Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: Flatlander55 on March 26, 2020, 11:36:55 PM
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Greetings,
Recently I purchased a used .44 Pietta 1860 Army, and while I love it, I absolutely detest the stock screws that protrude from the frame. They are annoying and quite frankly mess with the feel of the gun in my opinion. Can somebody here please help me figure out what the thread pitch is so I can order some plug screws so the frame is flush? Also, when I bought the gun it was missing one single grip frame screw. Does anybody know the pitch of that as well so I can get them both at the same time? I don't want to order a whole new set of complete screws just for one missing screw, or buy one screw and pay $7.00 in shipping for a .50 cent piece.
Thanks in advance.
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Nope. No Idea. Have no clue. When still gainfully employed (Gunplumber) I went looking for some form of "Plug" screws for those annoying Shoulder Stock Screws and had no Joy.
Plan "B" I took the shoulder stock screws out of the frame (they are a bugger to get back in) and cut the driver slot thru the "cap" and into the body. Carefully and slowly filed the cap off then re-installed the (now a plug) screw in the frame with RED LocTite. Insure when putting the screw body back into the frame, the screw does NOT intrude into the inner spaces for the lock works.
Plan "C" Same as the above only don't completely remove the screw head. Take it down very thin then polish and smooth the head. You won't notice it's there. Same same, re-install the screw with RED LocTite.
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Is there a Pietta or Uberti 1860 that does not have the stock screws? I hate them also.
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Hey Treebeard!!
Pietta YES. Pietta has versions of the 1860 (Civilian) that do not have the stock screws. Also perhaps of interest, the never never .44 caliber 1851s by Pietta are sans stock screws.
My post got hi-jacked before I was finished. Uberti offer "civilian" versions of the 1860 sans those nasty stock screws.
I don't like those stock screw even a little bit. Always seemed to scratch my hands and thumb. Learned to take em down to nothing and make 'em smooth.
One may have to shop around for the 1860 Civilians.
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Or, you could send me the screws and have this (they screw in from the inside).
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:D Oh YES!! :D
Way cool Monsieur Dragoon. Mine look similar except they still have the screwdriver slot. Doing away with the slot is just pure KOOL!!
Not only are the little buggers scratchey (OEM) but they are the devil's own ROYAL PITA to get started inna threads. Atz why I put em back in with RED LocTite. Don't ever wanna take 'em back out no sir.
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Thanks CM!! I just did a pair for Abilene not long ago.
Mike
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They are a bugger. I did Coffinmakers plan C. Easy to do and you don't even know they are there anymore. Jw
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Here's what Dragoon 45 Mike did to mine (with screw slot on inside).
(http://davidscottharper.com/photos/ShoulderStockScrewMod-2.jpg)
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Thanks Abilene! They look great on your conversion!!
Mike
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Have to say the best way to cover them up is with a shoulder stock
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Lots of good ideas all. Thanks!
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:D Hey Mogo :D
Dino-mite idea. I thought about that, bu found it somewhat problematic when trying to pull TWO of them at the same time and shoot Gunfighter. I must admit, the entire Posse liked to died laughing whilst watching me shoot the only stage I tried it on :o ::)
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OK Fellas,
I have a 3rd Model Dragoon (converted to .45 Colt), so I traded out the shoulder stock to avoid having the feds kick in my front door. I still have the offending screws. I like plan C, but don't know how you stick the screwdriver in to screw the modified screws back in. Help!
Reverend Chase
ps: it's not .45 Long Colt.
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I have toyed with the idea of using it for a NCOWS shoot. Having two Colt Armies loaded and switch them on the clock. I have gotten a bit better with my Henry, but early on, I was just about equal with the Henry or the Army on stock at 75 yards. I also have one of those Buffalo Remingtons that have the 12 inch barrel. you can get a modified Hammer bolt and it will take a stock. I had to do some interior shaping but they are completely interchangeable now. It is a tack driver.
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Well, sufice it to say (tried to post a pic), I have a customers 3rd mod. Dragoon (ASM) with an 18 inch barrel!!! First ever I have seen!! Anyway, would be perfectly legal with a conversion cyl. How cool is Zat?!!!
Mike
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Oh we need pics!!!!
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Reverend Chase, To accomplish plan C, first deepen the slot with a hacksaw and knock the shoulders off the screw and thin the head. You will end up with a domed screw head. Jw
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Thanks Jack,
That's probably the easiest approach. I till wonder about the idea of screwing in from the back.
Reverend Chase
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Thanks Jack,
That's probably the easiest approach. I till wonder about the idea of screwing in from the back.
Reverend Chase
You stick the screwdriver through the hole on the other side to screw in the first one. Then the second can still be reached with the screwdriver at an angle with the triggerguard off.
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Abilene is right. The deeper threaded hole first, then the short one.
Mike
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Jack Wagon, what is the purpose of the brass rod? Wack it with hammer to seat balls?
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Abilene, That brass rod is my onboard wedge tool and ejector for my Howell non gated conversion cylinder. Jw
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Thanx Guys,
That clears up my questions. Now all I have to do is get up the gumption to take my limited tools and even more limited skills and have at those screws.
