Author Topic: 1874 Sharps  (Read 16385 times)

Offline Escopeta Jake

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
1874 Sharps
« on: May 04, 2006, 11:22:51 PM »
I've been putting off and scampen and savin for seems like forever now, and I"ve finaly decided to get it over with and go ahead and get a 1874 Sharps rifle in 45-70.
Been looking at the Pedersoli brand for while now and thought I had my mind made up for that brand but after looking at some prices I'm having a mild case of sticker shock!   :o
Mind I'm not realy put out by the prices of the Pedersoli it's just that for the differance in price of the Pedersoli vs Armi-Sport I could get an Armi-Sport and a WHOLE NUTHER RIFLE of somekind or another.
So I'm looking for some input on Armi-Sport brand Sharps rifles.
Are they good for the money, hold up well, shoot well. etc.etc....
and any input on the Billy Dixon vs. the Quigley would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks
EJ

Offline Ol Gabe

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2006, 09:28:11 AM »
Just for the sake of discussion only...
What you plan to do with the rifle should be a determining factor in which brand you buy. If you want it for hunting or will only shoot it 100-200 times a year at a CAS event and at distances under 200 yards, then the more economically priced Armi-Sport or other low end brand of rifle will suffice without the additional expense of a quality tang and front globe sight. They are available through many dealers priced around $700 for the basic rifle. Some posters have commented on various BPCR forums about firing pin problems and soft metal in the receiver area in the past year on some low end rifles and that repair work on them is questionable. I have no experience one way or the other, only commenting on what has been discussed on other forums.
Again, the lower price is enticing if you will only shoot it every so often or simply want one just cuz you've always wanted a buffalo gun, and that is great. Now, that said, if you plan on participating in Big Bore/Silhouette/Mid & Long Range events where you'll put 1,000-3,000 rounds a year through the rifle (working up a load on the range, practice time and actual competition shooting), then a more durable brand such as Pedersoli is what you want since the level of quality and manufacturer support is far superior than the other lower-priced brands. Pedersoli rifles are solid, shoot great and maintain their resale value. They have won many contests around the world and continue to be in demand as a fine rifle.  A basic Pedersoli 45-70 complete with Pedersoli Vernier/Soule tang and front globe sights will start around $900 m/l depending on the store. Check out the Pedersoli website (type in 'Davide Pedersoli' on your search engine) to see what is available and you'll get an idea of the high-end and low-end pricing and add-ons. Check the 'For Sale' or Traders forums and you'll see various Pedersoli's listed, that will give you an idea of how well they maintain their resale. You'll notice that the other brands do not.
The only other more popular rifle, but with a higher price tag, would be a Shiloh Sharps or a handmade rifle from the guys in the Southwestern US, the ones that are seen at Raton when the Big Boys get out the toys and go for the gold.
So, yes you can fill your needs with an Armi-Sport but a Pedersoli may fill them better over the long haul. Take a serious look at what your needs are and go accordingly, if you decide to go the route of competition then a high quality globe and Vernier/Soule tang sight are a necessity. Don't scrimp on sights, even a cheap rifle can shoot well with good sights and a better rifle will always shoot better with great sights. You might even find a used Pedersoli rifle complete with everything you want on a 'sale' forum at a price below that of new or near-new and in your price range.
Regarding your comment on the Billy Dixon and Quigley models, any Pedersoli rifle will do the job, these two are popular simply because of Old West history and Hollywood. Billy Dixon used a 'Big 50' they say and not a 45-70. The Quigley rifle used an "...experimental load..." as Marston said in the movie and was not a 45-70 as you seek. None the less, the design and styling of both are attractive but add a higher level of initial cost. I have a Pedersoli Billy Dixon model in 45-70 with the high-end Pedersoli sights, it is a beautiful rifle and shoots well. My Pard has a Cabela's-stamped Pedersoli with Ukranian sights from 'Parts Unknown' and it shoots better due to the sights and not the gun, they are identical except for the fancier wood and pewter nosecap. So, unless you absolutely have to have a Billy Dixon or Quigley, the lower end Pedersoli will shoot just as well as long as it has better quality sights.   
I'm sure you'll get lots of other comments and suggestions here.
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe

Offline Crooked Creek Kid

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2006, 11:24:36 AM »
I believe that the Pedersoli is a great buy and worth the extra bucks over the Armi Sport.  Mine has fired countless rounds and is extremely accurate with my BP loads.
I ain't often right but I've never been wrong.

Advertising

  • Guest
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #3 on: Today at 05:49:03 PM »

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23335
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2006, 07:31:58 PM »
I've got a Pedersoli I've had for 10 years.  The deluxe tang sight and front are not bad, but I wish I had a MTVA, I know it would tighten groups a little, but 1 1/2 moa consistantly ain't bad.

