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CAS TOPICS => NCOWS => Topic started by: Major Matt Lewis on November 01, 2005, 09:36:46 PM

Title: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 01, 2005, 09:36:46 PM
I read one of Joss's post about how NCOWS can accomodate our little niches and that got me thinking.  We are all quick to point out what we don't like, but I would like to start this thread with the focus of what we do like about NCOWS:

Me personally, I like the atmosphere of NCOWS.  Every NCOWS shoot that I have been to had a campfire going.  There is something about an open fire that really does it for me.  I like the primitive camping aspect too.  I will never take it to the level of Mike Tatham or Dr. Bob, but there is something ultra relaxing and casual about the intimacy created around a period campsite.  I also like the focus on history.

I think you all realize, I love the competitive shooting aspect of the game, but these are some of the other itches that NCOWS scratches for me.  What does it do for you? 
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 01, 2005, 10:21:31 PM
WOW,

I was hoping that folks had something nice to say tonight....
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Wymore Wrangler on November 01, 2005, 10:39:13 PM
Major Matt, you converted, I'll take a campfire with Delmonico's cooking over a fancy overpriced dinner any day.  Throw in the nices folks this side of anywhere, and I don't think you can get any better than NCOWS.... ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on November 02, 2005, 02:26:24 AM
Maj. Matt & all,

I like NCOWS because it encomapsses a wide range of activities and interests.  I enjoy the re-enacting as well as the shooting.  I enjoy the company of my longtime pards of the KVC, as well as my new pards in NCOWS.  I enjoy combining historical research and developing a "persona" to go with my alais and CAS shooting.  I enjoy sharing my love of material culture in my camp, clothing & knowledge.

I appreciate all the help, so readily offered by members in getting started in CAS.  My hat is off the fine members of NCOWS who are always willing to share their knowledge with the new guy or gal.  Thanks for making mine a great experience.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: 44caliberkid on November 02, 2005, 07:59:10 AM
I like NCOWS because I like historic re-enacting combined with throwing lead at real targets.  I liked Buckskinners because we shot real bullets at real targets.  Did'nt like Civil War re-enactments so well because of shootin' blanks, however, I did like learning about the period and the history.  So NCOWS gives us the best of both worlds, military and civilian.  Going to the GAF muster really got me excited about the military re-enacting, so I'm brainstorming my persona this winter.  I was an E-4 when I got out of the Army in 1978, we have a relative who was an enlisted man in the civil war, named Isaiah Coffee, so I'm thinkin', Corporal Coffee, and I'm going to make him an artillery man, because I like the red stripes and big black powder booms!
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 02, 2005, 08:04:48 AM
I like NCOWS because it encomapsses a wide range of activities and interests. I enjoy combining historical research and developing a "persona" to go with my alais and CAS shooting.

I appreciate all the help, so readily offered by members in getting started in CAS.  My hat is off the fine members of NCOWS who are always willing to share their knowledge with the new guy or gal.  Thanks for making mine a great experience.

Dr. Bob already said most all that I would have written. So, I just quote some of what he wrote.

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Will Ketchum on November 02, 2005, 08:05:56 AM
The aspect of NCOWS I enjoy the most is the opportunity to experience in a small way what our 19th Century forefathers did and to do it with like minded people.

Also,as already stated it is a membership ran organization so every members input is important.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Quick Fire on November 02, 2005, 08:46:58 AM
I too like the history aspect of NCOWS. but I also enjoy the laid back atmosphere. Most NCOWS shooters place the competion second to the comraderie and to the history aspect.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Guage Rod on November 02, 2005, 10:19:51 AM
What Do I Like about NCOWS?," Let me count the ways".

I like the Folks who are so willing to help with ammo, loan you a gun, help with repairs, or Malfunctions, who, want to know more about you than just the caliber of you gun.

It is a safe Hobby, where like minded people come to share in a common sport and to meet nice folks. 

I have been to a SASS shoot and there seems to be a large competive emphassis, and this can detract from the fun and friendly atmoshpher.  This is not to say there are not nice folks shooting in other CAS organizations, there are great folks everywhere, and I have helped and been helped by folks everywhere I shoot.   

I like NCOWS cause the clubs have kind of let us develop our own style of shooting, and will embrace most any one who wants to spin their wheel gun at the Range.  Some of the Larger meets are a little more structured and that is to be expected.  I just hope and pray that we can all be at a place where we chose safety and having fun over all else. 

I Think that NCOWS will appeal to folks because of the folks that they shoot with and who are willing to share their knowledge about the sport with out fear of giving up an advantage. 

After all most of Us are Going to shoot about as good as the time we are willing to commit to practice and I already know that I practice and shoot at least 20% misses so that I can not be confussed with a "G'er" oops!, I almost said the G word.

Vaya Con Dios 
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Kayleen on November 02, 2005, 02:11:06 PM
Why do I like NCOWS?
  Well first it would be the folks that attend NCOWS shoots are some of the greatest friends there are. They not only help out with loaning you guns when something goes wrong with yours but they take and interest in your family also.
  Second, where else can I step back in time and love the clothing and history part of a sport.
  Third, we see families do this sport. What is a better feeling than to see a daughter or son shooting and at times winning. It is neat to watch the parent taking a certain amount of pride in their child's accomplishment.
  I like the diversity of targets, large and close and small and far away. But for those that aren't all to interested in Cowboy shooting there are buffalo hunts, long range, silhouette(sp)  shoots and these are great fun also.
  Campfires, period correct camps, folks that really care about what really did take place back in the 1800's, hearing period correct instruments being played, listening to guys talk about what is correct for uniforms(GAF). I love it.
  I had the privelege of listening to U.S. Scout and others talk about history this past weekend and felt like I was doing research. What a knowledge these guys have. Thank you for letting me listen.
  Kayleen
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: US Scout on November 02, 2005, 03:42:28 PM
  Campfires, period correct camps, folks that really care about what really did take place back in the 1800's, hearing period correct instruments being played, listening to guys talk about what is correct for uniforms(GAF). I love it.
  I had the privelege of listening to U.S. Scout and others talk about history this past weekend and felt like I was doing research. What a knowledge these guys have. Thank you for letting me listen.
  Kayleen


Kayleen,

I'm glad you enjoyed your experience at the Muster.  As you might have gathered, we in the GAF have a passion for the "old" military, and most of of us work hard to to it right and honor those who have gone before us.  I'm pleased that you took the opportunity to listen rather then get bored and wander off or try to change the subject. 

US Scout
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 02, 2005, 06:12:13 PM
I like it cause the folks really read what I write and tell me they enjoy it. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 02, 2005, 06:57:18 PM
That's what I've been feared of. ;D  I think they ate it this weekend to be nice also. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on November 02, 2005, 07:51:34 PM
Joss,

I ate the meals that Delmonico and Gopher Grease fixed at the GAF Muster and they were MOST EXCELLENT!!!!

These guys know how to make a dutch oven meal with seeming ease. [I know that a huge amount of work went into each meal and really appreciate the fine results!]

Well done!!! ;D ::) ;D ::) ;D

Del,

Thanks for the great meals!  I ate it 'cause it was delicious. Good thing that I got a lot of exercise whith the quantity that I ate.  I'll eat your cooking every chance I get. ::)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 02, 2005, 07:54:09 PM
There were two Joss, one for folks with pants and one for folks with skirts. I only now and then saw a line, maybe cause Major Lewis had such great organization, maybe cause  everyone was so polite, maybe cause Del's food had a different effect, maybe cause .....................

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 02, 2005, 08:03:47 PM
Actually Lars,

There were 4.  There is a permenant outhouse on the range, but I figured that we would add a couple more...
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on November 02, 2005, 08:09:38 PM
Actualy, there are two permanent outhouses, one with a buck on the door and one with a doe.  I even used it when the porta john was already occupied. ;D  Been camping there since the lat 1970's so I knew where to look!
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Derby Younger on November 02, 2005, 09:02:41 PM
There were Johns? Won't need that entrenching tool any more.

Matt, in answer to your question, everything that we saw at the Muster.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 02, 2005, 09:13:50 PM
AAA  HA!! Ones for the ""insiders" and ones for the newbies. A well structured facility!!

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Montana Slim on November 02, 2005, 09:41:38 PM
For me, it's due to NCOWS being more historically-based in our events/competitions, rather than fiction/fantasy-based.

