Author Topic: Cleaning between stages  (Read 3886 times)

Offline Stew

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Cleaning between stages
« on: January 02, 2021, 03:26:56 PM »
When shooting Black powder how often do you clean or swab the barrel during a match? I shoot 45LC and mostly use Trail Boss but I find I have more BP then smokles.
Thanks.

Offline Froogal

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2021, 03:48:05 PM »
When shooting Black powder how often do you clean or swab the barrel during a match? I shoot 45LC and mostly use Trail Boss but I find I have more BP then smokles.
Thanks.

Curious about that myself. If I had enough primers, I would load about 200 or so .45 Colts with black powder, head out to my backyard range and experiment.

Offline Major 2

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2021, 04:24:01 PM »
There is no single answer to many variables

I:E:   Lube itself ,  lube groove capacity, barrel OAL length , cylinder gap

As a rule of thumb,  pull a Ballistol/water (10 W to 1 Bal ) damp bore snake through the barrel and wipe the Cyl face with
the mixture ( aka Moose milk ) after 3 stages and Bob is your Uncle.

You'll get as many answers as this thread is long  :)


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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:38:41 PM »

Offline Abilene

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2021, 04:25:49 PM »
My pistol BP loads are simple, no matter the caliber.   Melt the lube out of the smokeless bullet.  load cartridges with BP and an unlubed bullet.  Squirt some butter flavored Crisco over the first two rounds after loading the cylinder.  Fire away.  No cleaning needed until you are done, and then they clean easy.  In 45's I use 25gr of BP, grits filler, and 200gr bullet.  If you wanna go big bullets and no filler, fine, works the same way.  Short pistol barrels don't need that much lube anyway.  Rifle is where you start needing more lube.  If I was shooting unlubed bullets with real BP in a rifle, I'd swab every couple stages probably.  Depends on results at the time.  With my single lube groove bullets loaded with soft lube in my rifle bullets, I never need to swab but my barrels are no longer than 20" and I'm not in a real dry climate which makes a difference.

Coffinmaker is probably taking a nap, but he'll be along to say that if you use APP then you never have to swab it anyway.  :)

Offline Stew

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2021, 04:38:51 PM »
My pistol BP loads are simple, no matter the caliber.   Melt the lube out of the smokeless bullet.  load cartridges with BP and an unlubed bullet.  Squirt some butter flavored Crisco over the first two rounds after loading the cylinder.  Fire away.  No cleaning needed until you are done, and then they clean easy.  In 45's I use 25gr of BP, grits filler, and 200gr bullet.  If you wanna go big bullets and no filler, fine, works the same way.  Short pistol barrels don't need that much lube anyway.  Rifle is where you start needing more lube.  If I was shooting unlubed bullets with real BP in a rifle, I'd swab every couple stages probably.  Depends on results at the time.  With my single lube groove bullets loaded with soft lube in my rifle bullets, I never need to swab but my barrels are no longer than 20" and I'm not in a real dry climate which makes a difference.

Coffinmaker is probably taking a nap, but he'll be along to say that if you use APP then you never have to swab it anyway.  :)

Awesome,
Thank for the reply!

Offline River City John

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2021, 04:53:24 PM »
We're supposed to clean 'em?
"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2021, 05:41:00 PM »

 :)  HA!!  Abilene be Correctamundo   ;)

Except:  First to address the OP's specific query.  When running "Real Powder" I don't.  Not in Pistol barrels.  I also don't run "Lube Cookies" or anything of that nature.  I run "Big Lube" bullets.  Big Lube bullets carry all the lube you could possibly want.  I DO spray a little PAM on a rag and wipe the cylinder face on Suppository Shooters.  I also by my Big Lube bullets from a supplier who Casts, Swages and Lubes then ships them in nifty little trays.  No gooey stuff needed at all.