Reverend Chase
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Anyone know the thread size for those screws?
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:) Oldgold ;)
Certainly. Most happy to Oblige. They are Short/Tiny/Thin.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. I have no clue. Never even tempted to find out. After re-cutting the screwdriver slot and radically thinning the screw head, I just put 'em back in with RED LocTite and forget about them.
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I have seen both originals and reproduction revolvers with screws that the head is only about 1/32” thick to keep it from going too far in. Easy enough fix.
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Howdy all (again),
As a point of interest, it is my understanding that, once a gated conversion is performed on the sixgun, it is federally illegal to be in possession of a shoulder stock. Too bad as that would be very cool. I'm not sure if it is a problem if the loading channel is not cut.
FYI and anyone please chime in if I'm misinformed.
Rev. Chase
ps: I got rid of my shoulder stock before my dragoon was converted.
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It's illegal to have it attached. Even with a drop cylinder conversion ( non- gated ) it would be illegal with the cartridge cylinder installed. Ida kept my shoulder stock if I had one!!
Mike
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Howdy Dragoon and all,
I think the possession problem is when the cartridge channel has been cut. Without the cut and the percussion cylinder and shoulder stock - no problem. With a non-gated cylinder and no cartridge cut, I don't think possession of an unmounted stock is a problem. However, my legal opinion my be invalid as my expertise is advertising (and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express).
Rev. Chase
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Rev.,
Yes, the frame becomes the firearm when provision for using the gate is done ( opening up the recoil shield). Likewise, as long as a "drop cylinder" is installed in a B.P. revolver, it is a firearm. Therefore, a stock is illegal in that instance as well. What you're saying is just possession of a stock while owning a gated conversion makes you a criminal . . . I'd say "show me the statute". I'm not saying you're wrong, it just makes absolutely no sense unless a.) It's a " new" law or b) you can show intent.
I would think installation of shaved 4th screws ( or buttons) in your gated frame (removing the provision) would/should satisfy any such law. Thus, you couldn't ever use the stock on that frame and allow you possession of the stock.
I don't own a stock nor care to but it's amazing how far some will go for just "that little bit" of control over somebody else. Do you have to register your stock? Lol!! (Interesting)
Mike
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Howdy 45,
I can't "show" you the statute. As I said, I have no legal expertise, but I remember that years ago there was a big stink about Luger and Mauser stocks. I think that has changed. I was advised about the stock situation by an FFL holder whose opinion I respect(ed). He's no longer with us, so I can't refer to him.
Like you, I didn't really want the stock anyway. I was mentioning the situation as I understood it to get a discussion opened in the hope that it could be clarified or debunked. Frankly I have never seen a definitive answer. I suppose one could contact the ATF and ask the question, but I fall into the group that says: "you don't wake up a snake to kill it".
Rev. Chase
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Lol!!! I hear ya Rev. !!
Good post!
Mike
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:) BATTER UP !! Put Me In Coach ;)
Here we are in Grey Matter. No, not the runny grey stuff in yer head. That Grey area where the "Law" is ambiguous.
In Grosest Brittania, should you exit the Pub with Car Keys in hand, it shows "intent" and one is subject to immediate arrest. Same Same walking down the street at night with Crow Bar in hand. Intent. That does not apply here. At least not in any court.
Performing a Cartridge Conversion involving a loading slot thru the Recoil Shield is "Manufacturing a Firearm Without License." Legal so long as you do it for yourself. If you try to sell it you become an Unlicensed Firearms Dealer and the BATFE will take great interest in you. That is one Bear you DO NOT want to poke. BATFE take no prisoners and have NO sense of humor what-so-ever. Now, possessing that shoulder stock is not criminal. Attaching that shoulder stock is.
Doing a conversion with a "Drop in" does NOT manufacture a Firearm. A percussion gun, only becomes a firearm with the cylinder installed. DO NOT attach the stock with the cartridge cylinder installed. BATFE again.
Now the problem. You cannot and will not get a definitive answer to an ambiguous question from BATFE. If you ask the same question of 3 BATFE agents, you WILL get at least FOUR different answers, driven by interpretation. However, if only ONE of them determines you have committed and offense, it's Bracelets time. Remember, BATFE has NO sense of humor. It was surgically removed at birth. DO NOT poke the bear.
There can be varying opine on parts of this topic. But an opinion is like certain body parts. Here is the question, do YOU want to spend every dime you can beg, borrow, or steal, defending yourself in court?? DO NOT poke this Bear. YOU WILL LOSE!!
STAY SAFE OUT THERE
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Thanx Dragoon and Coffin,
Coffinmaker's post exactly capsulizes my thoughts and concerns. In my experience, those who are given the responsibility of enforcing the law frequently don't really know the statutes. That is particularly true when asking for an opinion on a law. It seems a lot like the default answer always is "no and why do you ask?" Best to avoid the whole discussion with officials so as to avoid becoming a "manacle depressive".
Rev. Chase