Author Topic: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads  (Read 578 times)

Offline blackpowder

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Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« on: February 27, 2021, 04:03:30 AM »
Hi Fellas !

I asked this same question 12 years ago: Can the Uberti 1873 action safely digest full house .357mag loads? The consensus was that if used sparingly, chances are the linkage will stand up to the pressures without taking harm, however, better to shoot reduced pressure loads or simply .38spl for those who do not handload. But that was then and this is now. 12 years later one can read many reports of vastly improved quality and workmanship at Uberti, putting out stronger and better firearms. Recently they even introduced 1873 carbines in .44 magnum !? So, I figure they must know what they are doing, introducing 1873s in such a powerful caliber and probably they are using improved and better steels - or strengthened the actions somehow?

Does anyone have any thoughts or first hand experience with this?

Stay safe and healthy !
"A horse is a horse, it ain't make a difference what color it is" -  John Wayne

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2021, 09:01:56 AM »

 :)  HI BLACKPOWDER   ;)

I'm not a consensus, nor have I slept in a Holliday Inn Express (That I admit) but I was a practicing Gunplumber back then and now retired.  In my Opine, the Uberti 1873, chambered in 357 has ALWAYS been capable of running SAAMI level 357 Magnum.

There are gobs of Old Wives Tails about the fragility of Toggle Link rifles.  Hogwash.  there is no reason to restrict a 357 1873 to "38 Special."

Stay Well out There

Offline blackpowder

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2021, 08:01:57 AM »
As usual, you are probably right. For my part, I handload my empty .357 cases with 6 grains of Vihtavuori N340 behind 158gr bullets. Seems a compromise somewhere between .38Spl and .357 performance. :)
"A horse is a horse, it ain't make a difference what color it is" -  John Wayne

Offline Severo Gallegos

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2021, 05:22:53 AM »
What about 357 factory ammo with CIP standard, is it safe to fire those in a Miroku 1873? I've noticed that both Fiocchi and S&B 158 grains do have slightly higher listed muzzle velocity compared to remington and winchesters factory loads.

Offline David Battersby

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 07:19:51 AM »
The only problem that I could imagine is cases with lubricant on them.   Full pressure loads will expand the case into the chamber walls sealing the bore with possibly less bolt thrust than a light load in the same brass. A full power 357 magnum load in an oily case may not grip the chamber as well and increase the bolt thrust substantially.  NOW , this is my thought on the subject. If I am wrong my feelings won't be hurt if I am corrected.
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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:22:48 AM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 08:55:23 AM »

 :)  Hi David  ;)

That's a pretty fair WAG (Military Acronym of Wild Ass'd Guess) but is unsubstantiated.  You'd need some really sophisticated test equipment to determine the actual answer.  It's actually academic only.

The rifles in question, Uberti 1873, chambered 357 Magnum and Miroku 1873, chambered 357 Magnum, were designed for and proofed for 357 Magnum ammunition.  The guns will digest it all day long.  Consider this:  The Uberti 1873 is also chambered for full wallop 44 Magnum and suffer no ill effects.

Now the reality check.  NONE of the straight wall pistol cases actually expand sufficiently to completely seal the chamber.  Should you doubt that, simply inspect the Bolt Face, front face of the Carrier Block and the barrel Breach Face after 50 or so rounds.  38 Spl, 357, 44 Spl, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, no matter.  ALL suffer Blow By.  In handguns, ALL of those cases move to the rear at initial ignition, to rest on the recoil shield, then the cylinder moves to the rear to reseat the cases in the chamber.  The same thing happens in a Rifle (sorta). The case moves to the rear the amount of Headspace at the bolt and stays there.

Worry not about shooting 357 Ammunition (SAAMI Spec) in a Toggle Link Rifle.

Offline Trailrider

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 11:05:47 AM »
How much adherence of the cartridge case to the chamber wall depends on the peak pressure, strength of the brass (thickness and anneal will affect this).  That said, the toggle-link action is stronger than most people think.  Take the sideplate off one of those rifles and note the line of backthrust runs straight through from the bolt to the shoulders of the receiver.  (The rear link should contact the shoulder. Unfortunately, in some instances it does not, so the force is taken up by the pivot pin. The pin then takes the force in shear with some bending. If strong pins are in place, such as if the pins are hardened drillrod, the pin won't bend, nor shear.)  The P08 Luger is a toggle-link action, and there was at least one rifle design of the same type that was chambered for .276, as was the original Garand, before Army Chief of Staff Douglas MacArthur ordered it chambered for .30-06. I'm not sure I would want to subject the "brass" framed guns to repeated highpressure loads due to possible deformation of the shoulders, but a steel receiver '73 should have no problems with .44 Mangle-em factory loads, IF Uberti guarrantees them for that level.
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Offline Bryan Austin

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2021, 06:42:42 AM »
It does interest me that these "wives tales" do remind me of the Liberal Media. When an incident happens, the "media" actually reports the incident in such a way that they actually manipulate how people view what happened.

If you buy a Corvette and run it whole dog all day long every day, will it wear-out? If you take a Chevy Chevette and try to run it like a dragster, what will happen?

If it is stamped 44 Magnum, it will digest 44 Magnum loads...if it is stamped 357 Magnum, it will digest 357 loads.

I perform "annual inspections" on my firearms they same as I do my airplanes! In other words, preventative maintenance is your best friend.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2021, 09:55:05 AM »

 >:(  Hello Bryan   >:(

I find your reference to "Liberal Media" to politicize a rather simple subject to be really annoying.  Especially since you're entirely "off base."  Political dissertations have no place in our context.

 

Offline Bryan Austin

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2021, 10:51:58 AM »
>:(  Hello Bryan   >:(

I find your reference to "Liberal Media" to politicize a rather simple subject to be really annoying.  Especially since you're entirely "off base."  Political dissertations have no place in our context.

I rest my case!

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Re: Uberti 1873 toggle action and magnum loads
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:22:48 AM »

 

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