Author Topic: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA  (Read 1093 times)

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« on: April 03, 2021, 05:27:12 PM »
I know, I know... Some of you may be asking,"what does this have to do with USFA?"  Well, nothing I guess, but with USFA dead and gone forever, what, other than comparisons, do we have that relates to them?
What I am seeking here is your speculations as to the future of the Colt SAA now that Colt has been acquired by CZ Firearms.
I am of the opinion that CZ acquired Colt solely in order to bypass the import regulations of their firearms into the US.  Many of their models that do not meet import restrictions can now be manufactured and sold here in the USA, thus negating the import requirements.  Granted, they already own Dan Wesson Firearms but DWF, I would presume, was a relatively small manufacturing facility.  Now that CZ own the Colt manufacturing plant they will be able to produce their own products here in the US on a much larger scale.
So here are my thoughts... CZ will continue, as they have apparently done with DWF, to produce 1911 style firearms to the  apparent exclusion of all other DWF's offerings.  Let's face it, there will never be a cease in the demand for the 1911's.  But what about our beloved SAAs?  I figure that the high cost and low profit margin of manufacturing the SAA will ring the death knell for the Colt branded SAA under the ownership of CZ.  CZ will most likely, in my humble opinion, continue making 1911's under the Colt name but will discontinue all SAA production due to the aforesaid high costs and low profit margins.
Do I blame CZ?  Absolutely not!  Colt was a failed business when acquired by CZ...more power to them, I guess. But what will happen to the "Colt" branded line of SAA's?  Have we seen the last of them?
What do you think?
 
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline Bitterbeer

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 07:15:27 PM »
My brother lives near the  colt plant. He had purchased a new Colt Python. He had a small issue with the rear sight and ended up talking to one of the guys who designed the Python. He had a pretty cool conversation with home. Anyway, the guy didn’t seem to think things would change much but may have more money coming in. That’s no guarantee but interesting.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2021, 08:51:54 AM »

 :) Capt. Fitz  ;)

WOW!!  A really good question.  I'l take a WAG (Military acronym for  WILD ASS GUESS) at it.  Initially, nothing.  No change.  Nothing different.  they have to get their own numbers people in the door to assess just how bad they got hosed.

Let's face reality.  Colt was only kept afloat by military contracts for the AR platform.  The SAA was sort of a "hobby" and not a real profitable one at that.  Must note, Colt shut the doors on the the "Custom" shop and the number of SAA produced is only a tiny trickle.  The current SAA comic out of Colt are rely much trash.  Big Hat . . . No Cattle.  And Colt only holds a very tiny "Niche" market share.  At present, and foreseeable future, Colt cannot compete with Uberti, Pietta, Standard or anybody else.  Sell a few guns?? Sure.  Make money doing it??  No way.

I can see the continuation of "Ol' Slab Sides" but not much else.  Regardless, it's all just a big WAG (Acronym Again).

Stay Safe Out There

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2021, 06:15:00 PM »
  ;D"Big hat... no cattle";D Never heard that one before but I Like it!!!
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline Abilene

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2021, 06:49:15 PM »
Since NOBODY knows and everything is conjecture, I will just add, "Patience is a Virtue."   :)

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:37:17 AM »

Offline Dave T

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2021, 12:05:59 PM »
More guesswork here. Since the Dan Wesson 1911s are considered a notch above Colt's offerings (at least by some) I wouldn't be surprised if any future "Colt" 1911s are a bit "Dan Wessonish". Since the new roll-out (much to my surprise) of Colt DA revolvers seems to be well received, I hope CZ will continue with the Cobra, King Cobra & Python. The recent announcement of the (drum roll please) Anaconda being back is a positive sign for the double actions, particularly since the Dan Wasson DA revolver was recently discontinued.

Now to the SAA. If CZ produced a single action revolver of the caliber quality seen with the Dan Wesson 1911s, and proudly plastered Colt's name on it, I think it could compete with the Standard and if priced right all the Italian imports. It could even have the much loved by SAA fans, 4-click hammer (no importation hoops to jump through). The question is, are there enough CAS types and Ol' West gun fans who would pay to get the Colt name on their revolvers to make that profitable. I don't have an answer to that any more than I actually know what CZ is going to do. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2021, 03:29:31 PM »

 :)  Hi Dave T   ;)

You've made a couple of good points.  Couple I'd like to add too.  I don't necessarily understand the end of the Dan Wesson.  I screwed up some year ago and sold my DW V15.  Bad move.  Personal Opine:  Dan Wesson was one of the finest Double Action revolvers ever made.  I don't know if the new reproductions from Colt are or were actually profitable.

SAA:  A very good question.  Are there CAS and "Old West" gun fans to pay the premium for a Reproduction SAA with the Colt name.  CAS is shrinking.  That market is only about a third of what it once was.  Not exactly going gang busters.