1) Participants are clothed, armed, and accoutrered with pre-1900 "stuff". Including the "other" real firearms (DAs) of the west.
2) Higher percentage of black powder shooters.
3) I tend to see, IMO,"Better" - (realistic) sized, arranged, distance of targets. Generally not lined up in a nice, even row at the standard distance seen elsewhere.
4) More realistic "miss" penalty of 10 sec. - I just don't see the glamor of shooting a stage in 15 secs, but missing 1/3 of the targets? How would this person have fared in a real life gunfight?

Well, to me NCOWS comes closer to the mark of what the game means to me. That's my story & I'm sticking to it.

Slim
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Old Top on November 03, 2005, 02:24:03 AM
If the rest rooms were marked for skirts and for pants, which one did Rattlesnake Jack Use?   ;D ;D ;D


Old Top
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Ottawa Creek Bill on November 03, 2005, 07:18:21 AM
History....research....history.....research..............shooting!  Historical fact, not fiction, not the woulda coulda shoulda idiom that you see in other shooting venues.

OCB
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 03, 2005, 08:56:47 AM
If the rest rooms were marked for skirts and for pants, which one did Rattlesnake Jack Use?   ;D ;D ;D
Old Top

Good question! One day he wore a short skirt (from something they "kilt"), one day long pants made of same fabric. I for one, never saw him go to the "blue rooms", but, since I was generally not watching and I was ignorant of the period correct "little houses", I am probably lacking critical informations.

FWIW, those "little houses" in Sweden have hearts cut in the doors. Why do ones in Amerika have cresent moons? Are the "deers on the doors" a Kansas touch? Since there must be a documented, historical reason, thought I would ask.

Thanks,
Lars

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 03, 2005, 09:09:23 AM
Lars,

You got me on the cresent moon, but the Buck is to anotate Male and the Doe is to anotate Female.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Grizzle Bear on November 03, 2005, 09:10:56 AM
Old Top said:

"If the rest rooms were marked for skirts and for pants, which one did Rattlesnake Jack Use?"

Any damned one he wanted!

Lars:

Read something one time that said outhouses were marked with a circle (for the sun) for men, and the crescent (for the moon) for women.  Something about women being creatures of the night, which goes back to the Middle Ages, if not further.  But that women are not as hard on outhouses as men are, so the ones with the crescent survived longer, into modern times.

Maybe I'll do a Google search on outhouses, and see what else I can find out!

Grizzle Bear

     
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 03, 2005, 09:15:03 AM
The buck and doe are often seen around folks who hunt and in the places they hang out.  Another common one is dogs on the door and sometime also worded "pointers" and "setters."  This of course is worded for those who don't know the differance 'tween and Irsh Setter and an English Pointer. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 03, 2005, 09:52:57 AM
This of course is worded for those who don't know the differance 'tween and Irsh Setter and an English Pointer. ;D

Now, IF we follow this convention, what does a Scottish Terrier do?

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Books OToole on November 03, 2005, 10:20:08 AM
Out houses were marked with suns (male) and moons (female; do to the lunar cycle) because a large portion of the population was illiiterate.

Books
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on November 03, 2005, 11:35:01 AM
If the rest rooms were marked for skirts and for pants, which one did Rattlesnake Jack Use?   ;D ;D ;D

In all truth ... both of them!  ;) ;D ::)

(Seein' as how the male population of the range exceeded the female by about six to one, I - and others - figured that there wasn't much harm in it ....)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on November 03, 2005, 11:50:54 AM
Time I jumped in with an answer to the original question starting this thread .....

The historical aspect, as well as the broader range of firearms contemplated by the rules, both appeal strongly to me as a long-time history afficionado, re-enactor and shooter of muzzle-loaders and other old-timey firearms. 

(With some chagrin, I must admit that I only just joined NCOWS, though that step was long overdue.   Matter of fact, however, I've been seriously pondering whether to even bother renewing my S*SS membership after the current year, since it will no longer afford much real benefit to me in Canada now that I will not even be receiving a printed copy of the Chronicle unless I decide to pay a significantly increased renewal fee ....  And there's more of genuine interest to me in a single issue of The Shootist than in any three or more Chronicles!)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Books OToole on November 03, 2005, 12:45:51 PM
I've been thinking about this question alot since the GAF muster.

The short answer is:  the emphasis on historical correctness.  I did not join untill the Working Cowboy Class was started.  [I could not see the sense in requiring so many guns that you need a cart.]

During the GAF Muster another aspect came to light.  That being the open friendliness of the people.  I began this journey as a Mountain man/ buckskinner.  That group of people were not the most historically correct, but were and are the most generous and helpful folks you will ever meet.  Then I got into military re-enacting / living history.  These folks are very ticky about authenticity and quick to critisize anyone who does not interpret history the same way that they do.

NCOWS people are as friendly and generous as the buckskinners.  Many are as authentic as the ticky military living historians, with out being snooty.

There really are not any clothing police.  One of the shooters at the GAF muster was attired in such a manner that he was not any where near as appropriate as a bit player in a 1950s B western.  I am not ware that anyone said a word to him about his attire.  We just said "good shooting" and left it at that.

Suffice it to say;  NCOWS members are a great bunch of people.

Books
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Wymore Wrangler on November 03, 2005, 01:15:54 PM
Books, you may not have been told but GAF members can emulate "Movie" type military uniforms, so the individual was probably very legal under GAF guidelines, this said without any knowledge of what the individual was dressed as....
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 03, 2005, 01:22:50 PM
Ya almost hit the nail on the head Books, Historic authenticity is just someone's interpitation, one can only do the best they can with the knowledge they have.  Most of us have a specialty of knowledge, where we do better than another area.  I've never found anyone perfect, but those who whine the most about other's flaws almost always have some very bad one's in their portrayal.  

I'm know some flaws were very visable in our cook camp, we are working on hiding them better in the future, but it will never be 100%, but then I don't think anyone got a period correct sickness from spoiled food either.  Repackaging on our scale is almost impossible.

You have to admit, the honestly worn clothing with mismatched buttons, patches and holes in the soles of my boots was a nice touch toward PC. ;D

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 03, 2005, 01:57:58 PM
Actually, there were so many folks in the "old" USA West from diverse countries in Europe, Scandinavia, Brittania, slavic countries, China, etc. that just about any sort of "old fashined" dress can be documented. From my perspective, Hollywood is a poor example of anything relevant, especially if any sort of "western".

I am begining to think that any item-specific "costume" criteria that NCOWS might have might best be tossed in favor of having the individual explain the relevance of each item in his/her impression. I, for one, was wearing three items of clothing that are very specific to my persona as an immigrant assayer ("fiddlers" cap, bussarong shirt, rough-out gloves), but, not something that many (any?) NCOWS members would have been aware of. There are many more such items that I may add and many, many more personas that can be developed. Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 03, 2005, 02:13:01 PM
I think that Books made a good point here.  I am aware of the shooter and nobody said anything to him.  You know why?  Because if he does join, then he will start making the transition to something more PC.  One of the successes of the GAF Muster was to introduce potential members to NCOWS.  We did.  I had 3 folks from central Kansas as me how to form an NCOWS Posse.  They had an absolute HOOT.  They saw the NCOWS folks and the level of authenticity and wanted to do it themselves. 

I am sure people would have felt differently if somebody busted their hump about PC and they are not NCOWS members.  Something to think about.  By the way, all the NCOWS members that I saw at the Muster LOOKED great.  The potential members that shot last year made a greater effort to be authentic this year.  Something to think about.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Marshal Halloway on November 03, 2005, 02:21:37 PM
Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.
Lars

 ;D

That would be a sight...

I may be heading off topic here, but when it comes to costumes and Norway, Norwegians have a tradition of using national costumes which is based on authentic outfits used by peope in the 18th and 19th century. In fact, Norwegians wearing their national costumes would be flagging for NCOWS and authenticity if they show up at a shooting event. This is a national costume from the area in Norway where my parents were born.

(http://www.cascity.com/images/norwaynationalcostumes.jpg)

Many Norwegian/Americans living in Minnesota and other states are using these kind of costumes and would be perfect for a banquet. Well, back to topic...
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: James Hunt on November 03, 2005, 02:31:55 PM
Associating with like minded individuals whose interest is experiencing the mid to late 19th century frontier, increasing my understanding of the history of that period, and of course learning from them. If I could only make money doing it, heck if I could just keep more of the money I have in my saddle bags while doing it.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 03, 2005, 03:32:57 PM
Thanks Marshall Holloway!!

