Author Topic: Why I like NCOWS  (Read 131152 times)

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2005, 05:56:05 PM »
I am currently doing some research on this, the All You Can Eat Chinese Buffet serving Americanized versions of Chinese Food dates to the California Gold Rush.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Major Matt Lewis

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2005, 06:38:33 PM »
Del,

You will score some BIG Points with me if you can make a`decent batch of Sesame Chicken..... ;D
Major Matt Lewis
Grand Army of the Frontier * SASS Life * NCOWS * Powder Creek Cowboys * Free State Ranges * RO II * NRA Life * Man on the Edge

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2005, 07:30:53 PM »
That sounds like a Gopher Grease dish, will consider it. ;D  Benes Seed is the more common period term for sesame seed. ;D
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2005, 07:47:01 PM »
Joss I wish I had the time and could afford to come to one of your shoots with the cook camp and Gopher Grease.   :o :o  You might forget to go shoot. ;D
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Lars

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2005, 08:10:18 PM »
Lets see, the new NCOWS match attendee 10-point laundary list:

1) Meet old friends and make new ones.

2) Eat.

3) Ogle new outfits, new or more complete camps.

4) Eat.

5) See what late 1800s characters are new this year.

6) Eat.

7) See if Rattlesnake Jack has a double.

8) Eat.

9) IF time permits, shoot a few stages.

10) Write note to self to not eat for the first week at home.

Lars

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #45 on: Today at 08:44:01 AM »

Offline Major Matt Lewis

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2005, 08:13:54 PM »
Joss,

Now I don't know if you know this, but at the Muster, we awarded best encampments and best outfits based on a criteria that would impress the most stringent authentisist.  (I am not sure that's a real word, but you get my point).  We had a good MANY folks at level 3.  I may have even been at level 2.   ;)

Yes, NCOWS is more than shooting, but I don't like anybody telling me what rifle I can use, and always remember, Shooting is the glue that binds this book together.  The S is for Shootists....There are no R (Reenactor) or H (Historian) in the name.  Now we are as a group greatly benefited by having both the R's and the H's in and among us.  
Major Matt Lewis
Grand Army of the Frontier * SASS Life * NCOWS * Powder Creek Cowboys * Free State Ranges * RO II * NRA Life * Man on the Edge

Offline Chantilly

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2005, 08:56:28 PM »
I am begining to think that any item-specific "costume" criteria that NCOWS might have might best be tossed in favor of having the individual explain the relevance of each item in his/her impression. I, for one, was wearing three items of clothing that are very specific to my persona as an immigrant assayer ("fiddlers" cap, bussarong shirt, rough-out gloves), but, not something that many (any?) NCOWS members would have been aware of. There are many more such items that I may add and many, many more personas that can be developed. Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.

Lars

Lars , you are so right.  The costume form that was used at the GAF Muster was a "first try" and it is already undergoing some changes to account for the special items carried or worn by shooters based on persona.  Almost everyone that registered for the civilian men's contest had the "basics".  I think (but do not know for sure) that the women have more difficulty with shooting attire because 1) dresses are more difficult to shoot in and with the crawling, etc. in the Muster,and even without the crawling, they are, therefore, less desirable attire, (although, personally, I love the dresses of the period and never shoot in anything but dresses but it does take some getting used to - especially on stairs!)  2) there are fewer women involved in NCOWS that also shot the Muster, and perhaps 3) there are fewer women shooting in NCOWS (I don't know?).  The women shooting the GAF Muster did an awesome job, but let's face it, wearing a corset for shooting is difficult.  Been there, done that.  Women have a more difficult job of balancing the period clothing with the desire to do well shooting.  In addition, most of the information I have seen regarding NCOWS (MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE REGARDING NCOWS IS STRESSED HERE) is addressed to the man - ie. the three levels of authenticity do not mention women's attire at all.  Although, I must say, women usually do very well with banquet attire!

The basics list is really very helpful for people starting to put together their own period attire.  During the contest, a lot of additional information was written on the bottom of the form based on the special items and knowledge provided by shooters about their special attire.  The special items worn and carried by folks was what made the difference in the judging.  You and Books and Gripmaker (and others) exceeded expectations for attire and carried items that were based upon your chosen personas.  Very impressive, indeed!  I'd like to see 1st, 2nd and 3rd awards provided for these contests in the future; especially since NCOWS emphasizes both period attire and shooting.  I believe I am correct in stating that some people spend more time and effort on their attire than on their shooting skills because that is their primary interest with shooting secondary (or perhaps equal).  These efforts should be recognized and acknowledged if this is important to an organization.  