Ol' Slab Sides:  Were I a business guru (knot hardly), I'd simply mark a certain number of the DW 1911s as "Colt" and only manufacture the better of the two.

BUTT:  Who Knows What Evil Lurks (Stolen famous radio show line).  We just get to hang out and see where the ball bounces.

Stay Safe Out There

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2021, 05:57:46 PM »
I'm with Abilene.  Nobody knows and guessing, while fun in these covid times, is a waste of time.

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2021, 09:08:47 PM »
It's hard to say how big the real demand  is for the SAA because Colt has not met demand in quite some time. If CZ can lower the price to about $1299 without reducing quality I think it could compete very well with Pietta and Uberti. 

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2021, 08:24:38 PM »
It's hard to say how big the real demand  is for the SAA because Colt has not met demand in quite some time. If CZ can lower the price to about $1299 without reducing quality I think it could compete very well with Pietta and Uberti.

What are you basing this theory on?

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:37:17 AM »

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2021, 01:31:06 AM »
Re: Colt not meeting demand for the SAA. I base it on how hard it has been to find a factory new Colt SAA for the past several years. For the past two or three years they have not been commonly available and when found they usually sell for over MSRP. I believe MSRP is $1799 and they usually seem to sell for around $2000 - 2200. If Colt was meeting demand I believe we would be commonly seeing SAA's available for at or below MSRP as is normal for other guns.

 

 

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2021, 08:52:12 AM »

 :)  Pigeon   ;)

Naa.  MSRP has nothing to do with the demand for SAAs.  The MSRP has to do with production.  If you manufacture "one" of something, that single sample example becomes economically untenable.  To meet a price point, you have to make a lot of something.  Colt simply hasn't been real interested in manufacturing lots of SAAs.

Even if colt got the MSRP and realized selling prices down to around 1200 Bucks, their SAA still would not be competitive in the market place.  When a punter can acquire a real nice SA for $400, then spend $200 to make it a "player" yer only into it for $600 and change.  Colt at $1200, still need the additional $200 to make it a "player" and yer into it for $1400.  THAT is economically foolhardy.

CZ may well continue the SAA.  Or not.  The current cost/method of production is Untenable.  CZ would need to be able to hit the market place with an SAA between 6 and 800 Bucks.  Currently, $800 will get you a premium Stainless Something.  No Contest.

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2021, 01:38:57 PM »
If there was demand Colt would make more.  There is not and they aren't.  About ten years ago Colt ramped up production to "meet demand" (which Colt hoped would develop) and you could find them on the shelf at Cabelas and a lot of local gun shops.  They did not sell for squat.  CZ will have to determine if building one or two hundred Single Actions a year is worth the cost and effort to basically built a few guns for advertising purposes.  E.g., COLT since 1836!

Twenty years ago Colt introduced the Cowboy which was supposed to be a less expensive Single Action.  It too flopped.  I just remembered while writing this that I have a new in the box Cowboy from the "custom" shop.  All blue with faux ivory grips.  (AKA white plastic)

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2021, 02:21:38 PM »
And, as I recall, the "Cowboy" wasn't even made by Colt.  It was a European import bearing the Colt name.  It was also a phenomenal flop.
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2021, 03:05:03 PM »
One of the many rumors was that CZ cast the Cowboy frames.  Of course it now appears after the frame cracking debacle from last year even the Colt SAA frames aren't made by Colt.

Offline Abilene

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2021, 03:05:47 PM »
Larsen at least the value of that N.I.B. Cowboy has jumped!  I guess collectors who have to have one of every model...

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2021, 03:19:04 PM »
Hope so.  Maybe it is time to get rid of it.  Lest anyone think I am a Colt basher I love Colts.  Especially the antique ones.  The last pair of new ones I ordered were these two.  I ordered them at the Cowboy Christmas in Las Vegas in 2011.  Colt had a booth at the show.  These were in .38 Special and had an industrial hard chrome finish that Colt was offering for a while.  Supposed to be basically scratch proof. They also have the extremely scarce wide spur hammers.  They don't make those anymore.  Bought them for Cowboy shooting.

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2021, 03:21:23 PM »
Wouldn't let me load two photos.  This is the other photo.

Offline Abilene

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2021, 07:05:00 PM »
I know Colt made low wide hammers for some of their mounted shooters, but I've never seen a high wide one like that.

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Educate me, Please! CZ & the future of the Colt SAA
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2021, 03:56:54 PM »
  Colt has increased SAA production within the past two or three years. Based on serial numbers since 2018 they seem to be producing about 1,000 - 2,000 SAA's per year. As per Colt's website in 2018 they were at S85000A and they are up to at least S89000A right now in 2021. I know I have seen S86xxxA, S87xxxA and S88xxxA as well so I do not think they are skipping large blocks of serial numbers.

 

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