Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => STORM => Topic started by: Rube Burrows on May 23, 2023, 08:44:43 AM
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Last week I ordered a Pietta Dance from EMF. I saw they charge 45 bucks for shipping so I thought to myself
"okay, they must send two day shipping or whatever since it's a handgun, although its not considered firearm"
Nope. They charge 45 dollars shipping and they ship it the slowest UPS known to mankind.
Also took 4 days to process and 5 to actually ship. One of these days I guess I'll get the Dance revolver.
I am sure it will be nice and I wouldn't be all that worried about the slow shipping had I not paid 45.00 for shipping.
Rant over ;D
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Shipping might be the greatest but at least you have one coming. Looking forward to photos after you have it. And it's a good excuse to make a new holster! ;D
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:) Well Dagity Nabbitz ;)
I really like the folks at EMF. Been doing business with them for decades. Literally decades. But, and However:
I have always felt that EMF just absolutely STUCK IT TO US for shipping. Not so bad shipping Cap Guns, but really really expensive for Suppository Shooters.
So I can really feel Rubes' pain.
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:) Memory of a Gnat ;)
Will Wingam was posting as I was typing however I did forget to mention I DO have a really swell pair of Pietta Dance & Bros. Cap Gunz. They are the "Old Silver" version with engraving. Most of the 8 inch barrels fell off mine though ;D
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Shipping might be the greatest but at least you have one coming. Looking forward to photos after you have it. And it's a good excuse to make a new holster! ;D
Def. All pluses.
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:) Well Dagity Nabbitz ;)
I really like the folks at EMF. Been doing business with them for decades. Literally decades. But, and However:
I have always felt that EMF just absolutely STUCK IT TO US for shipping. Not so bad shipping Cap Guns, but really really expensive for Suppository Shooters.
So I can really feel Rubes' pain.
I for sure feel that 45.00 for a single revolver shipping that is not at least two day shipping is excessive. I would hate to see what they charge for a cartridge revolver.
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:) Memory of a Gnat ;)
Will Wingam was posting as I was typing however I did forget to mention I DO have a really swell pair of Pietta Dance & Bros. Cap Gunz. They are the "Old Silver" version with engraving. Most of the 8 inch barrels fell off mine though ;D
I have seen some of those. Pretty nice.
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Came in today and it sure is a beauty.
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Congrats, Rube. Looks good. It'll be nice to hear how you like it. How does that large Pietta grip fit your hand? I've talked to a few who really like the way they feel.
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Congrats, Rube. Looks good. It'll be nice to hear how you like it. How does that large Pietta grip fit your hand? I've talked to a few who really like the way they feel.
Well, out of the box I did not really notice a big difference in the grip. It does feel good in the hand but I didn't realize how different the grip is from the normal 1851 Colt Navy grip is.
I went and pulled one of my Pietta 51 Navies from the safe to compare it and yeah, its a good bit different. I don't have an 1860 but my feeling is that it's not quite an Army grip but def. bigger than a Navy grip.
My older Pietta 51 Navy is much more narrow in the middle of the grip.
Anyone have a Converted Dance? I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head for this one and not sure yet what I will do with this one.
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Here is another side by side view of the grips.
One thing that I do like is the Pietta Dance don't have the gloss finish on the grip. More of a dull oiled finish that looks better to me.
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That new Pietta grip is on the 1851's, too. They seem to have changed that in 2015, I think.
As to a converted Dance, I'd say go for it. Here's an original one that was converted.
(https://i.imgur.com/pLKvxyw.jpg)
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:) Hey Guys ;)
Converting the Pietta Dance to suppositories is going to be somewhat problematic. The Cylinder is shorter than a Colt Pattern gun resulting in the Barrel Breach being much longer. And a "Stepped" cylinder from an 1860 won't fit the Water Table.
The Cylinder would actually need to be machined to be a "long Cylinder" type conversion and it would need to be for 44 Colt cartridge with heel base bullets. Can be done but is fairly involved (expensive). The Dance cylinder is not large enough for 45 Colt cartridges.
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:) Hey Guys ;)
Converting the Pietta Dance to suppositories is going to be somewhat problematic. The Cylinder is shorter than a Colt Pattern gun resulting in the Barrel Breach being much longer. And a "Stepped" cylinder from an 1860 won't fit the Water Table.
The Cylinder would actually need to be machined to be a "long Cylinder" type conversion and it would need to be for 44 Colt cartridge with heel base bullets. Can be done but is fairly involved (expensive). The Dance cylinder is not large enough for 45 Colt cartridges.
Thanks for the info.
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That new Pietta grip is on the 1851's, too. They seem to have changed that in 2015, I think.
As to a converted Dance, I'd say go for it. Here's an original one that was converted.
(https://i.imgur.com/pLKvxyw.jpg)
Do you have anymore info on this Dance? Is that one of the few with a recoil shield?
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Do you have anymore info on this Dance? Is that one of the few with a recoil shield?
That one doesn't have recoil shields. They just cut a loading groove in the side of the frame. I don't have any information other than a couple photos I found online. The serial number was one of the special character pistols with 1 diamond.