I have rebedded it and took the lock and trigger completely apart and did one of my slick up jobs.  (If you have to ask, don't do it.)  I can turn it done to about one oz and the hammer will not fall with the rubber mallet test.

I also remove the fake oil poly finish and oiled it.  Yes it was worth the extra money.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline john boy

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1488
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 12:29:45 AM »
Jake ... Ole Gabe's post is gospel truth in all respects.
... Best sight you can afford for whatever Sharps you buy
... If your going to be a casual infrequent shooter of the Sharps (100-200yds), the Armi-Sport will provide you with enjoyment
... If you plan to be a frequent long range shooter (500 yds and above), definately the Pedersoli, Shiloh, C Sharps or Meachem
Regards
SHOTS Master John Boy

WartHog ...
Brevet 1st Lt, Scout Company, Department of the Atlantic
SASS  ~  SCORRS ~ OGB with Star

Devote Convert to BPCR

Offline Grapeshot

  • Grapeshot. Cpt US Artillery
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1107
  • WARTHOG
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 11:47:53 AM »
I managed to get an Sharp's Infantry Model Armi-Sport in .45/70 from Taylors some years ago.  I had trouble right from the start.  Unlike my Navy Arms Rolling Block Buffalo Gun, the Armi-Sport 1874 does not like hard cast bullets nor jacketed bullets.  Be it Smokeless or BP this rifle will not shoot Hard, Linotype hard, bullets worth a hoot.  They go whatever way they want.  If they hit a target, it's the one three feet to the right or it'll keyhole through paper anywhere within six feet of point of aim.

I had a few conversations with Taylor's gunsmith and sent it back to them.  They couldn't really find anything wrong with it.  So I approached it from another angle.  This time I got Spence and Pat Wolf's book on reloading the .45/70 IAW the way the Arsenals did back in the 1880's.

First I got some soft, pure lead and tin.  Then made up a batch of 405 grain Hollow Based bullets and sized to .458 inch diameter.

Then I poured a 70 grain charge of GOEX FFg down a 24 inch drop tube and compressed the load so that the bullet would sit on top of the compressed powder charge.  I also used a 55 grain charge of GOEX FFg to replicate the carbine load.

What a difference that made.  Now the bullets hit point first and within the kill zone of a B-27 target at 100 yards, and that's the target I have the sights on.  The bullets were roughly 30:1 Lead to Tin.

I know I'm going to have to dedicate any soft lead loads to this rifle and keep the hard stuff for the Rolling Block and the Marlin M1895 with the micro-goove rifling.
Listen!  Do you hear that?  The roar of Cannons and the screams of the dying.  Ahh!  Music to my ears.

Offline Driftwood Johnson

  • Driftwood Johnson
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1887
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 10:58:06 AM »
Howdy

Check out Dixie Gunworks. They periodically put different models on sale. I bought my Pedersoli Silhouette model Sharps from them and saved $200 over their normal price a few years ago.
That’s bad business! How long do you think I’d stay in operation if it cost me money every time I pulled a job? If he’d pay me that much to stop robbing him, I’d stop robbing him.

Ya probably inherited every penny ya got!

Offline Pitspitr

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 4592
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
  • SASS #: 74523
  • NCOWS #: L187
  • GAF #: 147
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 09:22:12 AM »
Ol' Gabe's telling you the truth, especially about sights. I had cheap sights on my Pedersoli and was getting really frustrated. I finally broke down and got an RHO scope (after a year and a half wait) It made a HUGE! difference. I'm sure glad, 'cause I'd feel even more lik an idiot for spending as much for a scope as I did for the rifle if it didn't. Now it's shooting really well (even using factory loads) Sorry Ol' Gabe doesn't look like you're going to get the scope(inside joke).
Now, as to the sticker shock, If money is a problem you can do like I did for mine. I got a Cabela's VISA card and saved the Cabela's Bucks I earned by using it. When I had enough Cabela's bucks saved I walked into Cabela's in Kearney bought the rifle and even paid the sales tax with Cabela's Bucks. Since then I've paid for another rifle, 3 pistols, a laser range finder, a night vision rifle scope and 1/2 of a shotgun with Cabela's Bucks. I sould like an advertisement for the Cabela's VISA card don't I ;) ;D
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Benefactor Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Pedro

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 11:47:58 AM »
There are other Italian imports stamped IAR or IAB ( I don't recall exactly), but they have some major quality control. It is reported that these are "hit & miss" whether or not they will function as required. I know one of our posse members has one and the barrel rifling fades out on one side of the bore.