By the way - the balance of period attire and shooting - and the reality that there is a continuum in that balance based on peronal and posse desire -along with the great people, is what I find attractive about NCOWS.  Although I must admit, I would have had more difficulty joining the shooting ranks with only small and somewhat distant targets.  When I started shooting five years ago, I had never handled any gun of any kind....ever.  The larger, closer targets of SASS were not nearly as scarey.  While smaller, farther targets are more attractive to seasoned shooters (regardless of their speed), they are intimidating to the new or inexperienced shooter.  A balance might be nice.
A six-shooter makes men and women equal.  - Agnes Morley Cleaveland (1818-1889)

I should like a little fun now and then.  Life is altogether too sober.  - Elizabeth Blackwell (1821-1910)

Offline Wymore Wrangler

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2005, 09:22:16 PM »
Joss, from the Bylaws, under goals of the organization:

    ORGANIZATIONAL GOALS

The National Congress of Old West Shootists was established to promote the sport of Western Action Shooting and to preserve the heritage of the Old West, 1866-1899.

Anyone that thinks that the organization wasn't formed around shooting first should have some discussions with the organizations founders...

Chantilly, NCOWS has a very large percentage of women shooters, in fact after attending a few NCOWS matches, I was very surprised by the Kansas SASS clubs that had such few women shooters.... ;D
Fast horses for sale, Discount for newly minted gold coins, no questions asked....

Offline Chantilly

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2005, 09:30:09 PM »
[Chantilly, NCOWS has a very large percentage of women shooters, in fact after attending a few NCOWS matches, I was very surprised by the Kansas SASS clubs that had such few women shooters.... ;D
[/quote]

EXCELLENT!  Great news....thanks!!  I wish there were more women shooters in Kansas!
A six-shooter makes men and women equal.  - Agnes Morley Cleaveland (1818-1889)

I should like a little fun now and then.  Life is altogether too sober.  - Elizabeth Blackwell (1821-1910)

Offline Major Matt Lewis

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2005, 09:38:32 PM »
Chantilly,

I know that Scout is working on some enhancements for the Military Uniform Catagories.  May prove productive to work with him off line to get the persona and clothing aspects down.  For our first shot at a REAL outfit judging contest we did well I think.  We learn from the Musters too.

And Chantilly,

You are getting your wish.  We ordered Tina a pair of pistols for Christmas.
Major Matt Lewis
Grand Army of the Frontier * SASS Life * NCOWS * Powder Creek Cowboys * Free State Ranges * RO II * NRA Life * Man on the Edge

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #50 on: Today at 08:44:01 AM »

Offline Chantilly

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2005, 09:47:37 PM »
You are getting your wish.  We ordered Tina a pair of pistols for Christmas.

You know Major...that comes in threes for women....Diamonds, dresses AND guns!
A six-shooter makes men and women equal.  - Agnes Morley Cleaveland (1818-1889)

I should like a little fun now and then.  Life is altogether too sober.  - Elizabeth Blackwell (1821-1910)

Offline Major Matt Lewis

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2005, 09:58:34 PM »
She already has the diamonds and dresses. ;D
Major Matt Lewis
Grand Army of the Frontier * SASS Life * NCOWS * Powder Creek Cowboys * Free State Ranges * RO II * NRA Life * Man on the Edge

Offline Marshal'ette Halloway

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2005, 11:28:09 PM »
I like the laid back atmosphere.
The shooters were laid back.. the cooks were laid back. the non shooters were really laid back (that'd be me) and the people as a group and indivually are outstanding. Warm family feeling the whole weekend.

 But the best part I like is when Chantilly gave me the job of "checking fly's."..
 Nope I didn't say checking FOR fly's..I said "fly checking".

I was in fact supposed to be helping her do the costume judging. Well, I will tell you this.. this woman has it all under control. She is on top of every little detail and is smiling and laughing all the while she is going around with her garmet check list. And she still finds time to compete and shoot!
 She really didn't need me..and it was a good thing.  I didn't know squat from sic-um...so I wasn't very much help.
 But I did earn my place as "Official Fly Checker". :D
SASS #56524, BCVC #26



The smell of heaven is Fresh Baked Bread and Gun Powder.

