Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Drydock on September 30, 2009, 05:28:41 PM
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http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134598 Interesting. New side match at Winter Range.
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. ;D
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Sigh .... So I guess my restored Brazilian 7X57 Mauser 98 will just have to sit on the shelf for another competition ... which is a shame 'cause a 7X57 drops 1" in 100 yards ...
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If anyone noticed the M-1881 marksman buttons on the collar of my fatigue blouse at the muster, you have seen the awards for the match at winter range. Pigpen has ordered several pairs from me to issue as prizes.
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I saw those, but didnt know what they were. Will be nice awards!
DM
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If anyone noticed the M-1881 marksman buttons on the collar of my fatigue blouse at the muster, you have seen the awards for the match at winter range. Pigpen has ordered several pairs from me to issue as prizes.
Prizes for what?
I saw yours and thought they might be an alternate to the Marksman shipbar but then reconsidered as we don't need multiple variations of our awards.
US Scout
GAF, Commanding
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For your information, Pigpen, the director of that particular match, is a GAF member in the Department of the Platte. He has run the long range events at winter Range for several years now and is a regular participant in the opening ceremonies color guard.
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I won mine as a prizes for a match I hosted a few years ago.
Pigpen ordered these as the prizes for the long range match at Winter Range.
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I won mine as a prizes for a match I hosted a few years ago.
Pigpen ordered these as the prizes for the long range match at Winter Range.
Using the M-1881 marksman buttons as a prize for the long-range matches? I like that. Lets see how we can make that work.
US Scout
GAF, Commanding
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I have them available but it would mean charging quite a bit for the long range entry fees.
The buttons cost $20 a pair.
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Have heard rumors another group wants to imitate us cause we don't do it right, not posted for the general public though, kinda sneaky if you ask me. ::)
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Del, If this new outfit has cosies, don't give em any receipes!
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Del, If this new outfit has cosies, don't give em any receipes!
ain't new, just think they can add and do better or rather a couple of them think so, send ya a PM, you should be able to read the link. ;)
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Have heard rumors another group wants to imitate us cause we don't do it right, not posted for the general public though, kinda sneaky if you ask me. ::)
So, who is this other group? You can PM me if you don't want to post it here.
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Ditto?
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I wouldn't say it's another organization. It's just a couple of members of another organization. One thinks we aren't elitist enough. The other thinks we should exclude anyone who isn't from the North American continent. ( Come to think of it, I guess that means he thinks we aren't elitist enough either ::) ) I'd hate to drag the other organiztion's name through the mud on account of a couple of members. Some of our most faithful members are members of that organization as well. (including me) :-[
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I wouldn't say it's another organization. It's just a couple of members of another organization. One thinks we aren't elitist enough. The other thinks we should exclude anyone who isn't from the North American continent. ( Come to think of it, I guess that means he thinks we aren't elitist enough either ::) ) I'd hate to drag the other organiztion's name through the mud on account of a couple of members. Some of our most faithful members are members of that organization as well. (including me) :-[
Just goes to prove you can't please all the people all the time, and you can never please some people at any time.
The GAF mission statement clearly indicates the GAF is not elitist, though we are somewhat exclusive. We permit anyone with an interest in the late-Victorian-era military to join regardless of their nationality, gender, race, religion, etc. However, our focus is on the late-Victorian-era military, as opposed to the late-Victorian-era society, so those who may be interested in non-military related subjects of the last half of the 19th century certainly would not find much of interest in the GAF. Consequently, our membership includes not only shooters, but reenactors, living historians, history enthusiasts, NSSA skirmishers, and others.
When the GAF was created our focus was exclusively on the US Army in the Indian Wars following the Civil War. We did not do the US Navy, Marines or Revenue Service. We did not do the Spanish-American War. We did not consider the other North American militaries, let alone the militaries of more distant countries. When we started to expand in these directions there was some resistance by a few early members who only wanted the GAF to concentrate on the Indian Wars from 1866-1900.
That initial focus, of course, has changed considerably to include all militaries of the late Victorian-era, though the majority of our members still prefer the Indian Wars from 1866-1900. On the other hand, we still allow CAS-style lever action rifles to be used in our matches and we do not require anyone to wear a uniform to compete.
US Scout
GAF, Commanding
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Below is the response I posted on this topic.
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Quote from: ...on October 18, 2009, 09:30:55 PM
Above is a copy of the mission statement for GAF........Grand Army of the Frontier. Somewhere along the line they have added a Wild Bunch Match as a side match....the foreign guns and the WB match was the last straw for me and I have asked Pitsptr to remove my name from the GAF roster.
I'm personally tired of the Nagants, Finns and what ever else has been used in the GAF matches....now before this gets to be a mud slinging post I want to say that this my personal view and I hope that those involved with GAF in its present form continue to enjoy it.
What I propose is a new organization that we could call the Grand Army of the North America Frontier, or GANAF, if you will. This would include any military firearms used in American and Canadian military encounters & battles prior to 1900. With principles and by-laws based on NCOWS. This could also include mounted cavalry units as well for those of us that have horses and tack.
I'm just throwing this out there to see what kind of reaction I get to this proposal.
Thanking you in advance for your consideration.
