Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => NCOWS => Topic started by: Rowdy Fulcher on December 25, 2010, 11:32:15 AM
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Howdy Pards
I am looking for some Rifle loads for a 1873 (Uberti } the smokeless loads I have found are Cowboy loads and are mostly wimp loads .
I was wanting the smokeless loads to duplicate the original Black Powder velocity only, not trying to reinvent the 44 mag . ??? ??? ??? Wanting to run about 1300 fps max and a min of 1225 I found a load (Mike V ) of 18.0 H4227 under a 200 grain bullet but didn't like it .
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Rowdy; Ken Waters PET LOADS has a number of choices, but I am away from my Library, visiting the Grandgirls for Christmas.
His choice was Unique.
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Have an old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (1973) that list a number of loads for a 205 gr. cast bullet, in the range you're looking for. These were rifle loads.
1.Red Dot 8.0 gr @ 1225 fps
2.Green Dot 8.3 gr @ 1230
3.Unique 10.5 gr @ 1355
4.700X 8.0 gr @ 1270
MAX Loads
Hope this helps
Merry Christmas
Ringo
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Rowdy:
I have had good luck with Unique in 44 WCF and 38 WCF. The newer Lyman books show lower loads than in the previous post. I am not sure if new Unique is hotter than the 70-73 books or if the company has lawyered up.
T-Joe
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Unique will make em cook and my 73 loves em.
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Rowdy,
I've got my Pet Loads "Bible" right in front of me. Mr. Waters has his .44wcf data divided into Group 1 for weaker actions(winchester 73), and Group 2 for stronger actions(winchester 92). He does have 18.0 gr. of 4227 listed as his most accurate cast bullet load, but he of course wasn't shooting your rifle! In the Group one loads for both cast and jacketed bullets he lists 9.0 gr. of Unique to be accurate/excellent loads. You didn't mention if you were using cast or jacketed bullets, but it looks like Unique should be a good choice with either one. Are you planning on pokin a hole in a critter with that cowboy gun? The MV for both the cast and jacketed loads was 1250fps. from a 24" original 92 rifle.
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I have to agree with Unique being a good candidate. I have run mine up to 8.5 gr., but I suspect a little more is possible. In cartridges of the world 12th edition they list old data as 11.1 gr Unique over a 200 gr SP for 1125 fps and 550 fp/e. That seems a bit high tho :o
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Howdy Pards
I am trying to work up a Hunting load . I have cast bullets and jacketed bullets . I am working with Unique at 9.0 and will test fire them today . I fired some over the chronie yesterday using 8.6 of Unique and it did GOOD . I also tried the H4227 with 18.0 grains and didn't care for it . The velocities were in the 1150 fps range and lots of unburned powder .
I want to Thank everyone for all the data and advice .
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Rowdy, Just a suggestion, I have been using 5.2 grains of Hodgen clays (Steel Horse Bailey's recipe) in my 45 colt loads for my brother, a friend, myself For several years now, for NCOWS shooting. We don't care for wimp loads. They ring the steels with authority. They are consistent, clean,& powerful. They hunt with them with confidence. The same load should be fine for 44wcf.. again Just a suggestion. Jed
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Rowdy, Just a suggestion, I have been using 5.2 grains of Hodgen clays (Steel Horse Bailey's recipe) in my 45 colt loads for my brother, a friend, myself For several years now, for NCOWS shooting. We don't care for wimp loads. They ring the steels with authority. They are consistent, clean,& powerful. They hunt with them with confidence. The same load should be fine for 44wcf.. again Just a suggestion. Jed
Jed.......I got's-ta know.......what is the dia & weight of yer booolit ya load'n in yer 45 Long Colt......in front of that 5.2 gr of Clays... ??? ??? ???