I would expect that many, many NCOWS folks would be quite intrigued to learn of the extensive efforts that folks in Norway take in documenting their national costumes (bunader) or Swedes their folkdräkter.

IF Stina (short for Kristina, for the education of others) ever makes it to the Muster, she will be wearing a Swedish folkdräkt from a specific area of Sweden to the banquet. So far, I do not have a folkdräkt.

Lars

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 03, 2005, 04:00:05 PM
Although costume has many meanings I have come to hate the word because to most it implies something worn on Halloween.  I prefer attire, because that's what I wear all the time.  Yes I sell the clothing for a living, but I wear them everywhere because I choose to.

And I love what you wore Lars, I knew it for what it was, one of the best outfits I've seen in a long time.  As you may have noticed I'm getting away from the wide brimmed hat all the time, I often wear a head rag.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 03, 2005, 05:24:37 PM
Delmonico,

A Chinese cook in late 1800s California Chinese attire would be a nice touch. Maybe one from China Camp? Would be great to have a nice meal based around the sun-dried shrimp they produced there (for shipment back to China).

Lars.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 03, 2005, 05:56:05 PM
I am currently doing some research on this, the All You Can Eat Chinese Buffet serving Americanized versions of Chinese Food dates to the California Gold Rush.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 03, 2005, 06:38:33 PM
Del,

You will score some BIG Points with me if you can make a`decent batch of Sesame Chicken..... ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 03, 2005, 07:30:53 PM
That sounds like a Gopher Grease dish, will consider it. ;D  Benes Seed is the more common period term for sesame seed. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 03, 2005, 07:47:01 PM
Joss I wish I had the time and could afford to come to one of your shoots with the cook camp and Gopher Grease.   :o :o  You might forget to go shoot. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 03, 2005, 08:10:18 PM
Lets see, the new NCOWS match attendee 10-point laundary list:

1) Meet old friends and make new ones.

2) Eat.

3) Ogle new outfits, new or more complete camps.

4) Eat.

5) See what late 1800s characters are new this year.

6) Eat.

7) See if Rattlesnake Jack has a double.

8) Eat.

9) IF time permits, shoot a few stages.

10) Write note to self to not eat for the first week at home.

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 03, 2005, 08:13:54 PM
Joss,

Now I don't know if you know this, but at the Muster, we awarded best encampments and best outfits based on a criteria that would impress the most stringent authentisist.  (I am not sure that's a real word, but you get my point).  We had a good MANY folks at level 3.  I may have even been at level 2.   ;)

Yes, NCOWS is more than shooting, but I don't like anybody telling me what rifle I can use, and always remember, Shooting is the glue that binds this book together.  The S is for Shootists....There are no R (Reenactor) or H (Historian) in the name.  Now we are as a group greatly benefited by having both the R's and the H's in and among us.  
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 03, 2005, 08:56:28 PM
I am begining to think that any item-specific "costume" criteria that NCOWS might have might best be tossed in favor of having the individual explain the relevance of each item in his/her impression. I, for one, was wearing three items of clothing that are very specific to my persona as an immigrant assayer ("fiddlers" cap, bussarong shirt, rough-out gloves), but, not something that many (any?) NCOWS members would have been aware of. There are many more such items that I may add and many, many more personas that can be developed. Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.

Lars

Lars , you are so right.  The costume form that was used at the GAF Muster was a "first try" and it is already undergoing some changes to account for the special items carried or worn by shooters based on persona.  Almost everyone that registered for the civilian men's contest had the "basics".  I think (but do not know for sure) that the women have more difficulty with shooting attire because 1) dresses are more difficult to shoot in and with the crawling, etc. in the Muster,and even without the crawling, they are, therefore, less desirable attire, (although, personally, I love the dresses of the period and never shoot in anything but dresses but it does take some getting used to - especially on stairs!)  2) there are fewer women involved in NCOWS that also shot the Muster, and perhaps 3) there are fewer women shooting in NCOWS (I don't know?).  The women shooting the GAF Muster did an awesome job, but let's face it, wearing a corset for shooting is difficult.  Been there, done that.  Women have a more difficult job of balancing the period clothing with the desire to do well shooting.  In addition, most of the information I have seen regarding NCOWS (MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE REGARDING NCOWS IS STRESSED HERE) is addressed to the man - ie. the three levels of authenticity do not mention women's attire at all.  Although, I must say, women usually do very well with banquet attire!

The basics list is really very helpful for people starting to put together their own period attire.  During the contest, a lot of additional information was written on the bottom of the form based on the special items and knowledge provided by shooters about their special attire.  The special items worn and carried by folks was what made the difference in the judging.  You and Books and Gripmaker (and others) exceeded expectations for attire and carried items that were based upon your chosen personas.  Very impressive, indeed!  I'd like to see 1st, 2nd and 3rd awards provided for these contests in the future; especially since NCOWS emphasizes both period attire and shooting.  I believe I am correct in stating that some people spend more time and effort on their attire than on their shooting skills because that is their primary interest with shooting secondary (or perhaps equal).  These efforts should be recognized and acknowledged if this is important to an organization.  

By the way - the balance of period attire and shooting - and the reality that there is a continuum in that balance based on peronal and posse desire -along with the great people, is what I find attractive about NCOWS.  Although I must admit, I would have had more difficulty joining the shooting ranks with only small and somewhat distant targets.  When I started shooting five years ago, I had never handled any gun of any kind....ever.  The larger, closer targets of SASS were not nearly as scarey.  While smaller, farther targets are more attractive to seasoned shooters (regardless of their speed), they are intimidating to the new or inexperienced shooter.  A balance might be nice.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Wymore Wrangler on November 03, 2005, 09:22:16 PM
Joss, from the Bylaws, under goals of the organization:

    ORGANIZATIONAL GOALS

The National Congress of Old West Shootists was established to promote the sport of Western Action Shooting and to preserve the heritage of the Old West, 1866-1899.  

Anyone that thinks that the organization wasn't formed around shooting first should have some discussions with the organizations founders...

Chantilly, NCOWS has a very large percentage of women shooters, in fact after attending a few NCOWS matches, I was very surprised by the Kansas SASS clubs that had such few women shooters.... ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 03, 2005, 09:30:09 PM
[Chantilly, NCOWS has a very large percentage of women shooters, in fact after attending a few NCOWS matches, I was very surprised by the Kansas SASS clubs that had such few women shooters.... ;D
[/quote]

EXCELLENT!  Great news....thanks!!  I wish there were more women shooters in Kansas!
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 03, 2005, 09:38:32 PM
Chantilly,

I know that Scout is working on some enhancements for the Military Uniform Catagories.  May prove productive to work with him off line to get the persona and clothing aspects down.  For our first shot at a REAL outfit judging contest we did well I think.  We learn from the Musters too.

And Chantilly,

You are getting your wish.  We ordered Tina a pair of pistols for Christmas.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 03, 2005, 09:47:37 PM
You are getting your wish.  We ordered Tina a pair of pistols for Christmas.

You know Major...that comes in threes for women....Diamonds, dresses AND guns!
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on November 03, 2005, 09:58:34 PM
She already has the diamonds and dresses. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Marshal'ette Halloway on November 03, 2005, 11:28:09 PM
I like the laid back atmosphere.
The shooters were laid back.. the cooks were laid back. the non shooters were really laid back (that'd be me) and the people as a group and indivually are outstanding. Warm family feeling the whole weekend.

 But the best part I like is when Chantilly gave me the job of "checking fly's."..
 Nope I didn't say checking FOR fly's..I said "fly checking".

I was in fact supposed to be helping her do the costume judging. Well, I will tell you this.. this woman has it all under control. She is on top of every little detail and is smiling and laughing all the while she is going around with her garmet check list. And she still finds time to compete and shoot!
 She really didn't need me..and it was a good thing.  I didn't know squat from sic-um...so I wasn't very much help.
 But I did earn my place as "Official Fly Checker". :D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: US Scout on November 04, 2005, 05:24:11 AM
But the best part I like is when Chantilly gave me the job of "checking fly's."..
 Nope I didn't say checking FOR fly's..I said "fly checking".
... But I did earn my place as "Official Fly Checker". :D


Ah, so THAT is what you were doing!   :o ;D

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: US Scout on November 04, 2005, 05:40:07 AM
There is more to NCOWS than just shooting and that is one reason why I prefer NCOWS to SASS or other outfits.  Regardless of where the emphasis is made in the by-laws, the stress on "authenticity" and history is a definite distinction, and the main reason I find NCOWS more interesting.

