Author Topic: A terrific looking USFA.  (Read 2282 times)

Offline Dave T

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2022, 10:57:37 AM »
Sure would like to hear Garry's take on all this. After all, he was there.

Dave

Offline CraigC

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2022, 08:23:34 PM »
You can call, ask for Lou and ask him. The word from the horse's mouth is that they did not buy USFA's machinery. Not that it really  matters.

I don't care how many guns you've worked on. If you conclude that the Uberti parts USFA's and the domestic parts USFA's are all the same, your "opinion" is highly suspect. Yes, I will flat-out call you out. Anyone who has owned and disassembled both should be able to plain see and feel the difference.

USFA's were not overpriced. In fact, they were underpriced. They were too good for their price point. People scoffed at paying Colt money for something that was not a Colt but they were easily head and shoulders above anything Colt ever produced. Look at the Freedom Arms guns for example. All stainless steel, no period correct finish work, $3000 to start. The domestic USFA's are machined and finished 'that' good. If you disagree, you either need your eyes checked, you're not being honest or you have an agenda. USFA is the reason why Colt upped their game. If they were all just a gussied up Uberti, they wouldn't have had to bother. This is just silly.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2022, 06:07:08 PM »

Well, here is the kicker there Craig.  I have in fact owned, disassembled, worked on and tuned both.  All manner of USFA offerings.  I have never in fact made any claim they were other than Very Fine guns.  They were, while in production, and they are, now not in production, Very Fine Guns.  That is a given.  They also had Warts.  That is a fact. 

Now I'll repeat myself, at their price point, the guns should have been "right" right out of the box.  They wern't.  Unless the intended purpose for ownership is simply to place them in a safe and fondle 'em once in a while.

Your prime displeasure seems to be taking great umbrage at my descriptive terminology.  Sorry, but I don't make apology for that.  Your have in fact, placed the "Apple of Your Eye" on such a high pedestal you're blinded by simple reality.  You're comparison with a limited production, niche market specialty item is ludicrous.

I will agree though, This is just silly.  We could go round and round for a decade and not budge.  Let's just give it a rest, shall we.

Have Fun Out There

Offline CraigC

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2022, 02:29:40 PM »
I'm not going to participate if my posts are going to be deleted without explanation.

Suffice to say, you're the only person I've EVER heard say that the Uberti parts guns and the domestic guns were all the same. I know that I don't agree with you and don't know of anyone else who does. 99.99% will say just the opposite. The early guns were indeed just gussied up Uberti's. The machine work, the specs, the polishing, virtually everything about the later guns is not just better but measurably better and that is why people pay more for them. Otherwise, we'd just buy new Uberti's, send them to Turnbull for refinishing and save ourselves time and money.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2022, 06:47:38 AM »

 :)  WELL BYE  ;)

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #25 on: Today at 03:21:32 PM »

Offline Blackpowder Burn

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2022, 09:09:54 PM »
Well, I remember the USFA website stating that their SAA's were built to original Colt blueprints - with the sole exception that the cylinder was 0.020" larger diameter for a little added strength.  And parts were interchangeable with Colt.  I haven't had to do any repairs on my 4 USFA single actions, so I don't know about that.  What I do know is that the limited number of Lightning rifles were exact copies of the Colt Lightnings.  I have a USFA Lightning.  Later I bought a Colt Lightning that was a wall-hanger, missing quite a few parts.  I bought the missing parts from USFA and they were drop-in for the Colt.  And now it is a shooter again!  ;D

I know prices escalated toward the end on USFA, but I bought 2 premiums (44 WCF) for $875 each, with Longhunter tuning included.  Both are beautiful guns and great shooters.  I later bought 2 Rodeo's (45 Colt), again tuned by Longhunter for $575 each.  All are hugely superior to the Uberti and Pietta's I own.  I regularly kick myself in the posterior for not buying a pair of 32-20's back then.

SUBLYME AND HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT
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Offline russ1943

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2022, 04:56:43 AM »
:)  Well Hi DaveT  ;)

Ok, let me see.  Way back in the beginning, USPFA began existence, using imported Uberti Major parts and assemblies, a well as functional internals, final finished and assembled here.  Very Fine finishing indeed.  Really fine guns.

Then, USFA sourced their own machine tools and CNC and began making their parts "in house."  It didn't happen over night, but it did in fact happen.  ALL USA parts is a FACT.  But, here is the rub:

The CNC and Machine tools were set-up and programed to produce parts of the exact same dimensions as the previously imported Uberti Parts.  So, if you will, USFA became a CLONE of Uberti.  Very well made CLONE of Uberti.  Hence, my descriptive of "Gussied-Up Uberti."  Duplicated to the point I use to mix and match Uberti parts as "drop in" and "bolt on."

