Shield front shirts

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Greeting All,

Can anyone tell me if during the Indian Wars Cavalry Officers that wore shield front shirts had their rank straps on their shirts

If they did, where did they position them ??

Thanks for your help.

Marshal J.D.Lightning
Provost Marshal. US Cavalry
GAF
BOSS #82
SASA #2528

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, J.D.!

I don't believe so.

The shield front shirt was NEVER issued to the troops.  However, it was a very popular shirt at the time and when the troops went out to the field the non-regulation shirts were often overlooked by the higher brass.  The few wives at the Fort would often supplement their income by sewing these shirts (and other items) or they could be sometimes bought from the Sutler.  I've never seen any photos of these shirts with epaulets (sp?) or officer's boards affixed, but it would not be out of the realm of possibility.

[Dakota Dan from OZ]

Marshal J.D. Lightning

Good to see you on the wire. Why not come and join us on CAS Downunder.

Dakota Dan from OZ

[Advertising]

[Dakota Dan from OZ]

Hey J.D.

You and the family coming to the CASS christmas party ?

Dakota Dan from OZ

[US Scout]

Steel Horse Bailey is quite correct.

Shield front shirts, also called fireman's shirts, were very popular on the frontier.  The "shield" provided an extra layer of insulation.  Since many campaigns were conducted in the winter, that was a plus.

No insignia, shoulder straps or chevrons, were worn on the shirt until very late in the 19th century. 

There wasn't much reason to do so - men knew who their NCOs and officers were, and if they didn't they soon learned. 

US Scout
Bvt Col of Marines

[St. George]

During the time frame you're asking about - that of the Indian Wars - the Frontier Army was a small one.

Men knew the others in their units - most especially their leadership - by the way they walked or stood or sat a horse and the voices of their Commanders was also well-known to them, as it was the primary method of communication during operations.

There was no need for visible rank insignia - the 'John Ford Reference Library' notwithstanding.

They look 'good' in the movies - in actuality - epaulets get caught on everything.

The Officer would soon tire of that unpleasant aspect - as was done during the Civil War - and adopt a more comfortable Campaign uniform.

In researching the period, the Army 'specifically' allowed the wearing of shirts without the coat in the field during the Spanish-American War - authorizing Officers to wear rank on their collars in July of 1898.

That shirts were worn for years on campaign was of no consequence - the Army addressed the issue after the Indian Wars had come to a close.

The issue shirt at that time was a Dark Blue pullover featuring three hard rubber buttons and two buttoned pockets on the chest - first issued in 1883.

The 'Fireman's Shirt' or 'Shield Shirt' was a popular item across the length and breadth of the West, and was available 'in town' or at the Sutler's.

It was unauthorized - and wasn't 'seen' unless on Campaign.

Scouts Out!

[Grapeshot]

The above information is correct.  Shoulder boards on the shirts of any kind were not worn except in the movies.  But if you got to go that route, get a WahMaker bib front in Navy Blue and a pair of shoulder boards matching your character and afix them on the inboard seam of the shoulder.

My suggestion is to wear the shirt and get your spouse, girlfriend or friendly tailor or seamstress to mark the shirt where you want them with tailor's chalk and sew them tightly in place.  If you can find the kind that are removeable, then sew the staples in place so the metal tabs hold the shoulder boards in place.

Don't forget to change all the buttons to the brass eagle type with your branch initial embossed in the shield on the eagles chest.

Take a look at my avatar for a sample.

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Thanks Everyone for all your help again.

Howdy Dakota, I always check out the CAS-Australia site, usually before I come to this site. I can't make the Christmas party this year as duty calls again !!!

Take care, have fun & shoot straight

[Texas Tall]

Hey there J.D.,Nice to see you at CAS CITY,enjoy yourself looking around and meeting these friendly folks.
Shame you and your wife and kids can't make the CAS party but will catch up soon.
Regards..............Texas Tall.
 GSC 002

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Texas Tall

It's always good to hear from you. I'm sorry that we can't make the CAS Christmas party too. I hope you & the family are all well.

Take care of yourself my Friend & see you soon.

All the best.