Offline US Scout

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2005, 05:24:11 AM »
But the best part I like is when Chantilly gave me the job of "checking fly's."..
 Nope I didn't say checking FOR fly's..I said "fly checking".
... But I did earn my place as "Official Fly Checker". :D


Ah, so THAT is what you were doing!   :o ;D


Offline US Scout

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2005, 05:40:07 AM »
There is more to NCOWS than just shooting and that is one reason why I prefer NCOWS to SASS or other outfits.  Regardless of where the emphasis is made in the by-laws, the stress on "authenticity" and history is a definite distinction, and the main reason I find NCOWS more interesting.

I was a living historian and reeactor for about 20 years prior to getting involved in CAS.  Consequently, I'm heavily focused on the "authenticity" aspect. Comparing both SASS and NCOWS, I was more impressed with NCOWS' stress on authentic clothing, firearms, etc.  However, being back East there weren't any NCOWS posses to join and shoot with, so I joined SASS.  Not long afterward, I came across an issue of the Shootist and liked what I saw, so sent my membership in to NCOWS.

My only NCOWS shoots have been the two GAF Musters, but I have to say they are two of the very best shoots I've attended.  While I wore a uniform (it was a GAF event after all), I was very impressed with the outfits worn by the "civilian" participants.  I also like the 10 sec penalty for missing.  If it were a real gunfight and you missed too many times, the penalty would be a lot greater, so hitting the modern day shooter with a 10 sec penalty seems fair enough. 

As Chantilly and Maj Matt Lewis have pointed out, the "attire" competition (I associate "costumes" with Halloween so dislike the word) was very competitive.  Almost all had the basics nailed, and most had progressed well beyond that.  I need to make a much more detailed check list for next year's competition, which I expect will be even tougher than this year.

Chantilly is also being too modest - the dress she wore on Sunday was very impressive and could have easily won an award had she been in competition (we judges took ourselves out of the competition).

Lars

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2005, 09:32:00 AM »
As one studies the history of the period, the cowboy, lawman or gufighter made up at most 5% of the working population, if that.

At an NCOWS shoot, you see far more towns people, trades people or other occupations picked as a basis for a persona, and I feel safe in predicting that as our membership grows, the proportion of other trades to cowboys, etc. represented will probably approach the historical ratio.
That is what makes NCOWS for me.
RCJ

My reading of USA Old West history, much of it NOT written by Americans or in English, the cowboys figure in it very little, if at all. See my quick list (in another thread) of occupations common in mid-late 1800s. However, it can be claimed that I am baised cause I almost never watched/watch TV and I only ever watched one John Wayne movie (fortunately there was a very impressive redhead Irish lady actor, O'Hara something or other, so the time was not totally wasted).

I feel very "out of place" at big SASS matches because of the extreme "Hollywood" flavor. So far, the NCOWS shoot, especially this GAF Muster, leave me feeling very much "at home".

Re "costume contest" criteria, I agree with Chantilly that it is easy to acheive the basics. How much beyond that one manages to go is where it gets more interesting, both for the individual and for the onlookers.

Chantilly's comments about women's period correct clothes in NCOWS and shooting while wearing them very much repeat what I hear from Stina. I will only add here that Stina and I have found many photos of women on hunting, skiing, hiking, and horseback trips in the late 1800s early 1900s and they were nearly all wearing some sort of skirt and riding sidesaddle. At this point we do not know what, if any, changes to clothing were made to facillitate this. We do think it safe to conclude that some changes were made and that none of these women were wearing "dress up" clothes.

Chantilly's "salute to the military" dress on Sunday WAS impressive!!

Lars

Offline O.T. Buchannan

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2005, 04:53:04 PM »
I like to study history, to try to find out how things REALLY were 'back in the day'.  I want to know what kind of timepiece someone of the social/financial status of my persona would have carried, and then I want to carry one just like it...an original, if possible (which I do).  I want to find out what kind of clothing they used, and I want to duplicate it.  I want to study the boots they wore, and then step into boots JUST LIKE THEIRS, and walk the range and try to put my hands on history as much as we are able to do in this modern time and day.