Now, let us add to the story.  You wanna guess where the USFA machine tools went??  Complete with imbedded CNC programming??

I see where you are coming from, but my 2 USA made guns, the Uberti cylinder from Navy Arms Cattlemen does not fit into the frame.  The frame is too small.   Yet a Colt 2nd generation fits into them, perfectly.  The timing is perfect.  What gives?  I do not know. Maybe someone can answer. 

Offline Abilene

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2022, 10:05:59 AM »
I see where you are coming from, but my 2 USA made guns, the Uberti cylinder from Navy Arms Cattlemen does not fit into the frame.  The frame is too small.   Yet a Colt 2nd generation fits into them, perfectly.  The timing is perfect.  What gives?  I do not know. Maybe someone can answer.
First time I have heard of this.  Very interesting.

Offline RRio

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2022, 11:34:42 AM »


USFA's were not overpriced. In fact, they were underpriced. They were too good for their price point. People scoffed at paying Colt money for something that was not a Colt but they were easily head and shoulders above anything Colt ever produced. Look at the Freedom Arms guns for example. All stainless steel, no period correct finish work, $3000 to start. The domestic USFA's are machined and finished 'that' good. If you disagree, you either need your eyes checked, you're not being honest or you have an agenda.


333 N. XXXXXXX St.
Mesa, AZ  85207
Feb. 27, 2004



Doug Donnelly
United States Fire Arms Mfg. Co.
55 Van Dyke Ave.
Hartford, CT 06106

Dear Mr. Donnelly,

Recently, I purchased my second Single Action Army in .45 Colt and I am very pleased with it. I have said since buying my first SAA, that having a USFA was like having a brand new first generation Colt. It is in my opinion, the finest single action revolver made. I still stand by that.

I have been doing action work on Colts SAAs and replicas since 1978, and attribute a lot of my skills that I have learned, to Bob James. I believe him to be one of the best SAA specialists in the world. Now to get to the reason I am writing this.
Although I am very pleased with my new USFA, when I started doing the action job on it, I noticed something I have never seen before in any single action, and it caused me great concern. The working (hammer cam) side of the bolt had been what looks like belt sanded for relief. (See photo)

                                  Top View drawing
(actual photo via scanner)


It has been sanded or ground by approximately .015, which is about 1/3 of the thickness of that leg. While I did polished that area highly, I would not be surprised to have bolt failure due to that leg breaking, within 6 months of SASS match shooting. And I can not figure out the reason for it being ground.
Also, I noticed that the hand had been very nicely machined, but could have stood have the sharp edges broken.
I would expect these minor flaws in an Italian Colt replica, I have seen them all too often (with the exception of the ground bolt), but I did not expect to see them in the USFA, especially when the rest of the gun is immaculate.....


This is a copy of a letter that I sent after buying my first USFA. Wanna know what I got in return?
ZILCH, NADA, ZIP, NOTHING. I did not even get acknowledgement of the letter .

So don't try and say there were without flaws. They might not have overprice then, but the prices they are bring now is ridiculous for a gun from a defunct company.
I quit as moderator of this board, (the first for many years, i might add) because I could not believe in USFA after Donnely started experimenting with brown, pink, and blue guns, and then his little "toy" the ZIP gun. He had a good thing going but blew it on his "larks".
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Offline CraigC

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2022, 12:26:27 PM »
Who used the word "flawless"? You're also judging an entire company based on a single example. Run it until it breaks, fit a new bolt and move on.

I disagree on their pricing. They should have always been $2000-$3000. When the friggin' pre-war was $1200, so was a Colt SAA and the USFA was 10x the gun.
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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #30 on: Today at 03:21:32 PM »

Offline Dave T

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2022, 05:06:38 PM »
While I did polished that area highly, I would not be surprised to have bolt failure due to that leg breaking, within 6 months of SASS match shooting.

So you're trashing the whole company and all their guns, based on something you think might happen. Good grief!

I bought a USFA 5-1/2" Gunslinger (I hate that name) a while back. It had the cylinder pin retained by the spring loaded cross pin in what many think of as a "smokeless powder frame" so I thought for the first time out I would shoot Winchester's recommended factory duplication load, 7.1g WW231 behind a 255g soft cast RNFP. At the very first shot what I call the firing pin bushing in the standing breech exploded in a shower of chunks, one zooming by my eye close enough to make me duck (late of course). The primer was gone but the brass around the primer cup had flowed back into the gap where the bushing was. I went through 7 gunsmiths before I found someone who would work on it and they did repair it quite well.

I didn't go on any public forum and trash USFA for the lousy firing pin bushing they used on that gun. I have 7 USFA single action revolvers. They are my favorite firearms and I shoot black powder through them regularly. I find them superior to the small collection of 1st Generation Colts I owned 25+ some years ago.


