafta try stuff -
This sounded really really stoopid - how can he do it ?
Obviously got her done -
So -- My uberti 76 takes brass trimmed to 1.963.
Took a new winchester 45/70 and fed it in (empty of course) a little resistance at the end but no trouble really
Ejects ok and there is a little swaged section at the end of the case mouth - so trim that off to 2.000 neat and that case would feed in ok
Two ways this could go .....badly .....or get away with it.
1) trim the case to 2.000 and use a low pressure load - case is gonna come out like a balloon but if it dont split ? mission accomplished
2) load it like it is, the correct OAL is gonna have the crimp well over the ogive of the boolit and it proly gonna chamber alright - but firing it will kinda swage the boolit down some as it exits the case (I measured .454 after the throat had swaged the empty case down) - low pressure smokeless or BP loads you proly get away with this deal or shorten the case it work better - accuracy proly gone to (that hot place) but is he likely to notice? Rim size works - neck diameter works - if they fire formed without splitting ???????
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greyhawk,
Nice experiment and I can understand your results. Agree with your possible conclusions of final end. But, I would like to hear what trying to load a 457 or even original 456 bullets into that swaged 454 case mouth would end up as and then see if it would load into your chamber.
I would expect that a bullet would expand the mouth more than the chamber would allow.
I am very surprised that Uberti has a longer chamber than original designs. All the Winchester caliber COL were set a 1.89"(50 maybe a little longer) but none out to 1.96".
Thanks for trying that out and reporting what happened. But he could never have cycled the longer 45/70 through magazine into the 2.25 lifter and into the chamber. That is for certain.
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It was a Chaparral that he shot it in. As I remember their chambers left something to be desired. But I always wondered how got it in there. In Houze’s book he mentions Winchester has an experimental .45-90 that they single loaded. They said the action was quite strong. In any event I have always wondered how the gun held together.
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRPZyanBU4SpHmxVAuqDDsyL7bgOhKHZ76NRg&usqp=CAU)
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U.S.M.R.
So, I have a Chaparral in 45/60 (that my fired brass come out tapered, not necked), I took a new empty case and it would not 'even come close' to fully seating in the chamber. I also looked at the Manual and the Chaparral cartridge drawings indicate the 45/60 should be COL of 1.89 and the 45/75 is 1.85. So unless your chamber was incorrectly bored by the factory, I still do not understand how the person even Fired a 2.1" casing in it. Not your fault or problem but still a HUH moment on my part.
Greyhawk,
I did see that the 50/95 does have a longer COL that is out to 1.95 according to the Chaparral Manual.
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U.S.M.R.
So, I have a Chaparral in 45/60 (that my fired brass come out tapered, not necked), I took a new empty case and it would not 'even come close' to fully seating in the chamber. I also looked at the Manual and the Chaparral cartridge drawings indicate the 45/60 should be COL of 1.89 and the 45/75 is 1.85. So unless your chamber was incorrectly bored by the factory, I still do not understand how the person even Fired a 2.1" casing in it. Not your fault or problem but still a HUH moment on my part.
Greyhawk,
I did see that the 50/95 does have a longer COL that is out to 1.95 according to the Chaparral Manual.
I think you fellers missed one crucial little bit of my surmise (just for the heck of it I will try this - but I aint gonna pull the trigger on it)
So to get a round that would cycle from the magazine, the boolit would need to be buried deep enough in the case that you could then crimp/swage the extra length of brass over the ogive - that would make it small enough to chamber ok -
However when it fires you have .100 of the case neck stuffed up into the lead of the rifling/throat or whatever is the term - could be a good way to stretch a case or tear the end off it - if the boolits are undersize by 4 or 5 thou he might got away with it -if they soft enough to slug up they might even shoot ok -----if the guy is dumb enough to do this in the first place would he really notice any of this??????
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just for the heck of it
45/70 winchester brass 50 grains FFg + card wad + 405 grain FP loaded to max length to cycle in my 76 there only maybe 2tenths (or less) of lead sticking out the end of the case
- seated and crimped with a standard LEE 45/75 die,
then to be sure I ran it into a swage die that I made for my sharps -
that one is correct outside dia for my sharps chamber then has a little taper -
kind of a taper crimp die I guess - anyways after that
- that 45/70 cycled through the 76 action and FELL into the chamber
I will pull that load or shoot it off in my 1886 one day
Sooooo this character coulda done what they said he done with relative ease - the loaded rounds woulda looked kinda funny - if the boolits were some undersize the gun proly didnt feel any ill effects from it - and if the brass stood the fire forming - he just reinvented the wheel without even realising it .
Still a dumb idea and has the potential to go bad if the cases are not reduced in length .....................................................
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One thing to say about this idea . No Don't Do It !!! ,,,,DT
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All I can say is YIKES, would not thought - it could be done. YIKES! YIKES!
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when I read this first thing that came to mind is I didn't realize you could get a gallon of water in a quart jar. Never figured it would have fit the chamber. Bad business all way around.
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when I read this first thing that came to mind is I didn't realize you could get a gallon of water in a quart jar. Never figured it would have fit the chamber. Bad business all way around.
Just goes to show how easy it is to do dumb stuff ! even after I thought about it and figured it was proly gonna work I was amazed at how easy it was with gear I had on the shelf. Like I said that bodgy round fell into my uberti chamber -----If the guy was using leverevolution brass and his chappy chamber is a bit long - he maybe only stretched the cases out - my gun woulda had a tenth inch ring of brass jammed in the rifling ahead of the boolit main diameter - any guess on pressure from that ? not gonna find out here any time soon ......................................................