I use Clays in my 357 too (I call 'em Hornets...5gr behind 158 gr RNFP...just under SASS speed limit) and I was wonder'n what to use in my newly acquired Bisley 45 Long Colts... I thank you and Steel Horse Bailey..... ;D ;)
Yeti76620
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Pards I have been using clays for years in my cowboy loads, 200 grain 44/40 bullet over 4.9 grains of clays. In 200 grain 45 colt with 4.8 grains of clays. The 44/40 is a good one, the 45 colt is milder. Also used 4.9 grains of red dot for the same 44/40 load. Would think the load that Ringo posted for red dot would be plenty powerful. Have a good hunt Rowdy. Tj
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I use that 9.0 gr. UNIQUE in my '73 short rifle, and OMVs. RCBS .44 - 200 FP (210gr.) at 1250 fps in the rifle. Sighted in for 75yds, it is 1.6 " high at 40 yards and only 3.5 - 4.0 ' low at 100 yards. Bal coef. 1.62 and 500 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards
http://www.handloads.com/calc/
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Howdy Pards
I went and choreographed the load of 9.2 grains of Unique and a Meister 200 gr. in a .429 bullet .
1. 1433 fps
2. 1447 fps
3. 1418 fps
These were only the 9.2 load so there is no way I would use the 10.5 loads in my 1873 no way . And there is another load I found calling for a 10.9 grain load , but it's for the Colt ?? handgun
These rounds were fired from a 24 inch barrel on a 31 degree day ,wonder what they would do on a 90+ degree day .
will try a 8.9 load and see what they do ???
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Howdy Pards
I went and choreographed the load of 9.2 grains of Unique and a Meister 200 gr. in a .429 bullet .
1. 1433 fps
2. 1447 fps
3. 1418 fps
These were only the 9.2 load so there is no way I would use the 10.5 loads in my 1873 no way . And there is another load I found calling for a 10.9 grain load , but it's for the Colt ?? handgun
These rounds were fired from a 24 inch barrel on a 31 degree day ,wonder what they would do on a 90+ degree day .
will try a 8.9 load and see what they do ???
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hey Rowdy, any chance we could get a demonstration on YouTube? ;)
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6.2 grains of Titegroup with a 200 grain cast RNFP will put you real close to 1300fps. Good load in a 73. :)
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I agree with Grizzly, I used Unique for over 30 years in 45 Colt. When I got a chronograph I found 100 fps difference between muzzle up and muzzle down. I tried Titegroup and there was virtually no difference no matter how I held the muzzle. I have used Titegroup ever since. I suggest going to the Hodgdon'a web site and see what they say.
Will Ketchum
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Howdy Pards
Thanks for all the data . I will try the titegroup when I pick up a pound . At present I have the Unique and the H 4227
When the weather get better ,warmer and no wind . Will try these loads in my Rifle and Pistol .I hope to get the velocities the same as Black Powder loads .
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Jed.......I got's-ta know.......what is the dia & weight of yer booolit ya load'n in yer 45 Long Colt......in front of that 5.2 gr of Clays... ??? ??? ???
I use Clays in my 357 too (I call 'em Hornets...5gr behind 158 gr RNFP...just under SASS speed limit) and I was wonder'n what to use in my newly acquired Bisley 45 Long Colts... I thank you and Steel Horse Bailey..... ;D ;)
Yeti76620
I'm using Lazer cast silver boolits 250 gr. .454 I have not chrono these. But they hit hard, shoot well, and are very consistent. Jed
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What is this "smokeless" stuff you guy's are talking about? Is this something new?
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James, It's some kind of new powder. If some one is shooting at you, well you can't see the white smoke to tell where the shot is coming from. I don't think it will ever catch on though. Tj :D
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It ain't even any good to season your beefsteak with! :-\
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Blackpowder or smokeless, I applaud Rowdy for wanting to breath new life into an old cartridge.
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Howdy Pards
I am trying to get a smokeless load to duplicate my black powder loads . But most of the smokeless data is pretty WIMPY loads .
I am working with Unique Powder and it looks to be the load .Hope to fire them tomorrow if it's not pouring down rain . I have a couple days off and hope to camp and Hunt . Hope to put a hurt on the coyote population . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's tough to be a Vintage Hunter .
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Howdy Pards
Got a chance to shoot the loads over a chronie the first load came in at 1.1346 2. 1314 3. 1386 these were smokin HOT so I fired the second load and it was where I wanted 1.1251 fps 2. 1273 fps 3. 1240 fps I was using Unique powder and the difference in these loads was only .4 grains not even a half of grain ???
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Smokeless! Huh, is technology something or what! What will they think of next? At this rate we are going to be walking on the moon someday - OK, maybe that is a stretch.
