Cowboy 45 Special brass

[Coffinmaker]

Just rcv'd an e-mail that 45CS brass is again available.  Contact Miss Cubbie.

Coffinmaker

[Fredcdobbs]

Just rcv'd an e-mail that 45CS brass is again available.  Contact Miss Cubbie.

Coffinmaker

Order going out tomorrow. I have some Lee Webley 455 dies with the correct 45LC shell holder, which do just fine on my Schofield brass. Funny. The only Schofield brass I can find is 100 Hornaday for $40. I only now have 50 Schofield brass.
I can get 250 Cowboy brass for about the cost of 200 pieces of Schofield so Check goes out tomorrow. Looking forward to it. Always love something new. I used to shoot 45 Auto Rim in my RVs.

[Bibbyman]

What to do?  I have two Uberti 45 Colts.  I like the idea of the C45S cartridge.  Before I become aware there was such a thing as C45S brass,  I was considering getting ACP cylinders.  I have a bucket full of ACP brass and everything to load them. 

Cost wise,  it may come out close - C45S brass vs two ACP cylinders.   

C45S advantage,  headspace on rim vs mouth and being able to apply a crimp.  Being able to fire both 45 Colt and C45S without swapping cylinders.

Are there more?  Are there more advantage to ACP other than the brass I already have and finding new/range brass is easy.

What is the chances of being able to drop in an ACP cylinder from parts without fitting?  How tough is a job like that for a home gunsmith?   Then keeping track of the cylinder that goes with what gun? 

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[Fredcdobbs]

What to do?  I have two Uberti 45 Colts.  I like the idea of the C45S cartridge.  Before I become aware there was such a thing as C45S brass,  I was considering getting ACP cylinders.  I have a bucket full of ACP brass and everything to load them. 

Cost wise,  it may come out close - C45S brass vs two ACP cylinders.   

C45S advantage,  headspace on rim vs mouth and being able to apply a crimp.  Being able to fire both 45 Colt and C45S without swapping cylinders.

Are there more?  Are there more advantage to ACP other than the brass I already have and finding new/range brass is easy.

What is the chances of being able to drop in an ACP cylinder from parts without fitting?  How tough is a job like that for a home gunsmith?   Then keeping track of the cylinder that goes with what gun? 
I bought two cylinders and had to have them fitted to my RVs. The gunsmith shaved the back and I shot 45 auto rims. Loved em.
I heard there are two sizes of acp cylinders for Rugers. 45 acp is not really a pre 1900 peroid correct round. (But then 45 Cowboy didn't exist but Schofield did. I ordered 250 45 Cowboy. Same price as 200 Hornaday Schofield. What the heck. I'll try it. j

[Bibbyman]

That brings up an interesting question.   Can the C45S be fired in a cylinder chambered for the 45 ACP?   This would eliminate the long bullet jump from case to throat that would be there when firing in 45 Colt chambers. 

[Fredcdobbs]

That brings up an interesting question.   Can the C45S be fired in a cylinder chambered for the 45 ACP?   This would eliminate the long bullet jump from case to throat that would be there when firing in 45 Colt chambers. 

I guess it would depend on head spacing in the cylinder. If the 45 acp rounds go in flush with the back of the cylinder then there is no room for the rim. If they chambered the gun to use the same headspace as a rimmed cartridge then probablty
If the 45 acp is chambered so the back of the round is unsupported for more than standard spec headspace, then firing 45 Cowboy could be dangerous. Check with a competent gunsmith.
The back of 45 autos is unsupported partially and the brass is heavy in the back end.
Beyond my knowledge but I once had a 40 SW chambered Ruger Vaquero, a special run for San Diego Sheriffs I believe. I eventually had them rechambered for 38-40, this is before Ruger made their 38-40s. I found a standard brass cartridge, ,cut them down to 40sw length and they worked fine. Shot the rimmed rounds in the 40sw chambers and headspace was fine. Doesn't mean you 45acp will be good but I did it. I think I used some odd ball round like a 41 Herters or some really unusual round found some brass for.

[Miss Cubbie]

  Yup, the brass ship finally came in!  We ordered 100K cases. In three days we have shipped out over 12K. We thank y'all for being patient and I love all the notes that have been sent in with the orders! I use it, too, so I couldn't let it just disappear from our sport.