I was a living historian and reeactor for about 20 years prior to getting involved in CAS.  Consequently, I'm heavily focused on the "authenticity" aspect. Comparing both SASS and NCOWS, I was more impressed with NCOWS' stress on authentic clothing, firearms, etc.  However, being back East there weren't any NCOWS posses to join and shoot with, so I joined SASS.  Not long afterward, I came across an issue of the Shootist and liked what I saw, so sent my membership in to NCOWS.

My only NCOWS shoots have been the two GAF Musters, but I have to say they are two of the very best shoots I've attended.  While I wore a uniform (it was a GAF event after all), I was very impressed with the outfits worn by the "civilian" participants.  I also like the 10 sec penalty for missing.  If it were a real gunfight and you missed too many times, the penalty would be a lot greater, so hitting the modern day shooter with a 10 sec penalty seems fair enough. 

As Chantilly and Maj Matt Lewis have pointed out, the "attire" competition (I associate "costumes" with Halloween so dislike the word) was very competitive.  Almost all had the basics nailed, and most had progressed well beyond that.  I need to make a much more detailed check list for next year's competition, which I expect will be even tougher than this year.

Chantilly is also being too modest - the dress she wore on Sunday was very impressive and could have easily won an award had she been in competition (we judges took ourselves out of the competition).
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 04, 2005, 09:32:00 AM
As one studies the history of the period, the cowboy, lawman or gufighter made up at most 5% of the working population, if that.

At an NCOWS shoot, you see far more towns people, trades people or other occupations picked as a basis for a persona, and I feel safe in predicting that as our membership grows, the proportion of other trades to cowboys, etc. represented will probably approach the historical ratio.
That is what makes NCOWS for me.
RCJ

My reading of USA Old West history, much of it NOT written by Americans or in English, the cowboys figure in it very little, if at all. See my quick list (in another thread) of occupations common in mid-late 1800s. However, it can be claimed that I am baised cause I almost never watched/watch TV and I only ever watched one John Wayne movie (fortunately there was a very impressive redhead Irish lady actor, O'Hara something or other, so the time was not totally wasted).

I feel very "out of place" at big SASS matches because of the extreme "Hollywood" flavor. So far, the NCOWS shoot, especially this GAF Muster, leave me feeling very much "at home".

Re "costume contest" criteria, I agree with Chantilly that it is easy to acheive the basics. How much beyond that one manages to go is where it gets more interesting, both for the individual and for the onlookers.

Chantilly's comments about women's period correct clothes in NCOWS and shooting while wearing them very much repeat what I hear from Stina. I will only add here that Stina and I have found many photos of women on hunting, skiing, hiking, and horseback trips in the late 1800s early 1900s and they were nearly all wearing some sort of skirt and riding sidesaddle. At this point we do not know what, if any, changes to clothing were made to facillitate this. We do think it safe to conclude that some changes were made and that none of these women were wearing "dress up" clothes.

Chantilly's "salute to the military" dress on Sunday WAS impressive!!

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: O.T. Buchannan on November 04, 2005, 04:53:04 PM
I like to study history, to try to find out how things REALLY were 'back in the day'.  I want to know what kind of timepiece someone of the social/financial status of my persona would have carried, and then I want to carry one just like it...an original, if possible (which I do).  I want to find out what kind of clothing they used, and I want to duplicate it.  I want to study the boots they wore, and then step into boots JUST LIKE THEIRS, and walk the range and try to put my hands on history as much as we are able to do in this modern time and day.

I want to shoot the exact same type of firearms they shot, with the same type of propellant, and I want to know the capabilities and limitations of those firearms with the original type propellants and loads.  Mostly, I want to attend events with people who are of a like mind....I want to share with them what I have learned, and I want to LEARN FROM THEM as well.

To me, this is what NCOWS is all about....
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Will Ketchum on November 05, 2005, 11:15:09 AM
I like to study history, to try to find out how things REALLY were 'back in the day'.  I want to know what kind of timepiece someone of the social/financial status of my persona would have carried, and then I want to carry one just like it...an original, if possible (which I do).  I want to find out what kind of clothing they used, and I want to duplicate it.  I want to study the boots they wore, and then step into boots JUST LIKE THEIRS, and walk the range and try to put my hands on history as much as we are able to do in this modern time and day.

I want to shoot the exact same type of firearms they shot, with the same type of propellant, and I want to know the capabilities and limitations of those firearms with the original type propellants and loads.  Mostly, I want to attend events with people who are of a like mind....I want to share with them what I have learned, and I want to LEARN FROM THEM as well.

To me, this is what NCOWS is all about....
 

OT, you nailed it right on the head.  I didn't really get it until I read one of your columns and the light went on. :-[ ;D

That is why I don't shoot my Ruger Vaqueros in NCOWS matches and I only shoot black powder (as much as I hate the stuff) ;) I have so many problem with my feet that I do make a concession with my foot wear just like I do when I take my modern medicines.  I can't go back to the 19th Century but I can experience some of what they did with the limitations that I won't jeopardize my health.

This is what is great about NCOWS the degree of authenticity is a personal choice.  After meeting the minimum requirements it is up to the individual just how far they go.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 05, 2005, 01:47:19 PM
Chantilly's comments about women's period correct clothes in NCOWS and shooting while wearing them very much repeat what I hear from Stina. I will only add here that Stina and I have found many photos of women on hunting, skiing, hiking, and horseback trips in the late 1800s early 1900s and they were nearly all wearing some sort of skirt and riding sidesaddle. At this point we do not know what, if any, changes to clothing were made to facillitate this. We do think it safe to conclude that some changes were made and that none of these women were wearing "dress up" clothes.

Lars

Lars -

Women's clothing changed dramatically during the late 1800's.  By the 1890's, gone were the big bustles of the 1880's.  The 1890's saw a little less yardage to the skirts (although still a great deal of yardage compared to today!), no bustles, and split skirts for outdoor activities were acceptable.  Lou Graham's wonderful hunting outfit worn at the banquet was propor attire during the 1890's lending a great deal more mobility to women engaged in outdoor activities.  Women's sleeves ballooned during the 1890's which are a challenge for shooting - women have to be a little more careful with the rifle and shotgun when shooting with those huge sleeves!  Corsets were still the norm, and if you get a good fitting corset, they are comfortable when not tightly laced.  (The medical problems caused by tightly laced corsets is interesting reading if Stina is interested.)  Regardless, corsets allow far less mobility (bendability) then modern woman are used to adding to the challenge of shooting in a corset today.  Shooting in a corset can and is done by some women; you learn to adjust just like shooting in the skirts, petticoats and bustles. 

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Stina on November 06, 2005, 04:41:33 PM
Chantilly--

I'd be very much interested in a fuller description of Lou Graham's hunting outfit!

And yes, I've read a thing or two about the detrimental effects of 'tight-lacing', and certainly don't intend to let myself in for any of the medical issues involved, tho' I think I'd have had to start wearing corsets a good many years ago to get the full effect.

Luckily, I know several people who can help me make and fit a corset properly, so I hope I'll still be able to move in it when I get it!

Stina
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Joyce (AnnieLee) on November 07, 2005, 09:07:23 AM
<Sticks her hand up>

Howdy! I shoot in a corset!

Yep, you have to be careful to have it comfortably, not tightly, laced. If it is laced correctly, the corset not only doesn't hurt, it adds back support. I've found that I am less tired at the end of a shooting day when I wear a corset than when I do not. It's all about the fit. Having a GOOD corset maker is a big help. The corset has to be cut low enough on the sides to give you a full range of arm movement, then laced tight enough so it doesn't "creep" up on you.

One thing I'd like to request: Some folks think that women in NCOWS are prohibited from wearing pants. I've seen a few NCOWS posse pics that show women in pants. Back in our time frame, women at work wore what was prudent, especially in the winter months. That included pants. Would folks please come out and say that it's ok for women to wear pants?