But I have one concern with this smokeless stuff. How can we keep criminals from using this? I mean if we can't see them how is law enforcement going to shoot them? I sense a need for some government action here, perhaps a background check or a license. Then again, do normal citizen's really need this, it is not really a hunting powder after all! We need a new agency, yeah that is what we need, more bureaucracy to protect the public from unauthorized smokeless use.
Does Chuck Schumer know about this stuff yet?
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Howdy Pards
I was able to go shooting today . The wind was blowing and it was cold . I shot some groups at 50 yards and they were decent ,but not what I want . I want to put 3 shots in a nice small clover leaf group . I am satisfied with my powder weight , the 8.5 grains of Unique is working good .
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Have you tried different bullets with this load, i.e. .424/.427? Maybe a slight tweak is all that you need now...
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Have you tried different bullets with this load, i.e. .424/.427? Maybe a slight tweak is all that you need now...
The largest that will chamber. Recall the old mantra for cast bullets;- .001 over groove diameter.
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My 44-40 rifles are more forgiving than my revolvers regarding bullet diametrs, so I use .428 diameter.
IMO, relatively soft bullets are best, even with the modern powder given the relatively low velocity. I home-cast mine...a flat base is generally better as well. Might try some 225 grain bullets.
Regards,
Slim
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Rowdy, I use 6.5 grains unique or 21 grains APP in my 44/40s . I have a Henry and a 66 Ubertis and an original 73
all weak actions so I never loaded anything hot. I use the sharps if I need some serious power. Sounds cool if you
could get a coyote with the 73 good luck!!!
BTB
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BTB
Them Coyotes are crafty critters .Make you feel like Elmer Fudd I HATE those silly Coyotes . ;D ;D ;D
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[The following load is posted for the interest and curiosity of readers and is NOT intended as a recommendation for use in any other guns but my own. I CAN ASSUME NOT LIABILITY FOR ACCIDENTS OR INJURIES RESULTING FROM THE USE OF THIS DATA!Usual disclaimer.]
I have almost since starting CAS shooting used 8.0 grains of Hodgdon's UNIVERSAL...NOT CLAYS, although Hodgdon's has made IMHO a mistake in using the word "Clays" in conjunction with "Universal". Universal is very close to Unique in burning rate. Plain "Clays" is near Bullseye in burning rate. This load of 8.0 gr. is GREATER than the maximum shown by Hodgdon's for this powder, however, a hotter load is shown for 250 gr. bullets in .45 LC.
This load is used behind a 213.5 gr. hard-cast commercial bullet. I have fired about 3,000 rounds through a Navy Arms M1860 Military Henry replica (toggle-link action), with no noticable increase in headspace measurement. (Note that I seldom shoot this rifle nowadays, simply because it is quite heavy...NOT because I am retiring it from wear. This load runs around 1173-1210 ft/sec from the 24-inch barrel, depending on air temperature.
CAUTION: You CAN DOUBLE CHARGE A .44-40 case with UNIVERSAL, and the results would be serious, perhaps catastrophic! I use Winchester brass, and have gotten 20+ reloads from the brass, fired in both the Henry and M1892 Winchester clones.
This load produces 950 ft/sec from Old Model Ruger Vaqueros that have .425" throats and the bullets are .430" dia. I have not run pressure tests on this load due to lack of a gun that I can get a strain gage on for the Oehler M43 PBL, as my guns are stainless, and that is tough to get a strain gage to stick to.
I recommend dropping to 7.0 grains and working up using a chronograph.
Ride CAREFUL, Pard!
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Rowdy,
As far as powders go, you might try Western's Blackhorn 209. It loads the same (volume) as blackpowder, has smoke like
blackpowder, is not sensitive to moisture, and cleans like smokeless--ie--with solvent not water. I don't have a chronograph, but they claim increased velocity over blackpowder. The only drawback you will find, I think, is the price. But for hunting loads when you aren't shooting a bunch, I would say that it will do the job. I have used it in my rolling block (43 spanish) and have loaded 45 colt and 357 magnums. It's nice to see the smoke and not the clean up chores.
Let me know what you think.