[Gen Lew Wallace]

While not very accurate, I wear a modified version of the shirt for when I'm doing some shooting and I don't want to be hampered by a sack coat or shell jacket.  I just went to the local Tractor Supply and picked up a blue Dickies work shirt and sewed a pair of shoulder boards on.  Like I said, it's not accurate in the least bit when addressing authenticity, but it does allow me to shoot unencumbered and gives me the John Ford cavalry movie look. 

[US Scout]

This brings up a good point - GAF does allow the Hollywood or John Ford interpretation of a frontier military uniform where stripes and shoulder boards are worn on the shirt.

US Scout
GAF Chief of Staff

[ColonelFlashman]

Steel Horse Bailey is quite correct.

Shield front shirts, also called fireman's shirts, were very popular on the frontier.  The "shield" provided an extra layer of insulation.  Since many campaigns were conducted in the winter, that was a plus.

No insignia, shoulder straps or chevrons, were worn on the shirt until very late in the 19th century. 

There wasn't much reason to do so - men knew who their NCOs and officers were, and if they didn't they soon learned. 

US Scout
Bvt Col of Marines

It wasn't till the 1902 Regs & Gen Orders that Autherized the wearing of Any kind of Insignia on the Field Shirt, w/ insignia for NCO's on the Sleeves & Officer's on the Collar. Shoulder Boards were being Phased out for Field use.

[ColonelFlashman]

Greeting All,

Can anyone tell me if during the Indian Wars Cavalry Officers that wore shield front shirts had their rank straps on their shirts

If they did, where did they position them ??

Thanks for your help.

Marshal J.D.Lightning
Provost Marshal. US Cavalry
GAF
BOSS #82
SASA #2528

The proper term is "Plastron", it's borrowed from the Lancers Tunic, Fire Brigades borrowed it for extra protection while fighting fires & Outdoorsmen did the same for added warmth.
Picture those Bulky Shoulder Boards being worn on a Field Shirt by an Officer & then later he disides to throw on his Campaign Coat or Field Blouse, then having difficulty pulling the bleedin' thing on 'cause of those Boards are in the way & then being rather uncomfortable after struggling to shrug into it 'cause Now those Boards are Digging into his Shoulders.
As for the Fireman's Shirt, there are literally Thousands upon thousands of Pix from this era of Officers & Men wearing them in the Field & in posed Studio Protrates, but I've yet to have viewed one w/ Rank Insignia on Any field shirts untill after 1902.
It's a "Hollywood" thing started by Director John Ford during the '30s & was Not done in the Field for the Above reason as well as the fact the it wasn't in the Regs & G.O. @ that time.

[ColonelFlashman]

During the time frame you're asking about - that of the Indian Wars - the Frontier Army was a small one.
Men knew the others in their units - most especially their leadership - by the way they walked or stood or sat a horse and the voices of their Commanders was also well-known to them, as it was the primary method of communication during operations.
There was no need for visible rank insignia - the 'John Ford Reference Library' notwithstanding.
They look 'good' in the movies - in actuality - epaulets get caught on everything.
The Officer would soon tire of that unpleasant aspect - as was done during the Civil War - and adopt a more comfortable Campaign uniform.
In researching the period, the Army 'specifically' allowed the wearing of shirts without the coat in the field during the Spanish-American War - authorizing Officers to wear rank on their collars in July of 1898.
That shirts were worn for years on campaign was of no consequence - the Army addressed the issue after the Indian Wars had come to a close.
The issue shirt at that time was a Dark Blue pullover featuring three hard rubber buttons and two buttoned pockets on the chest - first issued in 1883.
The 'Fireman's Shirt' or 'Shield Shirt' was a popular item across the length and breadth of the West, and was available 'in town' or at the Sutler's.
It was unauthorized - and wasn't 'seen' unless on Campaign.
Scouts Out!

Before that the Issue Field Shirt was Grey flannel w/ or w/o a Collar, w/ or w/o Pockets.
Rank & Service Branch for Officer's & NCO's were distinguished by the Width & Colour of the Stripe on the Outside Seem upon the Trowser legs.
So there was No need for any extra insignia to be worn upon the Field Shirt when the Commanding Officer or NCO autherized the Troops to shed their Shell Jackets, 4 or 5 Buttons Blouses in the Field while on Campaign or while on a Duty such as a Wooding Cutting Party securing wood for the Forts stock pile.