Author Topic: Carrying More Than One Gun  (Read 67463 times)

Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2014, 01:25:52 AM »
Hi,

Should anyone say that the weight is all in the Bowie; I just weighed it ... the 8 & 1/2" bladed knife is but i a little bit over 1 lb.

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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2014, 09:48:33 AM »
The "Big" knife pretty much went away when cartridge firing weapons came in.  And they certainly would not be carried by a cowboy on a trail drive.

There are several good group photos of Texas Rangers and nearly all of them have a rifle, one pistol and a moderate sized belt knife.


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Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2014, 10:00:30 AM »
If some people did carry more than one revolver it means that it was done. The argument against seems to be that no one ever carried more than one. I think enough examples have been made to say without a doubt that it was done but not by everyone.
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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #63 on: Today at 01:12:01 PM »

Offline bowiemaker

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2014, 10:54:48 AM »
I agree that it is pretty sure that some did carry two pistols although it was not a common practice. I would like to see someone provide an example of someone carrying two pistols, a rifle, and a shotgun.
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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2014, 11:24:01 AM »
I agree that it is pretty sure that some did carry two pistols although it was not a common practice. I would like to see someone provide an example of someone carrying two pistols, a rifle, and a shotgun.

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Offline TwoWalks Baldridge

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2014, 11:29:04 AM »
I would like to see someone provide an example of someone carrying two pistols, a rifle, and a shotgun.

 ;D Well dang, even SASS does not carry two pistols, a rifle and a shotgun!  They stage them and then move rapidly from one to the other.  If you was in a cabin and new that bad folks were a commin, you might stage a couple rifles, shotguns and have two or three revolvers primed to go.   :)

But point well taken.
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Offline St8LineLeatherSmith

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2014, 12:22:21 AM »
am I missing something here but if I recall correctly cowboys were always confronted by bandits and native tribesmen not to mention the deadly animals they were in constant contact with but they kept their guns on the chuck wagon or back at the bunkhouse when they were pushin or punchin doggies?
someone ought to get their facts straight before writing this down as a matter of fact. ;D
and the burden of proof aint on me 8)
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Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2014, 02:18:42 AM »
am I missing something here but if I recall correctly cowboys were always confronted by bandits and native tribesmen...

According to Hollywood, yes. In reality, no. The Indian Wars were practically over in Kansas & Texas by the time the cattle drives reached high tide.

Offline MJN77

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2014, 06:37:30 AM »
Quote
cowboys were always confronted by bandits and native tribesmen
???
 
Quote
someone ought to get their facts straight before writing this down as a matter of fact.
Agreed.

It seems like a lot of folks get their idea of what a cowboy was and did from Bonanza. ::) A cowboy was nothing but a (usually) young fella that worked his rear off from sun up to sun down for someone else. They were generally not "gunfighters". Their horses were not loaded down with guns and ammo. Some ranches even had rules against carrying guns. The XIT ranch in Texas had a rule that stated "No employee of the company, or of any contractor doing work for the company, is permitted to carry on or about his person or in his saddle bags, any pistol, dirk, dagger, sling shot, knuckles, bowie knife or any other similar instruments of offense or defense". They weren't allowed to drink or gamble either. A cowboy had a hard, dirty existence and Hollywood does it's best to show the opposite. To romanticize it. Hollywood doesn't show cowboys picking lice off themselves, or dancing with each other due to a lack of women.



The Hollywood "cowboy" is a creature of myth that bears little resemblance to the real deal. "Cowboy" shooting is a fantasy game based on the cowboy "myth" of the silver screen. The two gun hero that shoots straight and always gets the girl. A real cowboy was just a physical laborer that lived a rough life and usually developed knee and back problems because of the time he spent in the saddle.  If you want to know what it was like to be a cowboy, read books that were written by actual cowboys instead of Louis L'amour.

Offline ChuckBurrows

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2014, 06:40:42 AM »
According to Hollywood, yes. In reality, no. The Indian Wars were practically over in Kansas & Texas by the time the cattle drives reached high tide.

But Kansas and Texas were not the only places that had Indians and cowboys - New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Montana - all places where Indians and cowboys at times had confrontations and in the case of the SW this went on until the 1880's...
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Offline St8LineLeatherSmith

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2014, 07:51:28 AM »
But Kansas and Texas were not the only places that had Indians and cowboys - New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Montana - all places where Indians and cowboys at times had confrontations and in the case of the SW this went on until the 1880's...
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I know that "HOLLYWOOD" over dramatizes the cowboy culture and I have no doubt most folks were not strapped down with a hog leg on their side however there were folks,( Not just "Cowboys and Lawmen") who armed themselves on a daily basis. it carrying a firearm  in that era was just mainstream and it was accepted as normal for folks to carry.
and I didnt watch Bonanza I got my history from High Chapparal ;D
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Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2014, 08:45:18 AM »
The complaints mostly come from those that DO NOT shoot Cowboy Action but want an excuse to bitch. Kinda like those guys that watch a Football Game and raise sand about the way it's being played but then huff and puff just waddlin' to the ridge for another beer.
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Offline St8LineLeatherSmith

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2014, 10:32:52 AM »
The "Big" knife pretty much went away when cartridge firing weapons came in.  And they certainly would not be carried by a cowboy on a trail drive.

