Author Topic: All Four  (Read 4447 times)

Offline DrummerBoy

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All Four
« on: December 30, 2022, 02:27:09 PM »
GREETINGS from New Orleans,
Drummer Boy here, with a dream.
The worst whipping I ever got was when I was seven. Dad had taken us to Sears and turned us loose while he looked for some bolts. After me and little brothers got run off from sitting on the saddles, so I went over to the guns! The sales guy was right in the middle of showing me the finer points of that JC Higgins 30-30 when Dad walked up…now Dad had been in the middle of the Marche Hotton line during that December in 1944 and probably had some of that undiagnosed PTSD…he was Safety Crazy!! Well, the resulting corporal punishment only cemented my love of Lever Guns!!
At this point I’ve managed to get ahold of two Cimarron carbines in 45-60 and 50-95, and just now TWO 28” BARRELS on 40-60 and 45-75…I got the barrels because I want all four calibers (curses on you and your book, Duke Venturino!!) but guns in 40-60 and 45-75 seem to have dried up. I need a plan for this….also I have this compulsion to learn all about using those hand loading pliers…like that campfire scene in Blazing Saddles, but loading ammo instead of breaking wind….just thought I’d let y’all know where I’m at in case anybody has some advice!
Semper Fi
Fred

Offline Roosterman

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Re: All Four
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2022, 03:19:23 PM »
Congrats! I still need a 45 75 to catch up with you. :P
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Offline King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2022, 04:17:41 PM »
Good on ya, Great start. I just have the 40/60 yet to get. Was the 40/60 ever made in carbine form?
King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:07:45 PM »

Online Abilene

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Re: All Four
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2022, 04:35:13 PM »
As far as I know, Uberti only makes the full stock carbine in 45-60 and 45-75.  Some people might call the short-barreled 50-95 Presidio a carbine but it is a short rifle.

Offline King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2022, 04:56:41 PM »
That's what I call mine, a short rifle. Same with the 45/60, 22" barreled short rifle.
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Offline DrummerBoy

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Re: All Four
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2022, 08:43:30 PM »
Thanks All for the input!
I’ll try to be more precise in my nomenclature as soon as I learn it all ;)
Soo.. I have the “Mountie Model” in 45-60 and what Cimarron calls the Presidio in 50-95
And recently I got a couple of 28” octagonal barrels (only) in 40-60 and 45-75.  I got those two barrels as parts because I don’t think they’re made any more “but” Uberti tells me they’ll both screw into any ‘76 receiver…not the most efficient way to go about it, I know…
As I mentioned I’m ABSOLUTELY fascinated with the hand loading “tongs”! I just got a pair for the 32-20 WCF and I can’t stop fooling with it!  I’ve got a dragoon pistol and I’m crazy about that too…slow as heck….the yank..ahh..Federal Troops would be long gone by the time I got ready but you sure get a feel for the process…other than speed, what’s the downside??

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Re: All Four
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2023, 11:54:56 AM »
... I’ve got a dragoon pistol and I’m crazy about that too…slow as heck….the yank..ahh..Federal Troops would be long gone by the time I got ready but you sure get a feel for the process…other than speed, what’s the downside??
If you are a foot soldier, that dragoon is going to weigh you down!   ;)

Offline DrummerBoy

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Re: All Four
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2023, 10:03:36 PM »
King my two short firearms resemble yours pretty closely. I’m fixing to sell an old guitar that I have to finance a long 1876 and some reloading equipment, if I can sort out some appropriate “tongs” and dies….Abilene you’re right on the money wrt lugging this Dragoon around but I love the boom and the tone the plate makes!! :D

Offline King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2023, 11:05:52 PM »
Never sell old guitars! Sell something else.
King Medallion

Offline DrummerBoy

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Re: All Four
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2023, 04:49:50 PM »
Thanks King! What was I thinking!!?!
Well, I got a bag of 40-60 brass from Graf and some .406 coated projos…the minimum in   The Venturino book…my barrels came in from Cimarron today, so maybe the ball is starting to roll…..need primers and Pyrodex and hopefully a pair of Ideal “pliers”will show up…All I gotta do is set up a vise and a “twenty-four” and change barrels on this Presidio…what could be easier??!?
 8)

Offline King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2023, 10:07:06 PM »
Don't rely on what Mike's book say's your bore is, slug it yourself to be sure. Personally I wouldn't use Pyrodex either. Powder Valley has Swiss FF in stock, get that. https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/swiss-black-powder-2fg-1/
I don't know how to change a barrel, but I'm betting just swapping barrels isn't to be just that simple. Keep us updated.
King Medallion

Offline DrummerBoy

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Re: All Four
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2023, 01:22:39 AM »
King, Thanks for the note! I’m sure you are correct in thinking I’m just at the tip of the iceberg! Please excuse my cavalier way of addressing these issues, it’s my way of whistling in the dark!
Semper Fi,
Fred
PS if anyone knows how the thread design on a Uberti 1876 barrel base compares with the Winchester original please sound off!