Thanks,

AnnieLee
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Will Ketchum on November 07, 2005, 10:08:57 AM
Annie Lee, NCOWS doesn't prohibit woman from shooting in pants.  What they do prohibit is the tight, form fitting pants like the ones worn by Sharron Stone in "The Quick & The Dead".

Woman sometimes wore pants around the ranch or the farm when doing chores but wouldn't be caught dead in them in public.  On the other hand women who were impersonating men such as Calamity Jane or Charly Parkhurst (who was caught dead in pants). dressed in the typical baggy pants worn by men.

I suggest that woman interested in the topic get a copy of "The Woman (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809415143/cascityinassociw/104-1804621-2204763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&camp=1789&link%5Fcode=xm2)" of Time Life's "Old West" series.  There are several pictures of woman in men's clothing.

(http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/11/b7/4fe47220eca079d7f00f4010._AA240_.L.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809415143/cascityinassociw/104-1804621-2204763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&camp=1789&link%5Fcode=xm2)

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Grizzle Bear on November 07, 2005, 10:10:26 AM


AnnieLee said:

"One thing I'd like to request: Some folks think that women in NCOWS are prohibited from wearing pants. I've seen a few NCOWS posse pics that show women in pants. Back in our time frame, women at work wore what was prudent, especially in the winter months. That included pants. Would folks please come out and say that it's ok for women to wear pants?"

CAN O'WORMS ALERT!  CAN O'WORMS ALERT!

You are correct in saying that women are not prohibited from wearing pants.  The trick is they have to be correct pants.  What is objected to is women wearing the tight modern fitting ladies Wah-Maker type pants.  If you wear parts that are correct to the time and your character, they would be fine.  If your character is working like a man (or trying to pass as a man) wear mens trousers.  The split riding skirts are fine.  I was just reading about some of the women (wives and sweetheats, not camp followers) that traveled with Civil War regiments, having outfits like a Zouave, with the very baggy pants.

There are very few things that are cut-and-dried, black-or-white, this-or-that.  And like anything else in NCOWS, if you can document it, you can use it!

Grizzle Bear



Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Kayleen on November 07, 2005, 11:09:42 AM
Annie Lee,
  I have been caught at the range wearing trousers. Yes, me of all people. They are baggy, and I wear them while impersonating a Snake Oil Salesman. Best part of that was a couple of very good friends did not recognize me.
  The key to trousers is as a couple have mentioned earlier, form fitting is out. Ladies in the pictures that I have viewed wore baggy pants often times under their skirt. But I have seen pictures of gals branding cattle with skirts on.
  I don't have a problem with the split skirts or riding skirts as they are called. Don't own one though. I like the fancy stuff to much.
  LoneGunman has a book, Ladie's in Pants(?), excellent reference. If you can find 2 sources of documentation, pictures with dates are great, present it to the congress.
Kayleen
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on November 07, 2005, 11:23:06 AM
Howdy AnnieLee,

Welcome aboard!  Glad you finaly decided to join us here in NCOWS.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lou Graham on November 07, 2005, 06:42:59 PM
I wore pants at the Muster and lived to tell about it ;D

Even though ladies can be "excused" from the more strenuous stage instructions, I like to do all of it as written.  I shot one-handed and got rug burns on my elbows from the low crawl right along with the men.  Yes, I've always been a tomboy ;D

I got a pair of 1873 Levi's specifically for the Muster because I knew we would have things to do that could not be done in a skirt and petticoat safely or without great loss of modesty and dignity.

Lou is from Seattle.  There was a great deal of  trade between San Fransisco and Seattle.  She could have easily gone down to C.C. Filson's and bought some Levi's jeans.  
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 07, 2005, 07:59:34 PM
I think it would be a hoot for a posse of women to shoot in bloomers  :o  - The HUGE bloomers that were advertised and worn by some with the knee length skirt - strange looking clothing!

Lou - do you have a picture of your hunting outfit worn to the GAF banquet that you could post?  Stina is interested in seeing it and if there was one thing (or more) that I forgot - it was the camera!

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Delmonico on November 07, 2005, 08:11:08 PM
I have been asked several times to do some research on the "Ladies in Pants" thing.  As we all know, there is a definate lack of many pictures,  I can think of four off hand, Little Britches and Cattle Annie, Several of Martha Jane Canary and Charlie Parkhurst.  The problem here is that folks paying to have a picture taken seldom do not dress up.  150 years from now among the photo's taken by professinal photographers you won't see many of a house wife wearing what she wore that day to clean the house.

If one goes back in time a bit to the diaries of those who crossed the overland trails you will find accounts of many ladies who disscarded the dresses that got singed around the campfire for their husbands extra pair of pants and shirt or bought them at the first store.

To think that ranch and homestead women did any less is in my opinion to do a great disservece to these ladies.  On the other side of the coin, many of us remember a Grandmother who worked around the farm in pants and shirts, but "ALWAYS" changed into a dress when visiting neighbors or going to town.  These were women who grew up at the end of the era we portray so this needs to be taken into account also.  

I often use the "Blizzard of 1888" as an example, "it's daylight, the storm has stopped in the night, your husband left before daylight to see if the children are OK since they didn't come home yesterday from school.  You have a cow to milk, the chicken coop is covered and the drifts are 8 feet high between them and the soddy, wear you prairie dress if you want, but I doubt it."

This is the results of 5 years research, I can't say yes, but I won't say no they never.  I do know the modern "show my butt" pants did not exist.  But I would bet there were more women wearing pants than many believe, just not in the general public.  

Since though the shooting done does not repersent the gay social shooting events of the time period, but are attempted to somewhat duplicate events that happened or could have happened, I would guess many ladies if push came to shove would not bother to change from "men's" clothing before defendin their home.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Marshal Halloway on November 07, 2005, 08:17:37 PM
Lou - do you have a picture of your hunting outfit worn to the GAF banquet that you could post?  Stina is interested in seeing it and if there was one thing (or more) that I forgot - it was the camera!

 :)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lars on November 07, 2005, 09:15:37 PM
Thanks for posting that pic of Lou in her "Huntress" dress!! I will call Stina's attention to it.

It is really nice to see a pic of Lou in something other than her "CAS shooter" clothes!!

Lars
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Stina on November 07, 2005, 10:14:25 PM
I think the pants issue very much depends on your persona.  And maybe partly on weather--we shoot at a club that goes year 'round out on the Colorado prairie, and I can tell you, it's COLD out there in November with a 20-mile-an-hour wind!  It's not an NCOWS shoot, so I can wear pretty much whatever, but if I needed to go in character, there'd surely be a pair of 'red woolies' in my life!!  And a flannel petticoat....I can't really see Swedish Stina in pants, no matter what.  But for that matter, I'm not at all sure what she's doing with revolvers!

Stina
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 07, 2005, 10:36:32 PM
A couple of interesting websites regarding women's reform clothing -

this one BRIEFLY mentions an article about women dressing in men's clothes -

http://www.fathom.com/course/21701733/session3.html

Another regarding Amelia Bloomer and Rational Dress Reform....  http://www.fashion-era.com/rational_dress.htm

Laughing Moon Mercantile Pattern for sporting attire - http://www.lafnmoon.com/110_ladies_sporting_costumes.html 
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Chantilly on November 07, 2005, 11:34:02 PM
Off subject, but then again....not - one of the good things about NCOWS - the desire to discuss period attire - and we are on women wearing men's clothes .... still...don't you love it? -

Pretty scarce, signed 1860s, Elliott & Fry cdv of the American Civil War Heroine and Doctor Mary E. Walker (1832-1919). Walker quite a figure in her time, was a supporter of Womens` rights, tended to wear male clothing, and became a respected figure during the American Civil War. During the earlier part of the war she tried to join the Union cause, was denied a commission as a medical officer but joined as an un-paid volunteer and served as acting assistant surgeon; therefore becoming the only female surgeon in the U.S. Army. She worked in the U.S. Patent Office Hospital in Washington moving on later to serve as a surgeon on the Union front lines for nearly 2 years. Constantly crossing the confederate lines to treat civilians she was eventually arrested in 1864 and imprisoned for several months before being returned in an exchange of prisoners. In 1865 she was presented with The Congressional Medal of Honour in recognition of her efforts and contributions to the war effort; she was the only woman to be presented with this, her country`s highest honour. She was asked to give it back in 1917, which to her credit she refused to do, proudly wearing it until her death in 1919.  (Medal rescinded 1917 along with 910 others, restored by President Carter 10 June 1977.)

Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Ornery Orr on December 15, 2005, 09:48:53 PM
I do it just so I can get a chance to see Major Matt wear a bonnet and how many firearm mishaps Lone Gunman can have in a years time.  The other reason is once a month at Logan, IA I get to visit with River City John and shoot at the increasingly popular Gunfire In The Hills range with a great bunch of folks. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Surly Bob on January 22, 2006, 04:25:05 PM
Why I like NCOWS......I can't imagine why....
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Lucky Deuce on March 04, 2006, 10:50:10 AM
  I like it because of the emphasis toward authenticity.  I was in Buckskinning for years and enjoyed the camaraderie and sitting around talking about research we had done and what we found to make our gear more authentic.  I joined a different CAS group thinking that it was going to be like Buckskinning only covering the “Cowboys of the Old West”.  Boy was I wrong.  All the emphasis was on shooting with a nod to “looking kind of like a cowboy”…  Someone pointed me to NCOWS and I became a life member immediately…
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Books OToole on November 30, 2006, 03:57:04 PM
I've been doing living history for almost 30 years.  One of the things that was said comparing buckskinners to military re-enactors is that;  "If you stumbled into a buckskinner camp naked and starving, you would be fed and clothed."  Do the same thing at a military re-enactment and you would be ridiculed.

Now I've been a buckskinner and a military re-enactor.  The later are good people once they except you, but it can be a challenge to get excepted.

The people that I have met and shot with at NCOWS all have the buckskinner sense of hospitality.  Every time I had a firearm malfunction, I had 2 or 3 people immediately offer to loan me a gun.

And I have yet to run into the "clothing Nazi."  I'd kinda like to meet him (or her) to see if he is a smart as his reputation.

Books
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on November 30, 2006, 08:59:32 PM
Books, he wouldn't be as smart as he thinks  he is. was.  whatever ...  ;)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on December 30, 2006, 09:18:27 PM
Why I like NCOWS because They like to shoot real loads . They were also smart to stop the short stroke kits and to put a minimum velocity in place . I am glad that it's about the History , not the Hollywood version . Hope to see you at the 2007 Nationals .
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, 01:00:39 AM
Howdy Rowdy,

I am looking forward to it!!  Great time this year and I am excited about 2007!! ;D ;) ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Outlaw Cracker on January 13, 2007, 12:17:59 AM
I read one of Joss's post about how NCOWS can accomodate our little niches and that got me thinking.  We are all quick to point out what we don't like, but I would like to start this thread with the focus of what we do like about NCOWS:

Me personally, I like the atmosphere of NCOWS.  Every NCOWS shoot that I have been to had a campfire going.  There is something about an open fire that really does it for me.  I like the primitive camping aspect too.  I will never take it to the level of Mike Tatham or Dr. Bob, but there is something ultra relaxing and casual about the intimacy created around a period campsite.  I also like the focus on history.

I think you all realize, I love the competitive shooting aspect of the game, but these are some of the other itches that NCOWS scratches for me.  What does it do for you? 
Makes me wish that there was a NCOWS close to me.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: River City John on January 13, 2007, 08:49:27 AM
Well OC, it only takes three to start a posse, and we have many members who have not affiliated with a posse. We even have one posse that is a social club and does not plan to hold shoots (though they do shoot).


Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Mick Archer on February 28, 2007, 12:16:32 PM
  Howdy Pards!
 
  "Now I've been a buckskinner and a military re-enactor.  The later are good people once they except you, but it can be a challenge to get excepted."

   Just a'funnin' and a-teasin' a wee bit... but

   I think you meant "accept."    ;)
   Some are elitists and snobs who value themsleves only as a measure of who they can belittle or put down- and "except" everyone but themselves.

    Buffalo Springfield

   
 
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Marshal Deadwood on April 19, 2007, 08:40:49 AM
Well,,hope ya'll dont toss me out at Hooten. I cant stand to NOT have a good time,,,,so,,im loading up some new humor material !

Marshal Deadwood  *whos great passion in life is stomping mudholes in arrogrance..

My tombstone shall read,,,"I TOLD YA I was SICK !"
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Mick Archer on April 19, 2007, 11:34:54 PM
  Howdy Pards!

  Buck Nekkid!  You old Reprobate!  I know you!

  Will I be able to pick you out of the crowd because you are naked then?
   ;)  :)

  Mick Archer
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Sunday Bill on August 05, 2007, 11:25:13 PM
Some things I like about NCOWS:

1. Campfires, but I've had a campfire in deer camps, on fishing trips, while buckskinning, primitive archery competitions, reenactments, anywhere I camp, etc., etc.
2. Attention to detail, but as a retired high school and college art teacher and crudely producing artist, I've preached detail most of my life.
3. Friendly competition, but I found that in college rifle team competition, archery, muzzleloading, pistol shooting, other forms of CAS, etc., etc.
4. A love of history, but I found that in genealogical groups, historical societies, reenactments, etc.
5. Cooking over a fire, but I like it so much I forged a tripod and keep it set up in my back yard and own several Dutch ovens.

The UNIQUE thing I like about NCOWS:

In your search for the truth about how it really was, none of you appear to me to make an effort to alter whatever facts you discover, no matter the potential inconvenience.

I mention this because I have recently been very disappointed in two other groups, formerly dear to my heart, who have allowed members to author fallacies (that I can prove incorrect) in their respective national publications in an attempt, in my opinion, to cast a different light on historical events. Both these were political in nature. Neither individual responded when I called attention to their errors via e-mail.

With some of my other favorite things (see numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, above) thrown in, I think I'm beginning to like it around here.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on August 06, 2007, 12:19:14 AM
Howdy Sunday Bill,

Glad to hear that you are happy here by our fire!  Most are.  Been buckskinning, [nearly 30 years] reenacting, [nearly 20 years] and NCOWS FOR 3 shooting seasons.  It sure does seem to be the right place for me. ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Will Ketchum on August 06, 2007, 06:46:15 PM
Sunday Bill, you sound like our kind of prospect :D  Just remember in NCOWS the degree of authenticity is an individual thing.  No one is forced to go beyond the basics.  Some do most things in as authentic a way as they can others, like James Hunt and Monterey Jack Brass won't use something until they can prove it was used by the type of individuals they portray, even if they know it was available.

None is wrong each does as they feel they want to.  We try not to critique others unless asked.

I welcome you to our camp.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Whiskey Johnson on January 31, 2008, 08:32:14 PM
Campfires....shooting......history.....Friendly Marines ...........

This sounds too good to be true, I suspect an AMBUSH!

 :D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Tjackstephens on February 01, 2008, 06:33:20 PM
You all sure sound like my kind of people. Hope to visit with many of you at the 08 NCOWS NATIONAL at Evansville, IN That's the first week of June. TJ

Texas Jack Stephens(aka Jim Stephens) SASS#12303, NCOWS #2312, Hirams Rangers #22, Member NRA, JCR, Hartford Lodge 675, and a fun loving cowboy.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dick Dastardly on March 29, 2008, 05:03:22 PM
Howdy Major Matt,

From my extremely limited exposure to NCOWS, I'd have to say it's the pards.  I've seen nothing but helpful suggestions to help me fit in and enjoy the sport.  I think I'm going to enjoy the company around your campfire.

DD-DLoS
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Jed Cooper on May 16, 2008, 02:32:34 PM
I agree - the people.  And fewer gamers ...

 ;)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dedwood Dave on August 27, 2008, 07:02:40 PM
         Howdy major matt you may not remember me I think I helped put up yours and Homers tent.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I like ncows because when I'm at a shoot or reeactment I'm having fun and I'm relaxed. I also like the atmosephere. There's always a fire going and there's always coffee grians in your coffee. 8) ;D And there's the all famous Charlie and Peevine poker tourniment. Well i'm going to stop writing this post' it's starting to feel like school assighnment.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major Matt Lewis on October 22, 2008, 08:40:19 PM
Deadwood and Dastardly...

Welcome to the fire and you can swing by for some hot Chocollate anytime you want.