When shooting my Cap Guns,  I load on a cylinder loading stand.  Pull the Cylinder, Wipe down the cylinder face (PAM), wipe down the barrel breach face and the Arbor.  Still shoot Big Lubes (EPP UG - 45).  No need for any extra lube.

I don't swab the barrels EVER.  No Need.

Now we come to the IMPORTANT PART.  My ALL TIME favorite propellant is APP.  No lubes of any kind needed. EVER.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  Zero.  Matters not what kind bullets or round Ball you happen to be shooting.  NO LUBES.  IF all you have are smokeless bullets, who cares!!  Don't even melt out the crayon lube.  Shoot em as waz.  Simple.

HOWEVER:  My routine is EXACTLY the same with APP as with Real Powder.  If shooting Suppositories, I wipe down the cylinder face between stages.  Take about 10 seconds.  Gun is Free Running and Sanitary the whole match.  Same same APP,  gun runs as quick and smooth after 12 stages as it did at the first stage.

Should you become interested in 21st Century Propellant, Look up "Bullets by Scarlett".  She can supply you with APP.  I'm down to about 26 pounds so I'll have to call when the season starts in Spring.  I use a lot of APP.

Oh, forgot.  running APP in rifles is the same.  NO LUBES.  Just BOOMBA!!

Stay Safe

Offline Stew

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 06:02:52 PM »
APP.      American Pioneer Powder???

Offline Drydock

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2021, 06:24:21 PM »
I clean when I get home after the match.  Real BP (I like Goex Olde Eynesford) under bullets designed for it, having generous lube grooves filled with proper lubricant.  (make my own 2 parts beeswax and one part olive oil)  In my range box is a nice greasy rag well lubed with Ballistol that I wipe revolvers with between stages.  Clean with plain water and lube with Ballistol.  Water is the best BP solvent hands down.

Water does not cause corrosion!  Free oxigen in the water does.  Ballistol or similar lubricants/protectants emulsify with water and prevent oxidation.  Whale oil did much the same thing for the ODGs.

BP fouling is not nearly as corrosive as you may have thought, especally when mixed with the proper lubricant.  The old mercuric primers were far worse.  I only fully break my guns down once a year or so.  While I often find a light greasy soot, never any corrosion beneath it.  The right lubricant makes all the difference.

Some military matchs I attend, where I might put 30 rounds thru a BP single shot rifle in one string, at the end I'll often pull the cork of my canteen and dump a swallow or so into the breech and down the barrel.  Works great!
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2021, 06:35:49 PM »

 :)  STEW   ;)

YEP.  Got it in ONE   ;D

Now, I'd like to elaborate on Drydock.  Entirely TRUE.  BP, in and of itself is not corrosive.  The problem is, the BP residue or "fouling" traps moisture next to the steel or iron the gun is made of.  Removing that fouling is important.

I am not a fan of, nor like Ballistol.  It has too much water in it.  However, contrary to what some believe, WATER is THE BEST BP Solvent.  Other stuff is just handier.  My GO-TO at a match is PAM.  Hydrogen Peroxide, Alcohol, and Murphy's Oil Soap in equal parts.  Neutralizes the corrosives in the fouling, cleans and dries.

There are several BP Substitutes that are EXTREAMLY corrosive.  The very WORST is Pyrodex.  Pyrodex is a rusting agent that happens to burn.  I have seen Pyrodex cause flash rust within minutes of shooting.  Avoid it like Covid.  777 is a little better.  Least corrosive is APP.

Stay Safe

Offline Drydock

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2021, 07:16:31 PM »
Now Coffin, I did not say BP fouling is not corrosive, I said it is not AS corrosive as some seem to think.  As in "Oh crap I need to viscously scrub and purify while the gun is still warm!"

 Not like, say, that gawd awful pyrodex shite!
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Stew

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2021, 07:25:31 PM »
I currently have around 25lds of 3f Goex so thats what I'll be using,  never have used the non Black powder stuff I've always used true Black powder.