I want to shoot the exact same type of firearms they shot, with the same type of propellant, and I want to know the capabilities and limitations of those firearms with the original type propellants and loads.  Mostly, I want to attend events with people who are of a like mind....I want to share with them what I have learned, and I want to LEARN FROM THEM as well.

To me, this is what NCOWS is all about....
"If the grass is greener on the other side, water your OWN lawn."

Offline Will Ketchum

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2005, 11:15:09 AM »
I like to study history, to try to find out how things REALLY were 'back in the day'.  I want to know what kind of timepiece someone of the social/financial status of my persona would have carried, and then I want to carry one just like it...an original, if possible (which I do).  I want to find out what kind of clothing they used, and I want to duplicate it.  I want to study the boots they wore, and then step into boots JUST LIKE THEIRS, and walk the range and try to put my hands on history as much as we are able to do in this modern time and day.

I want to shoot the exact same type of firearms they shot, with the same type of propellant, and I want to know the capabilities and limitations of those firearms with the original type propellants and loads.  Mostly, I want to attend events with people who are of a like mind....I want to share with them what I have learned, and I want to LEARN FROM THEM as well.

To me, this is what NCOWS is all about....
 

OT, you nailed it right on the head.  I didn't really get it until I read one of your columns and the light went on. :-[ ;D

That is why I don't shoot my Ruger Vaqueros in NCOWS matches and I only shoot black powder (as much as I hate the stuff) ;) I have so many problem with my feet that I do make a concession with my foot wear just like I do when I take my modern medicines.  I can't go back to the 19th Century but I can experience some of what they did with the limitations that I won't jeopardize my health.

This is what is great about NCOWS the degree of authenticity is a personal choice.  After meeting the minimum requirements it is up to the individual just how far they go.

Will Ketchum
Will Ketchum's Rules of W&CAS: 1 Be Safe. 2 Have Fun. 3  Look Good Doin It!
F&AM, NRA Endowment Life, SASS Life 4222, NCOWS Life 133.  USMC for ever.
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Offline Chantilly

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2005, 01:47:19 PM »
Chantilly's comments about women's period correct clothes in NCOWS and shooting while wearing them very much repeat what I hear from Stina. I will only add here that Stina and I have found many photos of women on hunting, skiing, hiking, and horseback trips in the late 1800s early 1900s and they were nearly all wearing some sort of skirt and riding sidesaddle. At this point we do not know what, if any, changes to clothing were made to facillitate this. We do think it safe to conclude that some changes were made and that none of these women were wearing "dress up" clothes.

Lars

Lars -

Women's clothing changed dramatically during the late 1800's.  By the 1890's, gone were the big bustles of the 1880's.  The 1890's saw a little less yardage to the skirts (although still a great deal of yardage compared to today!), no bustles, and split skirts for outdoor activities were acceptable.  Lou Graham's wonderful hunting outfit worn at the banquet was propor attire during the 1890's lending a great deal more mobility to women engaged in outdoor activities.  Women's sleeves ballooned during the 1890's which are a challenge for shooting - women have to be a little more careful with the rifle and shotgun when shooting with those huge sleeves!  Corsets were still the norm, and if you get a good fitting corset, they are comfortable when not tightly laced.  (The medical problems caused by tightly laced corsets is interesting reading if Stina is interested.)  Regardless, corsets allow far less mobility (bendability) then modern woman are used to adding to the challenge of shooting in a corset today.  Shooting in a corset can and is done by some women; you learn to adjust just like shooting in the skirts, petticoats and bustles. 

A six-shooter makes men and women equal.  - Agnes Morley Cleaveland (1818-1889)

I should like a little fun now and then.  Life is altogether too sober.  - Elizabeth Blackwell (1821-1910)

Offline Stina

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Re: Why I like NCOWS
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2005, 04:41:33 PM »
Chantilly--

I'd be very much interested in a fuller description of Lou Graham's hunting outfit!

And yes, I've read a thing or two about the detrimental effects of 'tight-lacing', and certainly don't intend to let myself in for any of the medical issues involved, tho' I think I'd have had to start wearing corsets a good many years ago to get the full effect.

Luckily, I know several people who can help me make and fit a corset properly, so I hope I'll still be able to move in it when I get it!

Stina

 

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