Kirst conversions will fit but the cylinder end of the barrel needs to be shortened a little bit to accommodate them. Here's what the Kirst site has to say (https://kirstkonverter.com/dance-brothers-civil-war-revolver.html). Evidently you have to take 120 thousandths off it. I don't see why one couldn't take 120 thousandths off the Kirst cylinder and leave your dance barrel alone. You'd need a lathe for that or be prepared to sand on it for a full 24 hours.
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That one doesn't have recoil shields. They just cut a loading groove in the side of the frame. I don't have any information other than a couple photos I found online. The serial number was one of the special character pistols with 1 diamond.
Kirst conversions will fit but the cylinder end of the barrel needs to be shortened a little bit to accommodate them. Here's what the Kirst site has to say (https://kirstkonverter.com/dance-brothers-civil-war-revolver.html). Evidently you have to take 120 thousandths off it. I don't see why one couldn't take 120 thousandths off the Kirst cylinder and leave your dance barrel alone. You'd need a lathe for that or be prepared to sand on it for a full 24 hours.
I just guess that if you take it off the barrel then you would have to already have to shorten to 1.58" 45 Colt rounds. If you take it off the cylinder you'd have to possibly shorten them even more.
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Pietta length cylinder should be fine for "correct" length cartridges. I'd shave the fc end to fit . Maybe even consider 45acp?
Mike
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Pietta length cylinder should be fine for "correct" length cartridges. I'd shave the fc end to fit . Maybe even consider 45acp?
Mike
Thanks Mike.
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Pietta length cylinder should be fine for "correct" length cartridges. I'd shave the fc end to fit . Maybe even consider 45acp?
Mike
The Kirst 45 ACP conversions will also accept C45S and 45 Auto Rim cartridges. You might be able to resize .455 Webley cases to fit in them, too. If I were to convert one, that's the route I'd take and shorten the cylinder rather than the barrel. Any good gunsmith should be able to shorten a cylinder if you didn't want to tackle it yourself.
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:) Hummmmmmm ;)
Some interesting. I tried R & D cylinders in my Dance, they were a "No-Go." As far as I know, the Kirst 45 ACP cylinder will not work with 45 Auto Rim. I could be wrong. Gonna have to slide back inna shop today and check the fit of my Kirst Konverters.
I DO run my Kirst 45 ACP cylinders with 45 ACP as well as Cowboy 45 Special and both run a Treat. Stay Tuna
Hy ya Mike!!
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Hey CM!
I believe you're right about the Auto Rims.
Since my "awakening" with the acp's (as well as talks with Walt) my mission has been to use it as the perfect vehicle to test the open-top platform. I've been shooting my Dragoons with 45C+p loads. Ive already reported that the belt pistols are good with +p's also.
So, testing continues will update soon.
Mike
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:) Hey Rube & ALL ;)
So I trot'd my sorry butt down to the shop. Working on a project anyway. Pull'd out one of my Dance & Bros. by Pietta, and one of my 1851 .44 Conversions (Yea, I know, Never Never), using the Kirst Konverter.
Yes. the Kirst Konverter for .45 will fit the Dance frame, just barely. Stuck the Barrel assembly from the '51 conversion on and fit was fine as well, with the Kirst. However, the cylinder would NOT lock up. The Pietta bolt would have to be altered to come up farther thru the frame window to reach the Kirst cylinder, which would also require alteration of the Hand, or reset side of the Bolt to get the bolt to "lock-Up." If you have "other" Pietta .44 Cap Guns, one can simply swap for an OEM Pietta barrel assembly. If you don't have a barrel assembly laying around, you will have to alter the breach end of the Dance barrel, making it a "one-way" conversion.
An additional note. I know I keep harping on this, but . . . PAY ATTENTION. When using a Kirst Konverter, the second you cut the cartridge channel in the Recoil Shield, you have MANUFACTURED A FIREARM. That frame will FOREVER be a Firearm, no if, ands, or butts. You CANNOT transfer it in any way without going thru an FFL for registration and paying for the Tax Stamp. If you try and transfer it without that step, you have Manufactured a Firearm without a license. BATFE does not have a sense of humor and do not take prisoners. DO NOT POKE that Bear. Oh, It's yours forever without the Stamp. Should you expire, your survivors have no choice but to have that frame DESTROYED!! There is NO GETAROUND.
Yes Auntie June, People are Still Hazardous to Yer Health
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Y'all seem to be forgetting there's a cartridge inbetween the .45 Colt and the .45 ACP/.455 Webley/.45 Cowboy Special: namely the .45 S&W Schofield.
I'd shorten a .45 Colt/.45 Schofield conversion cylinder and load it with .45 Schofield cartridges.
That way I could still use the percussion cylinder if need be.
The timing & lock-up problems is entirely another rabbithole...
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All points well taken by all but wouldn't the Kirst Converter made for the Pietta Dance with the 120 thousands taken off either the cylinder or the forcing cone work best with the bolt and hands? Seems like other than the length thing that would be the best way to convert a Dance.