Thanks!
Miss Cubbie

[Bibbyman]

What service.   We mailed off the letter and check for the C45S brass on Saturday and the brass came today in a USPS box. 

Thanks for the quick shipment!

[Fredcdobbs]

I'm liking it. Shown here next to Schofield.
150 ACP bullets and 160 grain RNFP.

[Bibbyman]

That brings up an interesting question.   Can the C45S be fired in a cylinder chambered for the 45 ACP?   This would eliminate the long bullet jump from case to throat that would be there when firing in 45 Colt chambers. 

I loaded my C45S brass using Colt dies instead of ACP.  They would fall in and out of the Uberti 45 Colt cylinder.   I then tried them in my S&W 1917.  They would not go all the way in.  I then took 6 and ran them into a 45 ACP seating die.  They would then fall to within about 1/32" of bottom.   A little thumb pressure would seat them aginst the mouth.  My guess is that the slight sholder on the 200 gr bullet hung up going into the cylinder throat. The cylinder would close and headspace looked fine.  They all fired without a problem and the ejector caught the rims.  I then fired 6 standard ACP rounds without the moon clips.  All 12 shots grouped together with the heavier and stronger ACP bullets in the top half and lighter 200 gr C45S bullets hitting in the lower half.



Here is the C45S rounds that were loaded with the 45 Colt dies.   

I have an old 3 screw Ruger Blackhawk with extra 45 ACP cylinder.   The C45S can't be fired in this cylinder because the cylinder comes back to recoil shield.  No recess for the rims. ACP rounds fall flush with back of cylinder.

Anyone have a BP load for a 200 gr Laser Cast bullet in the C45S case?  I think I have 2F black.  Also have some Pyrodex RS.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Bibbyman;  To find a BP load for the .45 CS, use the normal blackpowder load development procedure.

Measure the depth that your bullet will seated within the case.

Fill the case with a suitable powder (FFFg I'd suggest) so that the load will be slightly compressed by the loaded bullet.

Other than that there isn't much else, other than to avoid petroleum products and lube the bullet with a BP compatible lube, like SPG, or Black Gold.

When I do that I come up with 21 grains of GOEX FFFg, for .45CS, .455 Eley (Webley Mk I) and .45ACP for use in a conversion cylinder.

[Blackpowder Burn]

As far as a BP load goes, just fill the case to the point that you have a slight compression on the powder when you seat the bullet.  However, I don't think you'll want to use the Lasercast bullets.  They use a hard smokeless powder lube which won't work well for BP.  You need a soft, non-petroleum based lubricant (SPG, etc.).  Otherwise you'll get a hard, difficult to clean fouling that will destroy accuracy in a very few rounds and is very difficult to clean.  You also need a bullet design that carries enough lube to keep the entire length of the bore "wetted".

Try one of the Big Lube designs cast and sold by Mark Whyte of Whyte Leatherworks (www.whyteleatherworks.com) or one sold by Buffalo Arms (www.buffaloarms.com).

[Bibbyman]

It may be a winter project to get stuff inline for BP loading. 

I have a Lyman 452460 200 gr mold intended for light target bullet in 45 ACP.  It has two small lube grooves and no crimping groove. 

Lee makes a 200 gr flat nose with single lube groove and small crimp groove.  I'm partial to Lee molds because they are cheap and light. 

I'd hate to clean out my Lyma 450 to change lubes.   For a few,  I could hand lube. Butter? Or sour cream? (Just kidding!)

Do you need the same soft lube for Pyrodex? 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Bibbyman;  Good questions.

You can hand-lube.  Most folks seem to use the pan lube method where you place the bullets in a shallow pan of melted lube.  I merely pinch off a half-pea size lump of lube and rub it into the grooves.  If you are only doing a few bullets this seems the simplest and cleanest - for me.  And you can do it while watching Oprah with your wife!

Years ago, when I was starting, I found a used RCBS lubrisizer and use it for smokeless lube as that was all I was using at the time.  Years later in the mid-70s, I found a used Lyman 450 in a rural yard sale near St. Charles MO.  Now it is my SPG lubrisizer.