Joss

Hey man, these are the usual rumors and stuffs arrived by wind or REAL problems ?
I know for sure that each of the rifles produced in ITALY (and the majority of Europe states now) must pass some tests in PROOFHOUSE. This is meaning that each rifle must shoot (twice major power cartridges!)and have no kind of problems otherwise they must again the test!
Use a PASS caliber and no close with a NO GO caliber..and going on.
I know also alot of people loves talk against and use bad words regarding other competitors....but these are only rumors...or not?   

Offline fender57vneck

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 11:54:49 AM »
I have an IAB 1874 Sharps. I love it, and do not see any of those quality issues so far. Read my review on the IAB Sharps thread.

Offline fender57vneck

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 11:56:58 AM »
$773.00 out the door for some very pleasing quality.

Offline Pedro

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 12:15:19 PM »
OhMG, this is writing down the words THE END to who's saying bad quality.
A little reflection point could be (and not only in relation to IAB Sharps rifles but also to other rifles) good quality at good price?

Offline fender57vneck

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 01:30:26 PM »
IMHO, paying outlandish prices for a product, just because it is made in the USA, is no different than insuring our AMERICAN oil companies the right for “record profits”, through us, at the gas pumps.

Offline Cyrille

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 842
  • "To sing, to laugh, to dream, cock my hat, or gun"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2007, 11:06:03 AM »
Well oil prices aside; [thet's a hole 'nother issue] I have a Pedersoli "target" rifle in .45-70 and it shoots really well @50 ,to a hundred yards w/ iron sights 1 1/2 to 2" groups sometimes, on an off day, 1 3/4 @ 50 yds. When I'm shooting that wide @ the 50 mark I tend to stay there and try to narrow the group down to 1 1/2. But anyway if you want a fine shooting rifle I suggest the Pedersoli it's well worth the $1,000.00 price-tag.
CYRILLE...  R.A.T. #242
"Never apologize Mr.; it's a sign of weakness."
Capt. Nathan Brittles {John Wayne} in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon."

"A gun is  just a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool----- Think of it always in that way. A gun is as good--- and as bad--- as the man who carries it. Remember that."
                                                   Shane

Offline Pedro

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2007, 01:59:49 AM »
Right now we have
PEDERSOLI for circa $1,000 
IAB for $773.00 out the door

a new questions for you guys:

In a .45/120 sharps rifle I can use a .45/70 or .45/90 ammo ?
My ball will run right or not at all?
I will cause problems to my rifling barrel?

Crazy questions.... ???

Offline Cyrille

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 842
  • "To sing, to laugh, to dream, cock my hat, or gun"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2007, 07:50:32 AM »
No; not so crazy questions, but I will leave the answer(s) to those more knowledgeable than me.
CYRILLE...  R.A.T. #242
"Never apologize Mr.; it's a sign of weakness."
Capt. Nathan Brittles {John Wayne} in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon."

"A gun is  just a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool----- Think of it always in that way. A gun is as good--- and as bad--- as the man who carries it. Remember that."
                                                   Shane

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23335
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2007, 08:11:40 AM »
This question comes up all the time, the answer is simple, in an emergency when stuck in a buffalow wallow with hostiles all around and yer low on ammo you can borrow some 45-70 and use it, but it won't work well.  These are not straght cases like 22 RF and 38?357, they are tapered.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Pedro

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2007, 08:49:14 AM »
This is meaning is NOT recommended but you can..in extreme case for your LIFE!

A couple of shoots will damaged my rifling (or chamber)barrel or not?

Offline Ol Gabe

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2007, 10:02:44 AM »
Pedro,
Just curious, but why would you want to take the chance and ruin the rifle? If you have a 45-120 you probably got it with that large caliber in mind, as in a 'Quigley' perhaps, or else it was a good buy you couldn't pass up and now want to shoot a more shoulder and pocketbook-friendly caliber, right?
JMHO, but if I had a 45-120 and wanted to shoot a 45-70 or 90 to save on reloading and shoulder surgery, I'd rebarrel it or simply hang it on the wall and buy another. Depending on what you plan to use the rifle for you can get a less costly 45-70 or 90 to fit your individual needs. Please give us a better idea of what you have in mind and we can fill in all the gaps, this is a great place to ask.
Best regards and good shooting, but please, just not a 45-70 in a 45-120!
'Ol Gabe

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23335
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: 1874 Sharps
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2007, 10:04:56 AM »
Some say it will damage the chamber, I doubt that,  (I either need shown it or at least have it explained how and what it does before I'll believe it) but it will cause fouling and leading in front of the chamber, the bullet will expand (if soft lead) beyond it's normal size and then have to swage down again. The case will expand far more than normal and might not resize, plus one could get some blow back into the action.

Jacketed bullets would cause severe jacket fouling, a item harder to clean out than lead fouling.  So no I wouldn't do it.  If you want to shoot 45-70 get one chambered for that.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2023 CAScity.com