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:) Rube ;)
Unfortunately, NO. While the Kirst cylinder will rotate with the Kirst Two Step hand, the bolt does NOT extend far enough into the cylinder slots to achieve "lock-Up." One would need to have TWO Hands/Bolts per gun. One set of Hand/Bolt for the Kirst Konverter and one set for the OEM percussion cylinder. The R & D cylinder will operate correctly with the OEM hand/bolt although the cylinder may not quite "Carry-up" for lock-up when cycling the action slowly.
PS: :) Cap'n Redneck ;)
Ah shoot. Correct. I have ignored the 45 Schofield in a shortened cylinder. I may have to compare the Schofield round to the OEM Dance cylinder figuring for length, but that round just might be an option for a "short" cylinder.
PSS: :) Rube ;) I just read your last a little more carefully. There is NO Kirst made for the Dance. It's just a Jam-n-Fudge 1860 Konverter. Just happens to "sort" of fit the Dance. We are actually talking about a well equipped home machine shop (A Mill), A good friend with a home machine shop, Or a well equipped reputable Machinist and you have deep pockets.
We have "best way" vs "easiest way." Best way is to mill the cylinder face back on a Kirst Konverter which may well be in the "short cartridge" realm. Easiest way is to drop in a Kirst Konverter, take a nice new sharp file to the back of the barrel or just replace the barrel. Fit new Hand and Bolt. There may be another Pietta with a round barrel but I don't remember (memory of a Gnat). If you happen to possess a nice lathe, you could mill your own replacement Dance barrel from a .44 '51 Pietta.
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Well, I got the Dance out this weekend and put a few cylinders through it. I have to say, overall I am pleased but the outing was not without aggravation.
First off, I have been dealing with a batch of CCI caps that appear to be out of spec. I had to deal with this the last time I took my 51 Navy out also. The caps that I always used on the 51 Navy would not fit. I pulled out an older can of CCI number 11 caps and they fit. The newer can would not. Also tried number 10 CCI which was a no go. I tried a batch of Remington 11s and they were loose. I was able to make one can of 11s fit but I had to pinch them some just to get them to stay on while loading and not fall off. But...... while shooting they were not tight enough to stay on and I kept loosing caps when firing.
That was pretty aggravating.
Now, I expect the cap and ball guns to shoot high but this one shoots darn near 2 feet high at about 15 feet.
Still, it was fun to shoot and I enjoyed shooting it. Always fun to make smoke.
Here are a couple photos. One loaded up and ready to go.
The other three are stills from a video that show a cap coming off while shooting one of the other chambers.
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Great shots of the falling cap! I can certainly understand the aggravation when you have something dialed in and then something out of your control changes. People that run cap guns always have my respect (except Rugers - just don't like 'em :) ). I simply don't have the patience.
What is the longest range you can shoot? That Dance might be POA at 100 yards! :D
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Great shots of the falling cap! I can certainly understand the aggravation when you have something dialed in and then something out of your control changes. People that run cap guns always have my respect (except Rugers - just don't like 'em :) ). I simply don't have the patience.
What is the longest range you can shoot? That Dance might be POA at 100 yards! :D
Thanks. They were stills from a video. I have actually heard somewhere that the cap and ball guns are set up for 100 yards. Not sure why I would want to shoot one 100 yards unless I was hunting with it and even then I would not want to take a hundred yard shot on an animal with a cap and ball gun. That would prob. exceed my skill level.
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Ahhhhhhhhhh !!!!
Sounds like the perfect candidate for conversion!!!! ( no cap issues!!!) ;)
Mike
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Ahhhhhhhhhh !!!!
Sounds like the perfect candidate for conversion!!!! ( no cap issues!!!) ;)
Mike
I was already thinking about that even before the caps fell off. ;D
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:) Hey Rube!! :D
Nother suggestion. I'm not a fan or OEM nipples. I would suggest a set of SlixShot nipples for your Dance. Better cap fit and better overall ignition. Although, I am also not a fan of CCI Caps. Most of us Cap Gunners have a preference for Remington #10s.
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:) Hey Rube!! :D
Nother suggestion. I'm not a fan or OEM nipples. I would suggest a set of SlixShot nipples for your Dance. Better cap fit and better overall ignition. Although, I am also not a fan of CCI Caps. Most of us Cap Gunners have a preference for Remington #10s.
They are already on order. I just couldn't waif for em to get get here. ;D
I wish I had a pile of Remington #10s. Once I ran out I had to get what I could find and at that time I found a bunch of CCI 10s and 11s.
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Rube,
I have a Dance that I received last year. I plan on converting it probably next year with a '60 Kirst cylinder. The plan is to shorten the forcing cone area and make it a dedicated cartridge gun.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FkLXf8Hb/Dance-stock.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FkLXf8Hb)
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Rube,
I have a Dance that I received last year. I plan on converting it probably next year with a '60 Kirst cylinder. The plan is to shorten the forcing cone area and make it a dedicated cartridge gun.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FkLXf8Hb/Dance-stock.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FkLXf8Hb)
Nice. I will prob. end up doing the same thing.
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FWIW: EMF having a fathers day sale on BP revolvers, including the Dance.