Dave

Offline RRio

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2022, 05:37:22 PM »
Who used the word "flawless"? You're also judging an entire company based on a single example. Run it until it breaks, fit a new bolt and move on.


On a brand new gun??    I think not. I did have to refit a new bolt, no thanks to USFA. And no, i wasn't judging an entire company based on a single example. He owned the replica market but blew it with his larks. Tell me I am wrong about that.
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Offline CraigC

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2022, 08:43:36 PM »
USFA ended how he wanted it to. Good, bad or indifferent, it was his choice. IMHO, this happened mostly because they were underpriced. It's kinda funny it's taken this long for the critics to come out of the woodwork.  ::)

I thought for two seconds about denying myself the pleasure of one of my USFA's over a part that I could easily replace.......and laughed.
Graveyard Jack SASS #81,827

Offline Major 2

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2022, 06:22:16 AM »
Price: $7,750.00     still available   ;)
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Pangaea

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2022, 06:06:11 PM »
I had a very good friend who died from a heart attack a little over 20 years ago.  He and I were at a gun show when he came across a silversmith who had a small powder flask for priming the flash pan on a flintlock.  It was 75.00.  He would not buy it even though I did my best to convince him to purchase it.  When I questioned his reason for not buying it (and he could very well afford it) he told me it was about “solvency”.  After he died I always referred to him as the most solvent dead man I ever knew.  My point being, why must someone be criticized for paying “too much” for anything.  Life is way too short to deny yourself something you can afford just because of a perceived high price.  Just my two cents worth.

Offline Major 2

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2022, 07:23:24 AM »
 You have a point, if its " something you can afford"

That is why, people pay 2 & 3 + times the retail to be the "first on their block"

Currently, Ford's new Bronco is in that category, the newest wowzah Corvette is too;)
 and maybe the Chrysler HELLCAT.

Guys are paying a premium for Springfield's new SA-35 just to have one...

There is no doubt, Charlie Heston got paid royalties for his name on the limited edition, and 'ol Doug Turnbull was paid well for a premium finished prototype.

All in all, makes that gun a COMMEMORATIVE DELUXE MODEL.

your point IF it's " something you can afford"

My point,... It is still available  :o


when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2022, 06:17:58 PM »

I've just never been able to wrap my head around the "High End" guns even when the High End guns were just "High End."  Pay that kind of money and still need a serious bit of action work to make 'em ready for our game.

I also never understood "Collectors" who put perfectly good guns in the back of a safe, never to see the light of day again.  At least those guys like Yahoody take their special toys out and played with 'em.

I suppose, for those who see obscene sums of money for some, yes, really cool guns, as pocket change, never playing with 'em is OK.  I once had a chance to pick up a matching set of engraved, Silver Plated early second generation colts at what was a reasonable price.  When I told the fella who had them on his table, I was going to do an action job, some good springs and shoot 'em CAS, He pulled them back and said "not for sale."  Seemed kinda dumb at the time.  Annoying as all get out too.

Play Safe Out There

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2022, 08:01:20 PM »
USFA ended how he wanted it to. Good, bad or indifferent, it was his choice.

Interestingly, my prior post was silently deleted  ::)
I would have appreciated the courtesy of a PM, we are all adults here, and the BOSS does not condone censorship.

USFA ended because Beretta, new owner of Uberti (Uberti became owned by   Benelli, part of the Beretta holding company )
ended the relationship which allowed USFA to use the Uberti proprietary CNC software/design code.

So, without the Single Action business to pay the bills, Donally was pretty much hamstrung.

Sad, because I was saving up for a pair of Rodeos and a short barrled Omnipotent.
Not gonna happen at current prices, the value simply isn't there for what they are.

yhs
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Editted -
Terribley sorry, I should not be posting with a fever  :o
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Offline Abilene

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2022, 08:08:46 PM »
...USFA ended because Beretta, new owner of Uberti (Uberti became owned by   Benelli, part of the Beretta holding company )
ended the relationship which allowed USFA to use the Uberti proprietary CNC software/design code....

I've never heard this before.  Interesting.

Offline Major 2

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Re: A terrific looking USFA.
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2022, 08:36:59 PM »
At Shot 07 I talked to Donnally in regard to the then new planned Remington 75 ....
He had a Uberti rough forged frame, and another one CNC machined in house.
I saw a finished gun in a Plexiglas display case. 

It was a 3 way deal he said, Remington would be on board (name) USFA and Uberti

He was livid, when Beretta pulled the plug, Remington dropped out that doomed the Remington revolver project.



 

when planets align...do the deal !

 

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