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so were do i find the factory recomned pressure spec on my rifle & or ruger 44-40
wanting a hot hunting load in smokless for the 1866 & can use in the ruger's also
dont need any stretched brass
year before last shot a doe with 1866 200 g lead full case of 2 f disapointed with results
looking for more
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year before last shot a doe with 1866 200 g lead full case of 2 f disapointed with results
looking for more
Try the same volume of FFFg for approximately the factory duplication load. Use the softest cast lead you can for game.
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Howdy Pards
The load I came up with works Great . According to the computer program If I sight it in at 10 yards it will be be dead on at 86 yards . ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Howdy
The smokeless loads are loaded and waiting for Wiley Coyote . I have a load that should be the equivalent to the black powder loads . That way my rifle will shoot the same with either ammo . BTW there are several loads for the 44wcf that is way to hot for the toggle link actions , they are for the 92 action which will handle the hotter loads . make sure the loads are for the 73 ,66 or Henry .
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Howdy Pards
After working with various loads of Unique I have finally found it . It came in at 1240 fps . This is a accurate and Healthy load .
8.0 grains of Unique Has anyone used this load ?????
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..........8.0 grains of Unique Has anyone used this load ?????
I recall off-hand that that is a rather long-standing full-power load recommendation for Unique & many "cowboy" cartridges of similar bullet weight/case capacity. It's listed in one of my old ideal loading manuals (actually they go significantly higher, which I suspect is data better suited for 1892 rifles).
I've tried it, but nothing special compared to other loads I've used.....and, when I do use smokeless in this caliber, I prefer to keep em fairly weak.
Slim
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Jed.......I got's-ta know.......what is the dia & weight of yer booolit ya load'n in yer 45 Long Colt......in front of that 5.2 gr of Clays... ??? ??? ???
I use Clays in my 357 too (I call 'em Hornets...5gr behind 158 gr RNFP...just under SASS speed limit) and I was wonder'n what to use in my newly acquired Bisley 45 Long Colts... I thank you and Steel Horse Bailey..... ;D ;)
Yeti76620
This posting of Rowdy's is past most hunting for now, but a good load is a good load, no matter the season.
Yeti-man,
That recipe worked very well for me back in the old days :o when I still shot all smokeyless loads in 45 Colt. Now, I'm a BP man 99.9% of the time. (I still love my 1911s, M1, AR, Glockenspiel and 22LR, etc.) Like Jed said, that's pushin' a 250 gr. thumper and sized @ .451" or .452" thru .454" (which is my choice of sizing now, but not when I started and was using commercial cast/swaged bullits.
Trailrider,
You are SO right ... I wonder what those Hodgdon folks were thinking! Clays; Universal Clays. Huh? ??? What's next: Hunting Clays? Shooting Clays? Clays Clays?
Rowdy,
I have a kwest-shun: you started this post asking for a smokeyless load for 44-40 that would mimic the power & velocity of a BP round. A lot of things were suggested, and it seems you've found a winner. GREAT! Good on ya! My question is, what do BP rounds you were trying to duplicate chronograph at? I know that some folks have issues trying to get readings for BP rounds because of the extra powder 'n such blowing over the screens. What was your experience with that? I've only been around a chronograph once when a friend asked me to go along to help test his new Chrony chronograph, about 13 or more years ago. We shot no BP loads that day, but I'll bet YOU have done so.
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Rowdy, Just found this post so I hope this isn't a repeat. John Taffin gave me a load years ago for the 66/73s with Unique that he said was the most accurate load he came up with for the 225 gr. bullet...8.0 gr. Unique, just as you have found with the 200+- bullet. He even has it posted on page 232 of his book, Gun Digest Book of the .44. I have personally used a 9 gr load of Trail Boss with 200 gr. bullets in 44-40 with no adverse affects. HOWEVER, if anyone tries this load w/o working up to it, they are doing so at their own risk. This load in my 66 will thump targets at 600 yds but don't have specs, ie. velocity/energy.
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Steel Horse
The load I am trying to build is in the mid 1200 fps range .The 8.0 grains of Unique puts me there . It still has plenty of thump .This load is chronied from a 24 inch 1873 Uberti .