Offline Froogal

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2021, 09:18:23 AM »
Next question. When you guys load the powder into the shells, do you measure with a dipper for each one, or do you use something like the Lee powder measure?

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2021, 11:03:11 AM »

 :)  Froogal   ;)

Personally, I load on a pair of DILLON 650s.  I run BP thru the DILLON powder measure just like smokeless.

There are those who LOUDLY YELL don't do that.  You'll blow yourself to Smithereens.  Not found that to be true.  However, it's your decision.  Only thing I use a scoop for is loading my Cap Guns.

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Offline Stew

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2021, 11:33:10 AM »
Next question. When you guys load the powder into the shells, do you measure with a dipper for each one, or do you use something like the Lee powder measure?
I've always used a dipper

Offline Drydock

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2021, 12:44:44 PM »
For pistol caliber ammunition, I use a Lee dipper, a coffee mug, and a rubber band across the top to level the dipper, then dump it into the case via a Lee powder thru die. (Turret press)  For Rifle caliber ammunition, I have a Belding and Mull powder measure,  a 24" drop tube, and a compression die if needed.

Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Major 2

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2021, 01:54:10 PM »
Similar to Drydock,  a ceramic bowl and
 I use  my own made dipper(s)...one of the cases (sacrificed ) I'd be loading,  cut down to the point where the bullet seats and lightly compresses the BP (3FFF) . These are all in a holder on my bench.

Twisted wire  & 1/4"  dowel  handle color coded to which ever caliber and labeled on the dowel as to Caliber it specific for.

like the "rule of thumb" wipe down I stated above  it is my method, anal perhaps , but everyone can do it as they set fit.

FYI I also make my own boxes  :)

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Froogal

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2021, 03:50:18 PM »
:)  Froogal   ;)

Personally, I load on a pair of DILLON 650s.  I run BP thru the DILLON powder measure just like smokeless.

There are those who LOUDLY YELL don't do that.  You'll blow yourself to Smithereens.  Not found that to be true.  However, it's your decision.  Only thing I use a scoop for is loading my Cap Guns.

Stay Safe

I intend to try it that way with my Lee perfect powder measure. I will be using Goex fff. I have tried the powder measure with APP, but I couldn't get any consistency. The size of the APP granules seemed to be inconsistent also.


I will play around and see what I come up with.

Offline Dave T

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2021, 09:56:10 AM »
Major,

Very KOOL box.

Back in the 1980s when I first got into BP cartridge shooting I was influenced by the "Firendship" school of black powder shooters who told everyone how corrosive BP was and that hot, soapy water was the only answer. And if you were one of those weird folks who shot cartridge guns you should take them down completely every time you shoot.

They had me so paranoid I ran a brush dipped in soapy water through the barrels and cylinders of my revolvers, my rifle's barrel and chamber, and the shotgun's bores between stages. This was when the only powder available was GOEX, and before their Cartridge grade was offered. I was an early customer of SPG but I had traditionally designed bullet molds with small to medium grease grooves.

Fouling did gum up a revolver after 8-10 rounds and would affect long range accuracy for my 73 Winchester. We shot rifle targets out to 50+ yards back then. And I swabbed the bores of my shotgun, partly out of habit and partly because I feared the dreade black powder corrosion in it's Damascus barrels.

I'm a bit older and hopefully wiser now, and I've discovered Big Lube bullets. A week ago today I was at the range re-teaching myself trigger control (I haven't shot much this past year) and fired 95 rounds of heavier than CAS black powder loads through one of my USFA revolvers. Despite it's very tight tolerances and the dry climate I live in (humidity that day was 12-15%) the hammer cocked easily and the cylinder turned freely for the nearly 100 rounds of shooting.

Dave

Offline Major 2

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Re: Cleaning between stages
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2021, 10:30:19 AM »
Thanks , They work and hold up well....
when planets align...do the deal !

 

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