Offline King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2023, 04:18:28 AM »
Pretty sure uberti barrel threads are metric and will not interchange with Winchester. What length of barrel did you get? The Presidio is a 20" barrel, and will likely not line up with a 28" stock or tube connections. Something to measure before you take off the barrel.
King Medallion

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: All Four
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2023, 01:51:49 PM »
At this point I’ve managed to get ahold of two Cimarron carbines in 45-60 and 50-95, and just now TWO 28” BARRELS on 40-60 and 45-75…I got the barrels because I want all four calibers (curses on you and your book, Duke Venturino!!) but guns in 40-60 and 45-75 seem to have dried up. I need a plan for this…
Semper Fi
Fred

DrummerBoy,
During a conversation with a friend on this same topic, he brought up another factor in these types of reworks.  That is ... you will need the specific caliber brass lifters for each respective barrel.  Or you will have to cut a smaller caliber lifter to the larger 45-75 casing.

Hope this helps.
Black River Smith

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Re: All Four
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2023, 04:08:48 PM »
DrummerBoy,
During a conversation with a friend on this same topic, he brought up another factor in these types of reworks.  That is ... you will need the specific caliber brass lifters for each respective barrel.  Or you will have to cut a smaller caliber lifter to the larger 45-75 casing.

Hope this helps.
Well your friend was wrong in the case of the '76.  All calibers use the same carrier (and breech bolt).  In the case of the '73 then yes, there are two carriers (disregarding the .22), one for .357 and .32, and one for .38-40 and larger, plus the bolt is different for large and small bore as well.

When in doubt, check the parts lists at VTIgunparts.com

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: All Four
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2023, 04:41:12 PM »
Abilene,

So, you are saying that a 40-60 casing in a 50-95 lifter would not flop around and chamber easily or that a 50-95 casing would not be too large in diameter to fit in a 40-60 lifter?

PS -- I did try a 40-60 casing in my 45-60 lifter, it did fit; did not float around a lot; and did feed.  But this was gentle movements.
Black River Smith

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Re: All Four
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2023, 06:35:29 PM »
Abilene,

So, you are saying that a 40-60 casing in a 50-95 lifter would not flop around and chamber easily or that a 50-95 casing would not be too large in diameter to fit in a 40-60 lifter?

PS -- I did try a 40-60 casing in my 45-60 lifter, it did fit; did not float around a lot; and did feed.  But this was gentle movements.

Hi BRS, no I'm not really saying that it won't flop around.  I have no idea, it might.  But Uberti does use the same carrier for all '76's.  I don't know if original Winchesters were the same size (some did have the caliber stamped on the bottom of the carrier but I don't know if the sizes were different).  Just like Winchester used a smaller carrier for 32-20 (of course they did not make a .38/.357 so they still only made two sizes, one for .32-20 and one for the larger calibers) with the '73 but Uberti uses the .38/.357 carrier for the .32's and they do flop!  They feed fine, though, except for the first round (last round loaded) which is often at quite an angle and needs to be straightened.

Offline DrummerBoy

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Re: All Four
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2023, 07:35:41 PM »
Gentlemen,
I am very grateful for all the feedback!! I have studied the exploded drawing and accompanying parts list extensively (extensively for me…) and spoken on the phone with the nice fellow at VTI…I didn’t notice any alternative carriers in the same presentation as the drawing that indicated four barrels, but I don’t have any idea who created the drawing/list I was looking at..what I was hoping for was an order number for part number “1”….the receiver/frame! Well, it seems that Uberti won’t sell that particular part.  Maybe I can print one for a ghost 76 LOL!!

In other news I made a stab at determining the rate of twist in the barrels I have..I loaded up a cleaning rod with patches and put a duct tape flag on..shoved it in till I got a  quarter turn ( x4..) …now in all 4 barrels I got a quarter turn in 6 inches more or less…I did this several times with each barrel and the result was more or less the same…this “data” ,such as it is, is quite different in some cases from what’s published…I can’t be too far off in my method cause I did 3 or 4 swipes on each barrel ant the flag started turning smoothly right away…..

Offline Roosterman

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Re: All Four
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2023, 09:37:03 AM »
I measured the twist in my 40 60 a couple weeks ago and it's 1 in 22. I believe all of these uberti '76's are all twisted far faster than the originals...not sure why they would do that.
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Offline King Medallion

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Re: All Four
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2023, 10:09:18 AM »
So we can shoot heavier bullets.
King Medallion

 

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