Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
GENERAL TOPICS => Books & Movies => Topic started by: PJ Hardtack on September 18, 2017, 03:23:28 PM
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Any nominees for the most authentic western where all the guns were correct and the gunfighting wasn't pure fantasy?
Trivia question:
-in which well known western does a main character use two hands to make a pistol shot?
- in which well known western was a 10 ga shotgun featured?
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Appaloosa?
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I recall James Coburn using two hands in the scene from "The Magnificent Seven" where he misses the horse...
10 gauge... let's see. Appaloosa was supposed to be an 8 gauge, but I think it was mocked up. You got me on that one.
CC Griff
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Hawmps. Had camels it..... and Jack Elam in the best roll of his career. :o ;D
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I recall James Coburn using two hands in the scene from "The Magnificent Seven" where he misses the horse...
- Bingo! Give the man a cigar.
10 gauge... let's see. Appaloosa was supposed to be an 8 gauge, but I think it was mocked up. You got me on that one.
- Yep.
CC Griff
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Little Mattie Ross (in both True Grits) shot her Dragoon with two hands, but she is a little girl with a big Dragoon!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbkWniWSpR0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbkWniWSpR0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lb8E3qQVKY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lb8E3qQVKY)
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Correct me if I'm wrong (a distinct possibility), but didn't most folks learn to shoot a pistol one handed back in the day? I thought that was the case until after WWII.
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I've seen a WWII US Army training film where the shooters were using two hands.
Jeff Cooper is credited with promoting and developing the "modern technique" based on his "Leather Slaps" at Big Bear, California in the 1960's.
CAS is probably the stronghold of one handed shooting despite the game degenerating into "IPSC in Cowboys Boots" with highly tuned/modified 'race guns' and powder puff loads.
Ironic, as the game was founded by people who were IPSC burnouts. At least IPSC enforces power factors.
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I've seen a WWII US Army training film where the shooters were using two hands.
Jeff Cooper is credited with promoting and developing the "modern technique" based on his "Leather Slaps" at Big Bear, California in the 1960's.
CAS is probably the stronghold of one handed shooting despite the game degenerating into "IPSC in Cowboys Boots" with highly tuned/modified 'race guns' and powder puff loads.
Ironic, as the game was founded by people who were IPSC burnouts. At least IPSC enforces power factors.
Where we shoot, you can count on one hand the number shooting duelist. When I was in the military, we always shot the Browning 9mm duelist, mind you, that may have changed by now as I retired 30 years ago. At the shoot this past weekend, one of our members shot a stage in 22 seconds....just a blur. Holsters canted outward, short stroked '73. It's not my old west.
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Maybe not a 'western' technically but I've always thought that the gun play in The Wind and The Lion was well done and the guns, equipment and costumes were period correct. I would love one of those Marine uniforms. Milius at his best. The big error was that the American kidnapped was a guy not Candice Bergen and her kids. But the Reisuli did indeed return him unharmed. Beautifully filmed. Great film.
"FIRE"
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Yes, "The Wind and the Lion" - great film! Lots of great lines. Great guns, uniforms, characters, "Teddy Roosevelt" included.
The Marines and Naval Shore party must have sweated buckets in those wool uniforms at the double march.
I liked the final line where Sean Connery asks his friend -
"Have you never wanted something in life so much that you would risk everything for it?" Or words to that effect.
Then they laughed. Great philosophy.
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culpepper cattle company
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PJ, I always liked the ending scene where TR is sitting under his mounted grizzly and reads the letter that the Raisuli sent him via Ms Pedicaris which explains the title of the film. Very pertinent today.
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There only is one movie that hits all the " authenticity buttons " and that's True Grit, Jeff Bridges. Clothing, hardware, firearms and modes of speech. Note the sparks, smoke and report of the pistols and rifles: that's research. Look at Lucky Ned Peppers boot as it sits on Matties neck...".thats authenticity. Does Authenticity make a great western? No, but tie it into a great story and you have Something Special.
Early John Ford movies are good too. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre has it also.
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"Mrs. Pedicarus - you are a lot of trouble." The Raisuli
John Ford said that given a choice between going with the fact or the legend, go with the legend. His Cavalry movies did just that.
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Maybe not a 'western' technically but I've always thought that the gun play in The Wind and The Lion was well done and the guns, equipment and costumes were period correct. I would love one of those Marine uniforms. Milius at his best. The big error was that the American kidnapped was a guy not Candice Bergen and her kids. But the Reisuli did indeed return him unharmed. Beautifully filmed. Great film.
One of my favorite scenes is the attack by the Marines on the "palace"
The officer has his sabre in his right hand, and his servcie revolver in his left.
He is so good at swordplay, and so attentive to his men, he engages one Berber with his sword, and shoots another who is getting the upper hand on one of his troops.
Fencing with him would be so ... futile ... as soon as he starts to lose, he shoots you....
yhs
prof marvel
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PJ, I always liked the ending scene where TR is sitting under his mounted grizzly and reads the letter that the Raisuli sent him via Ms Pedicaris which explains the title of the film. Very pertinent today.
With Trump in the Whitehouse, you have an alpha male like TR as C in C. If he can't stare down the hapless UN, Putin and "Rocket Man", nobody can.
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Edited: removed my comment. Wrong place for that kind of discussion. Sorry gentlemen.
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I just watched "Will Penny" with Charlton Heston. It had been a while since I've watched it. I'd nominate it as a candidate for Most Authentic Western. It's hard to define what "authentic" is, but dialog, equipment and certainly guns seem right in this one. The odds of being attacked by a family of psychotic killers seems slim, but otherwise I'd say that it's authentic. Maybe not "most" authentic, but one of them.
CC Griff
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There is no such thing as an "authentic western" movie. People wouldn't spend money to go see one.
Western life was tough, full of work and mostly uneventfull.
But I did like "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence".
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There is no such thing as an "authentic western" movie. People wouldn't spend money to go see one.
Well, I guess that settles the matter ..... Next topic?
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There is no such thing as an "authentic western" movie. People wouldn't spend money to go see one.
Western life was tough, full of work and mostly uneventfull.
But I did like "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence".
That's true but we have to watch something and if an author or director can boil down the Ordinary into the Extrodinary then we watch that.
An ordinary cowboy attacked by a psychotic family on the prairies.
A 14 year old girl sets out to bring her fathers murderer to justice.
A country lawyer finds himself up against a murderous bully as the territory fights for statehood.
An aging gunman stays to help a homestead family up against a hired muderer.
The endless pursuit to find a young girl stolen by a Comanche tribe.
A bunch of misfit bandits, caught up in a Mexican revolution, decide to go out in a blaze of bullets and glory.
Is any of it true? Probably not but it is now, because someone immortalised it in celluloid. I think it's the context of The West that has given authors and directors the place to create wonderful stories and when they do it with authenticity.........it's magic.
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"The Magnificent Seven" ? Great movie, philosophical..well directed, played, quite authentic IMO.
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"The Magnificent Seven" ? Great movie, philosophical..well directed, played, quite authentic IMO.
What is Authentic?? its all stories really but for the sake of the story is a much better experience when the maker takes the trouble to ensure that things are at least time period correct
it grates my nerves to see model 92 winchesters in use twenty years before they were invented - it grates to see fellers riding carved hollywood style 1960's saddles a hundred years out of place - specially when in the overall scheme of things these details could have been correct for a very minor cost
- this is the great shame of the early westerns - after WW2 up until the spaghetti western saga - shot in some of the most magnificent scenery on this planet - the real west ? but phony guns and fake horse gear
The real west is questionable too I guess - much of the real west is covered in centre pivot corn these days .