Newbie shotgun question

[jrdudas]

If I understand correctly, any SxS shotgun is SASS approved as long as it does not have automatic ejectors; is this true. 

The reason I ask;  today I saw a SxS 20 Ga shotgun made by Boito.  I searched the forums here and found no information about Boito.  A Google search turned up some info, basically saying it was an inexpensive gun that was sold by Sears and K-Mart under it's former name.  In one review the owner says that he has had excellent performance with the Boito, another comment from a gun dealer said that the Boito guns have a lot of problems.  Upon inspection, I thought the Boito I saw had a smooth opening and closing function and a solid feel;  anyone have any comments.

Also, I have read somewhere that if you are buying a shotgun for CAS you should skip the 20Ga and buy a 12Ga instead.  Beyond the obvious power difference, what is the reason for this recommendation.

And lastly (for now) what is the significance of the "chamber size".  Does this mean that a gun with a chamber size of 2 3/4 inch cannot use 3 inch shells.  As you can see, while I know a bit about rifles and handguns I know nothing about shotguns.

Thanks in advance,  John

   

[Four-Eyed Buck]

According to the rule book, you can use 10,12,16, or 20ga guns. No ejectors or compensators, any removeable chokes must be internal, ie: don't extend beyond the end of the barrel. Shot sizes #6 up. Shotguns have had chamber sizes increased over the years.  Early 12's were 2 1/2" long, then increased to 2 3/4". Using a shell longer than the chamber would increase pressure a lot. for CAS, 2 3/4" shells are plenty in 12ga.. The name of the game is to get enough power to take knockdowns while keeping recoil down. 3" shells are overkill and at the amount we use for a match would make for a really sore shoulder at the end of a match! The reason that 12's are suggested is that there is a lot more components or ready made shells suitable for CAS for them than the other gauges. Winchester AA light trap or the newer low noise/low recoil are excelent for CAS if you don't reload your own. The Remington STS's in the lighter loadings are good too. There are a few new doubles out there if you're thinking about one of those. Made by Stoeger,Baikal(EAA), or Stevens( New 411). There are also hammered doubles( hammers are external and must be cocked by hand before firing) made by Norinco, Baikal, and just lately TTN(Colt 1878 copy). also there are a lot of old U.S. doubles available if you look, just stay away from the Damascus barrels.Personally, I have an 1898 Marlin( pump) ,a Stoeger with a 28" barrel set, and one of the new TTN's. I also load for the wife and I in 12ga. using STS and Fiocchi hulls. These are reduced to the level of the AA featherlites.Hope this helps you some.........Buck

[jrdudas]

Thanks for the info Four-Eyed Buck.  Maybe you can help me with similiar info for other approved shotguns.

Here's my question;  Today I finally found a used Winchester 97.  I inspected it closely and while I know that this model is approved by SASS, I am wondering what other "pump-action" guns are approved.  Someone has mentioned the Stevens 311, and you mentioned the Stevens 411; what about other Stevens models.  There seems to be a lot of Model 67's and a few Model 77's available.  To the uneducated eye (me) they look almost identical to the Winchester 97 and are significantly less money.  Also, what about Remington's, Mossberg's and Ithaca's.  My local guns shops have loads of these other guns and some look very similiar to the 97. 

I looked again at the Boito SxS and I do like the look and feel of the gun.  There is a small crack(about an inch long) in the stock where it meets the metal frame; is this a deal killer.  I read somewhere that if you are buying a used shotgun you should never buy one that has any stock cracks.  The price for this SxS is at what I think is the high-end of the used range for this gun and if it will need a new stock soon I will have more money in the gun than it's worth.

I have also seen a new Stoeger(spelling?) SxS coach gun that seems to be a fair price.  It however has short barrels which I am told is preferred by most CAS shooters, but I personally prefer the balance and feel of a longer barrel.  Are the Stoeger guns available in 26 & 28 inch barrels.

Thanks in advance for you help,

John
 

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[Four-Eyed Buck]

JR,  The '97's are legal. pumps have to have an exposed hammer. Only other ones I can think of are the Marlins( 1898, 17, 19, 42). However, the Marlin's are a little tricky and need a little more care. best to stick with the '97's or the chinese clones of them. The Stevens 311 and 411 are SxS's. stoeger does have 26" and 28" SxS's under the Uplander title. Same action as the coach guns, just longer barrels. Any pump gun must have an exposed hammer. some older US made SxS's are out there, just stay away from Damascus barrels..........Buck

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy,

Here's a few other things to add to Buck's excellent advice.
Used shotguns are a tough thing to figure, especially the older, original guns that are widely available.  We use out guns a lot, a whole lot, and these older guns may not be ready for the workout.  I would strongly suggest that as a new shooter, you buy a new Baikal or Stoeger, if you can not find a local pard who is selling off one of his extras.  Both of these new manufacturers offer longer barrels, just look around.  The Stevens 311 is pretty much bulletproof and is the lone exception to my used gun advice. 
I would be very cautious in buying a 97 until you've seen a few, shot a few AND have located a good gunsmith, cause they are complicated machines.

Welcome to the game and good luck.

[jrdudas]

Hi Big Hext,

You must be a mindreader; I was about to start another post about shotgun selection when I read your response.  I pretty much made up my mind that I want a Stoeger Uplander SxS.  Then today another option presented itself; I happened across a Winchester 97 in pretty good condition.  Your reply reinforced what others have said about how many individual parts the 97 has and it is my opinion that the more parts there are the more there is to break. 

So, I think I'm back to the Stoeger SxS.  I have seen two new ones and my only concern is that they seem to be quite stiff when opening.  This will probably get better with use and may turn out not to be a problem.  Is it the opinion of most in CAS that the Stoeger guns are hearty enough to withstand the rigors of CAS use? 

Since I have no experience with shotguns I went to a local gun club yesterday and they loaned me a trap gun to do some shooting with.  I have always enjoyed target shooting for as long as I can remember and I enjoyed yesterday's shooting.  The folks at the range said that I can use a SxS if I want to but that most serious trap shooters use either single shots or over/under's.  I'm a pretty fair shot with a rifle and a pistol, however my ability with a shotgun remains to be seen.  I suspect that a SxS is probably not the best choice for trap shooting but at this point my main interest is CAS and I'm not in a position to buy an expensive trap gun.

Most of the shooters I saw at the range over a two day period were shooting single shot trap guns.  The local stores in my area (central Ohio) have a lot of used single shot guns at reasonable prices, but what I've looked at are certainly not trap specific guns.  Can any of the single shot guns with external hammer be used in CAS.  And, can anyone recommend a low priced single shot that is appropriate for trap shooting.

As always, thanks in advance for your responses.

John
 

[Four-Eyed Buck]

JR, I've used my Stoeger to shot trap at our informal matches at our club. i do just as well with it as the guys with the fancy singles or o/u's. what do you think they were using in the old days before those designs came out? SxS's! As long as the stock fits you properly, there's no reason that the Stoeger wouldn't suffice. We have two of them, a 26" and a 28" and I've broken birds with both of them and my wife's stock is 3" shorter than standard! don't let the trap snobs talk you out of it..............Buck

[Irish Red O'Toole]

JR,
You're asking some really good newbie questions.  It shows you are doing your homework!   The Stoeger is a very rugged gun.  Other than giving mine over to my gunsmith for some spring lightening and smoothing, it's been a workhorse.  I also have a 97 that I use pretty frequently (OK almost all the time now...).  But, it took me 3 or 4 months of practice, away from matches, to feel confident in using it.  It's a fine gun too, but not as simpel and straight-forward as the SxS.  If you're going with the Stoeger Uplander, you've done good.