Sorry for the late replies, I have kind of fallen off the face of the earth for a bit. :)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Charles Isaac on October 29, 2008, 01:35:34 PM
I was Googling for some info on a 2d Model S&W "Baby Russian" I just added to the collection and found NCOWs.  Didn't know anything about NCOWs, but like the idea of it. Seems like the anti-CAS, meaning, it has none of the things I don't like about CAS.

So far, I understand that NCOWs rules say:

 No Hollywierd leather or garments.
 No gun cofigurations that never existed pre 1899 such as the Ruger Blackhawk with micrometer sights or an SAA with an 1877 Lightning/Thunderer grip (but the Lightning/Thunderer is illegal in CAS?) ??? ???

 No squibs, bullets have to fly at least 600 fps.

To make matters better, NCOWs members seem to be in this more for the love of shooting, the comraderie and maybe seeing a piece of what late 18th century frontier life was like. Not so much of the "match" mentality, as in, "gaming the game".
 
And what I like most is, NCOWs acknowledges the existance of double action revolvers during the Cowboy Era! I know there aren't  many in the Movies, except some of the shooting scenes as stand ins for the featured SAAs. These double actions were technology of the day and I think it is a shame that CAS shooters are missing out on an entire category of classic firearms.

By the way, the .38 "Baby Russian" that inadvertantly brought me here is a fine shooter at 21 feet ;)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Books OToole on October 29, 2008, 01:59:53 PM

Lightning/Thunderer grip (but the Lightning/Thunderer is illegal in CAS?) ??? ???
 

Original Colt Lighting/Thunderers are NCOWS legal; because they are Double Aciton.
The modern copies are SA only and therefore not true copies of the original.

The birds-head grip has only shown up on (I think) four original SAA Colts.  They were special ordered by a man named Crapo.
[Only four means they were in common use.]

Charles, you are correct about this NCOWS site.  Lots of information and very little gamesmanship.


Welcome;

Books

Books
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Charles Isaac on October 29, 2008, 02:33:39 PM
Hello Books

Thanks for the information.

I think some day I would like to join NCOWS and go to a shoot. Seems like a lot of good times to be had. I think I have guns for every class except the repeating rifle.

 My Krags are too powerful I suppose as I did not see them listed as being legal.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Irish Dave on October 29, 2008, 02:35:46 PM

Charles:

Glad you found us. It's a pretty good bunch.

I'd say much of your observations are dead on.
Sounds like you'll fit right in with our outfit.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Books OToole on October 29, 2008, 03:24:14 PM

I think some day I would like to join NCOWS and go to a shoot. Seems like a lot of good times to be had. I think I have guns for every class except the repeating rifle.


Charles;

You will also find, that if you show up to a shoot and your rifle (or something else) isn't right;  someone will loan you what you need.
I have seen it happen over and over.  When my '66 [clone] malfuntioned, I had multiple offers of a loan before I got back to camp from the range.  Then Montana Slim, who is a gunsmith, fixed mine.

It really is a great buch of people.

Books
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: River City John on October 29, 2008, 03:56:43 PM
Charles,
On your Krag, also visit the Grand Army of the Frontier forum on this site. The GAF conducts shoots under NCOWS rules, and are an equally great bunch of people.

Visit our NCOWS website and join the fun.
RCJ
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Ol Gabe on October 29, 2008, 05:02:58 PM
Charles, Kind Sir,
Welcome!
As River City John indicates, you would fall into the parameters of the GAF most easily. I encourage you to look at the forum on this website if you haven't done so already as it is a positive endeavor to encourage participation in Historical Military events.
Best regards and good shooting,
'Ol Gabe
NCOWS #925
GAF #114
Bvt. Capt.
Adjt., Retired
c/o Dunbar Station
Iowa Territory
USA
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Charles Isaac on October 30, 2008, 07:59:29 AM
Hello Gents

Well, I guess I also like NCOWS because I made my first post 1 day ago and have only been made to feel welcome. No comments made with disdain alluding to inexperienced newbies, greenhorns, pilgrims. Just positive comments about shooting fun.

Tried the NSSA board because I like history and shooting original US Military arms, so shooting in a Skirmish seemed like a good Idea at the time. No welcome at all and you would have thought these guys actually fought the Civil War and I was some kind of tinhorn. Then there is the issue with them shooting mostly 2 band muskets with tall squared off front sights and all manner of rear target sights. Just seems wrong to me. Now, I know I should not stereotype all Skirmishers from an experience 10 years ago, but the perception was created. So I just continued to go to the range with my ancient iron surrounded by gents that have no intrest in these arms of a bygone era.

I have gone to several modern shoots I found out about on the internet. I went there to win nothing and always left with a new friend, something that a trophy pales in comparisom to.

I am very humbled by the information and welcomes. Thank You
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on November 01, 2008, 01:44:31 PM
You're VERY welcome here, Charles.

We were ALL new at one time.
 ;)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Charles Isaac on November 02, 2008, 04:00:46 PM
Thanks Steel Horse.

I see there are some NCOWS members in Va. Hopefully there will be a shoot sometime in the near future.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on November 05, 2008, 11:32:31 AM
Thanks Steel Horse.

I see there are some NCOWS members in Va. Hopefully there will be a shoot sometime in the near future.


I know it's a bit of a drive, but you're always welcome here in Indiana!
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: gw on November 23, 2008, 10:01:27 AM
Sorry for the late replies, I have kind of fallen off the face of the earth for a bit. :)
glad to see you have returned                                                                                                                                                                                     Deadwood                 
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Smokin Gun on December 29, 2008, 01:45:21 AM
After readin' your Posts I had to clang a gong and say I sure like what I have read in this thread... I was invited to CAS Shoot at the Desert Marksmen R&P Club, Anteope Valley, So. CA. I had jus' gone to watch and see what it was like and meet some new faces. The guy that invited me didn't show...(Officer of the Law) So I knew no one there,  even though I've been member of a Black Powder Mountain Man Group and BP Revolver Shootin' Since 1980's.
All were very cordgile, offered rifles and shotguns to borrow.

Jus' thought I'd chime in...

Thanks,

SG
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: RickB on June 23, 2010, 09:09:49 PM
For me the reason I am a member of NCOWS is the authenticity. Yeah, at first it was a pain to get authentic but it became a real challenge and with the great people who are members helping me I think I've come a long way. I just need to attend more events now. My old possie quit NCOWS so I quit them. I was a member of the Fort Des Moines Rangers and we were the first possie until it got hijacked. So I stuck with NCOWS and left the possie. Now I need to get myself in gear and join with the order of the phoenix. I got the itch to do some shooting and showing off the (hopfully) authentic gear I've put together.

Thanks for giving me the time to rant. lol
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on June 23, 2010, 11:04:39 PM
RickB,

Glad that you stuck with NCOWS!!  I joined because of the authenticity and having a 2 gun category.  Great pard abound!! ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Will Ketchum on June 24, 2010, 09:38:48 AM
For me the reason I am a member of NCOWS is the authenticity. Yeah, at first it was a pain to get authentic but it became a real challenge and with the great people who are members helping me I think I've come a long way. I just need to attend more events now. My old possie quit NCOWS so I quit them. I was a member of the Fort Des Moines Rangers and we were the first possie until it got hijacked. So I stuck with NCOWS and left the possie. Now I need to get myself in gear and join with the order of the phoenix. I got the itch to do some shooting and showing off the (hopfully) authentic gear I've put together.

Thanks for giving me the time to rant. lol

Rick, I am so glad you have found your way here.  I have fond memories of the old Fort Des Moines Rangers.  They put on the first NCOWS conventions I attended.  I have many great Pards who were members. I was sad when they chose to leave, prompted I'm sure by one of our past NCOWS Marshals :(.   It was happy when Len Ables told me they were starting up the Phoenix posse (what and appropriate name).  I don't shoot as much as I once did but I sure enjoy spending my time with Old Friends.  Let me know when you get access to the members only child board

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Irish Dave on June 24, 2010, 10:37:13 AM


Rick:

Very glad to see you here and my hat's off to your loyalty and commitment to NCOWS.
Folks like you who recognize the outfit for what it truly stands for are the strength and soul of our organization.

As you have said, there are many great folks in this outfit -- and they're the ones that make it all worthwhile.




Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: RickB on August 11, 2010, 11:36:31 PM
I'm glad that I stuck with NCOWS too. It is great to see people who care about the history of the west as well as getting together and shooting the authentic and reproductions of the guns. I just can't get into the TV type outfits that some groups allow. I loved John Wayne and Roy Rodgers too but some of those TV western guys looked a little like a san fran gay rights parade. lol

I know summer is running by as fast as a shy nudest trying to get to some cover, but I still hope to make it to one of the shoots this year and meet up with some of you guys. The sad thing is my guns are clean but I'm a bit rusty. I need to derust myself and get back in the saddle, so to speak.

Sorry for the long breaks in between my visits. I try to come on when life and time allows. Maybe with fall coming on now I'll have more time to be on the puter.

Thanks one and all.
Rick.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on August 12, 2010, 06:33:28 AM
RickB, you're not the only one who visits intermittently - we ALL do from time to time.

As I said to Charles Issac, you're most welcome here and also certainly welcome to our Indiana clubs in particular.  Then there's our Ken-tuck brothers who are also a great bunch.  And then ...

Well, you get the picture!  Come and join the fun!
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: whiskers on November 09, 2010, 10:44:29 AM
I have intended to go to an NCOWS shoot for a long time.  I am tired of the competition in SASS and was looking for something with more fun and less complaining.  I just attended the SW Regional put on by the Texas Ten Horns and I had a great time.  The atmosphere is laid back and competition is second to FUN. Nobody left the range when the match was over, just stayed for good stories and good food.  The food was great and the match was a hoot.  Looking forward to more NCOWS matches in the furure.

Whiskers (don't have a NCOWS number yet but I joined with my wife Sidekick)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on November 09, 2010, 10:57:14 AM
Whiskers,

Glad that you found out how much fun that NCOWS can be.  Them 10 Horns are a great bunch of fellows.  Hope that you can make it to the Nationals in Evansville in June.  Great area for camping and reasonable hotels near by!   ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: whiskers on November 09, 2010, 05:32:09 PM
I'll have to check my schedule. I have already cocmitted to the OWSA shoot in Raton in June, but may be able to work in both, will check dates.

Whiskers
Gatlin Gun Cowboy
Title: "Skirts"?
Post by: PJ Hardtack on February 16, 2011, 06:24:46 PM
You mean I'm going to get a rough ride from the unwashed, unlettered, uncouth SASS-enachs if I wear my beautiful Scottish-made kilt in my family's tartan?
Grant and I will simply form a 'Thin Red Line' and beat off the rabble ;>)
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on February 16, 2011, 06:40:40 PM
If it was not sooooooooooo far, I would don my 95th Regt. of Foot [Rifles] kit and join ya!  Ya can't have too many uniforms!!  ::)  :D  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: c.o.jones on February 18, 2011, 09:24:04 PM
I'M A MEMBER OF THE KANSAS VIGILANCE  COMMITTEE. WHAT BROUGHT  ME TO KVC ORIGINALLY WAS THE CAMPING OUT. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN SITTING AROUND A CAMPFIRE WITH GOOD FRIENDS, TELLING STORIES, LISTENING TO LIES AND SIPPING BAD WHISKEY.  AUTHENTICITY ABOUT MY GEAR AND CAMP IS A NEVERENDING CHALLENGE. BUT IT'S ALL GOOD. TO ME SHOOTING IS SECONDARY. IF I SHOOT GOOD, THATS FINE. IF I SHOOT BAD, THATS FINE TOO. NCOWS IS A GOOD ORGANIZATION. HATS OFF TO YOU BOYS.            C.O. JONES
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Windy City Joe on February 18, 2011, 11:15:19 PM
“Ditto” with the sitting around the campfire with good friends.
Windy City Joe
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Dr. Bob on February 19, 2011, 02:08:59 AM
And, very good friends you both are!!  ;D
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Texas Lawdog on February 22, 2011, 02:00:15 PM
I enjoy NCOWS for the friends I have met attending NCOWS functions. The Convention is a good place to meet new friends and renew aquaintences with old friends. I like the authenticity of the weapons and clothing. I am looking forward to attending the Convention again next month.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: dusty texian on March 22, 2013, 10:23:59 AM
I'd like to take a shot at expressing why I like ,and joined,  NCOWS .I was first drawn to the history of the old west period as a youngster. I was lucky to have grown up in a family that wereTexas, cowboy's from the early day's. My Great Grandfather ,Grandfather ,Dad ,God rest their Soul's ,were men I looked up to and I was showed the way it was way back yonder by them.I try to teach my Children and now Grandchildren what I have learned of the past that is important, And should not let become lost. The way I see it NCOWS is about keeping our past and history alive and accurately passed along . I also think that one of the most important thing's the NCOWS club must do to insure it will continue ,is to reach out to new member's ,both young and old. As a new member I want to Thank you All for allowing me into your club, and most of all ,being tollerant of my well ment but sometimes not worded wright comment,s . I have been treated very Kindly by alll member's here.  And made many new friend's .And like Charles Isaac ,wrote back in 10-30-08 Most times when I go to the shooting club I belong to I'm the odd duck , with my antique firearms and old time catridges .Most times after the( what kinda gun is that) question they will ask( are you dressed like that for some kinda cowboy shoot).  That's how I dress every day ! I usually leave the club with at leaste one or two fella's sayin that is somthing I would like to try.On my huntin ranch's I hunt only with antique or replica type firearms and that is startin to rub off on the other hunter's . Thinking on going Vintage Huntin ONLY in the near future at the ranch's  , Heck  most of the hunters are old hands at it ,and it's not about what they get ,it's how they get it .So to Speak. And that's why we hunt together,a good bunch.And I think I have fell in with a good bunch here, So I feel rite at home here. And Thank's to You All ,for makin me feel at home .Dusty Texian.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Tjackstephens on March 22, 2013, 10:40:09 AM
Dusty, very well put. Sure gald to have you with us. Tj
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Major 2 on March 22, 2013, 11:52:11 AM
Dusty, You are most welcome glad you're here
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Texas Lawdog on March 22, 2013, 02:10:04 PM
Dusty, What part of the Great State of Texas are you located? I never met my maternal Grandfather, he died before my mother was born. He was a working cowboy on some of the ranches of the Texas Panhandle. I worked as a cowboy on a ranch in the Panhandle during the summers of HS. I attended a "cowboy" school in the Oklahoma Panhandle and worked at some of the large feedlots in the Oklahoma and Texas Panhandle After college, I pursued a career in Law Enforcement for 40 years in Texas. My father was the Sheriff of the town I grew up in till be passed away. I have been fortunate to have known many Hollywood Western Actors and I appeared in a modern western movie in HS. The western lifestyle has been a big part of my life and when I discovered NCOWS, I knew that this is where I belong.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: dusty texian on March 22, 2013, 02:37:00 PM
A big ole Howdy there, Texas Lawdog . I was born in S/E Texas most of my folk are from the Anderson,Navasota area. While growin up Dad had a place out in Blanco Co. near Round Mountain from the early 70s on up to about 2000. I have a place out in Brewster Co. N/E Co. near Marathon just east of the Tinaja Mountains ,and 3.5 mi. North of the Rio Grande . And I lease a place up near Robert Lee,Coke Co. up on the divide .I just got me a place back in the Hill Country betwean Llano and Mason just north of the Llano river ,by a few hundred yds.. Gonna plant my root's,s around there for a while .That Mason , Llano ,Fredricksburg country just feel's like home to me. But a big part of me will always be in Brewster Co. That's still the Wild West down Yonder, but If your in Law enforcement you know that. Gotta learn to sleep with one eye open down on the border. If you ever down from the Panhandle give me a holler . Always ready for a visit with my neighbor's ......Dusty.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Texas Lawdog on March 23, 2013, 09:47:04 AM
Dusty, I actually live in the D/FW area now, I moved down here in 72 and never left.
Title: Re: Why I like NCOWS
Post by: Gomezy3k on May 23, 2016, 12:47:00 AM
Way back about 40 decades ago, I got into Buckskinning and really loved it.  I loved the historical aspect of it.  Later as I got older, I came across Cowboy Action Shooting and joined up.  I really didn't like the fact that SASS didn't seem to be that interested in trying to get historically correct but stuck with it, trying in my own way to be as historically correct as I could.  Someone mentioned NCOWS and when I researched it, I immediately became a life member.

I love history of all kinds and especially Old west History.  I wish I lived closer so I could get involved in some of the shoots and activities.  Not many NCOWS members out here in Nevada so not much activity.  I love reading the Shootist.