There are several good group photos of Texas Rangers and nearly all of them have a rifle, one pistol and a moderate sized belt knife.


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the bowie knife never went away  Folks still carry them to this day.
ya those are the guns that are in plain view.
 
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Offline Books OToole

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2014, 10:52:16 AM »
The Bowie knife didn't go away it shrunk.  In general terms they (and other similar knives) went from a blade of a foot or more down to about six inches.

My pre-Civil war Bowie has a nine + inch blade and my post-Civil war Bowie has a six inch blade.


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Offline St8LineLeatherSmith

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2014, 01:41:19 PM »
are your pre and post  civil war Bowies real relics or are they modern copys?
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2014, 01:56:30 PM »
I can't put my finger on the book right now, but IIRC there are several photos of cowboys up Montana-way (1880's - 1910 or so), wearing a sixgun in a crossdraw holster. First of all, there could be problems with your horse throwing you, a foot stuck in the stirrup, and the sixgun might save your life by shooting the horse! Rabid skunks, coyotes, etc., could also require dispatching on the range. (The mountain states sometimes have cycles of rabies in these animals. Be sure your pets are vaccinated!)

As to packing two guns, not only was that too expensive for the average cowpoke, but excepting during a rangewar, it might be prudent...if you could afford it. There might be exceptions in the decades following the CW, during the transition from cap-n-ball to cartridge, and depending on where an individual was headed. If a man had acquired a second percussion revolver, he might pack both of them. A number of officers or more affluant veterans might have acquired a smaller caliber rimfire gun, such as S&W #1's in .22 short rimfire, or a #2 in .32 short rimfire as a backup gun, or perhaps some other cheap pocket gun. Don't forget, even a small caliber projectile was respected, nearly as much as a .44 or .45. It was not a question of stopping power, but fear of sometimes fatal infection that could result from a gunshot wound of anykind. In the CW more people died from lockjaw (tetanus) than any other cause except maybe cholera or typhus. (It was worse in the Eastern battlefields because the grounds were polluted with tetanus from horses and cattle feces. But you could still get a fatal case of "lead poisoning" from the dirt and debris carried into a wound, even by a small bullet or ball!  :( Not a pleasant way to die. )


So, was it common for a cowboy to pack two guns? No, and if the outfit he worked for forbade it, none, but never say "Never!" and don't say "Always!" either.
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Offline St8LineLeatherSmith

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2014, 02:20:10 PM »
Ya I agree with the above, wearing two matched guns were not common place however some did and some had a second gun that other folks didn't know about like a derringer or a pocket revolver and some folks had a gun in every pocket It just depended on the individuals lifestyle.
but to make an absolute statement that no one ever carried 2 guns is absolute ignorance
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Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2014, 12:31:37 AM »
Texas Rangers in the 1840s would carry Colt Walker .44s.  Two on the belt, two on the saddle.  Terry's Texas Rangers out of Houston area did the same thing typically with lighter .36 Navy or .44 Army Colt revolvers...and a 12 Gauge shotgun rather than a sabre.  Armed to the teeth they were.  But then, they were arming for war and supplied by sources other than themselves.

Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2014, 12:56:53 AM »
some afterthoughts from my post above

The cowboys that rode the cattle trails from Texas following the War Between the States were mostly ex-confederate soldiers returning home or migrating west from other Southern states that had been burned over by the Yankees.   Being soldiers many of these men, particularly cavalry or officers, would often carrying more than one pistol.  Ball and cap Colt Army or Navy type pistols.  As noted, these men didn't have much money so, even after the cartridge days came, still made due with what they had.   Seems more likely that they carried what was left of what they were issued or had during the war.


Even Indian warriors took what they could get from Indian traders or off the bodies of dead white men.  This was anything from old flintlock guns to ball and cap handguns or single shot carbines (ball and cap or cartridge) or, yes, even repeaters. (which they would modify to their liking.

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2014, 04:17:49 AM »
...Being soldiers many of these men, particularly cavalry or officers, would often carrying more than one pistol...

With all due respect, you are basing that on what primary historical source? As a note, John Wesley Hardin noted about having to hold a cylinder steady on a cap 'n ball revolver as it was so loose. One would think that a gunman of his stature would have grabbed his second revolver if he had one. Truth be told, not all cowboys were armed as they worked. The areas they travelled were for the most part totally safe from Indian depredations by the mid 1870's. Weapons were often stored in a wagon.

In order to properly understand this era one needs to literally purge their mind of all Hollywood nonsense and the idea that every "waddy" (the term used for cowboys at the time) worked with a saddlebag brimming with spare revolvers.

 

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