End quote
The Grand Army of the Frontier (GAF) focuses on the late Victorian era military, roughly defined as 1860-1900. As you know, we got our start by SASS and NCOWS members who liked to dress in a uniform instead of as a cowboy, lawman, outlaw, etc. However, if NCOWS (or SASS) wants to include a "military" category I'm all for it. The more uniforms the better as we should not forget the soldier who protected our citizens.
Our Grand Musters (matches) reflects this timeframe both in firearms and clothing. If you were to attend a Grand Muster you would note a preponderance of US military issue trapdoors, Spencers, Krags, and a few Sharps or Rolling Blocks in our main matches. You would see a Martini-Henry. You would also see a whole lot of pistol caliber lever actions. Almost all the pistols would be US SA or DA revolvers.
Overall there is a scarcity of non-US and non-British firearms at our matches. Most of the firearms that you so strenously object to are used by our members in Europe because these are more readily available over there and those members, for obvious reasons, want to honor the militaries of their own countries. However, if any of those GAF members were to attend a Grand Muster they would be allowed to shoot those firearms, and we would encourage them to do so as it would allow our members to see these firearms outside of a museum or book.
Secondly, as you point out, the so-call "Wild Bunch" stages are part of a SIDE MATCH and is only included at the discretion of the match director. These stages are based on General Pershing's expedition into Mexico in 1916 - not the movie - and are very popular with our shooters, but they are not part of the main match. At the 2009 Grand Muster many of those who participated in this side-match were attired in period-correct uniforms and equipment for the firearms they were shooting. I might add that some of the those who were active in participating in our first attempts at the "Wild Bunch" stages at an early Grand Muster are NCOWS members and even posters in this thread. None voiced any disapproval.
Thirdly, while our policies do allow the so-called Hollywood uniforms, the vast majority of our members dress in period-correct recreations of field and dress uniforms based on printed regulations, existing samples, photographs and contemporary descriptions. At the 2009 Grand Muster I did not see a single "Hollywood" uniform on the line or at the banquet. Many members have done extensive research into their uniforms, and great effort into putting it together. It has become increasingly difficult over the last few years to select the best uniforms worn at our Grand Musters.
Most of our uniformed competitors, I am sure and should they wish to do so, could easily fit into the NCOWS Originals without too much difficulty. Only those competitors who shoot in our Battle Rifle categories, attired in a period-correct uniform matched to the rifle being used, are eligible for our Brigade Champion Award. The winner of the Brigade Champion Award must place in both their shooting category and in the uniform competition.
The GAF does not require anyone to acquire or wear a uniform, or even to own or shoot a period military issue firearm. Consequently, we also have a "Scout" category which allows those without a uniform or period military issue rifle to shoot in our matches. However, most of our "Scouts" eventually get that uniform and rifle after they have seen how much fun it is.
Lastly, no GAF member is removed from our roster except for cause, though you may remove yourself from active status. I invite all of you to attend the 2010 Grand Muster to see how the GAF has grown over the last 8 years.
Bill Johnson
aka US Scout
Brigadier General
Commanding
Grand Army of the Frontier
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Have heard rumors another group wants to imitate us cause we don't do it right, not posted for the general public though, kinda sneaky if you ask me. ::)
SOOOO, he's at it again or maybe I should say STILL!!!! ;) ;D
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I assume this is in the NCOWs members area?
Cant find it anywhere, even with a search.
DM
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Yes, you have to be an NCOWS member to access that forum.
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I like the way we do things. No need to change anything. If someone has their panties in a was about something they can shoot with another organization.
Capt Mack
"Remember the Alamo!"
"Remember Goliad!"
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Whew...!
Thanks, Gen'l. I was beginning to think my "non-North American" military character might not be allowed in Tejas!
(well, maybe "quasi-military"? Paramilitary? Wait and see)
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Guns, We have so many ways down here in Texas, you're bound to like one of them! Wearing pants is strongly encouraged!
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I hear pants are optional if its snowing tho. ;)
DM
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Pants are indeed optional as you know, but as to how you'ld look in a kilt . . . :-X
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I assume this is in the NCOWs members area?
Cant find it anywhere, even with a search.
DM
Dalton,
Yep, like most organizations you have your WHINERS. I figure their about maybe, 1% of the organizations. Hopefully if we let them be, they will go away. ;) ;)
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I hear pants are optional if its snowing tho. ;)
DM
You didn't see me out tending the fire in my red plaid flannel nightshirt early Sat morning. ;D
With all the different types of shooting organizations around surley one can either find one that suits or form a group that does. If you don't like folks to shoot rifles that are on very solid rests perhaps it's not a good idea to go to a bench rest match. ::)
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Col. Drydock, I catch a cold real easy, so I always wear underwear under my Clan Robertson tartan kilt.
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NO PANTS???
Well, it IS Texas, so there's no tellin'
I seen a bunch a guys singin' oncet, one was wearin' chaps wi' no britches. Somethin' about Y M C A
Izzat the kinda Texicans you was talkin' about?
(Yeah, I wuz in Jimmy Buffet town, Key West, and BOY, did I walk into the wrong club!!!)
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Guns, That's what happens when you wind up in the wrong part of town. Key West is a wierd place to be in anyway.