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Always good to get rid of outdated technology, smokeless is the future. Sure wish you guys could grasp the advantages of this new technology. ;D
Rafe Covington
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Always good to get rid of outdated technology, smokeless is the future. Sure wish you guys could grasp the advantages of this new technology. ;D
Rafe Covington
I think I'm gonna PUKE!! >:( >:(
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I think I'm gonna PUKE!! >:( >:(
It was meant as a joke, go ahead and puke if it makes you happy.
Rafe
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Always good to get rid of outdated technology, smokeless is the future. Sure wish you guys could grasp the advantages of this new technology. ;D
Rafe Covington
Come on, now! SMOKELESS IS JUST A FAD! ;D ;D
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Come on, now! SMOKELESS IS JUST A FAD! ;D ;D
It is my Humble Opinion, that Smokeless Powders are a subterfuge, a stealthy technology developed by Ne'er-do-wells and Ninjas who crave to hide their activities and disguise their firing positions though deception and subterfuge. ::)
To quote the Fictitious Raisuli:
" Men prefer to fight with swords, so they can see each other's eyes! Sometimes, this is not possible. Then, they fight with rifles. The Europeans have guns that fire many times promiscuously and rend the Earth. There is no honor in this - nothing is decided from this."
yhs
prof marvel
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Now that was a good movie, even if it was not a western. Tj
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The good news is we can exceed the velocity of typical safe smokeless loads using BP.... ;D
Slim
Who is unlikely to "puke" due to the wonders of modern medicine.
(Instead, I get to curl up into the fetal position, unabe to speak) :o
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Well I have this to say about that. 44wcf in smokeless or good ole black powder is the best round out there that came from the old west. Can I hear a hear hear? Tj ;D
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Well I have this to say about that. 44wcf in smokeless or good ole black powder is the best round out there that came from the old west. Can I hear a hear hear? Tj ;D
And I am unanimous in that! ;D
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Hear Hear sir! ;D
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Howdy Pards
We all love the 44wcf , and it doesn't matter if your shooting black or smokeless . It's a good round for the cowboy shooter or the Vintage Hunter . Yes we all love the smoke and the boom of the black but sometimes it's just nice to shoot a few rounds of smokeless . Plan on shooting my 1873 Winchester ( Uberti ) today at our camp with both powders . I plan on shooting my USFA pre war in 44wcf . I have a day off from Coal Mining and plan of Shooting a few Guns and yes I will be Shooting my 1876 as well .
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The 44-40 is a great round, I have to agree with that.
I want to apologize for my earlier remark, sometimes I get upset and say things that aren't exactly appropriate for the setting.
Rafe Covington
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Howdy
Got a chance to go shooting . Shot my 1873 and my USFA pre war and my 1876 . The 44wcf loads shot GREAT . My 1876 did an Excellent job also .
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Howdy Pards
Got a chance to do a little shooting today . I have a load with 8.0 grains of Unique and it works great .I have also used Trail Boss and it shoots great . I have fired these loads in my 1873 Winchester (Uberti ) and my Pre War from USFA . Hope to get out early tomorrow and do a little ground hog hunting with my 1873 .
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Howdy
Today I was out shooting and noticed the 8.0 grains of Unique and the Black Hills factory ammo chronograph the same . Don't know what the boys at Black Hills use ,but they have a good load .
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Dang Rowdy, groundhog hunting....used to be a passion when I was younger,,now they are mostly all gone. I think it's cause of the coyotes. I used to hunt'em all the time with a flintlock. Big fun.
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Marshal
Have you shot your 44wcf lately ?
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I've been using 8.0 gr Hodgdon's UNIVERSAL (NOT Clays) over 213.5 gr hard cast bullets for years. MV from a 24" barrel Navy Arms M1860 Henry is 1215 ft/sec. After more than 3,000 rounds I detected NO increase in headspace using gages. From a 20" barrel Rossi M'92, velocities dropped off to 1020 ft/sec, and from 7-1/2" barrel Old Model Vaquero with the .425" throats in the cylinder is around 950 ft/sec.
CAUTION: Watch out for double charge, especially if you load on a progressive press. Roll crimp firmly into a crimp groove and be sure the neck tension is good.
Remember 9/11 and its victims! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! Stay alert! God Bless America!
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Howdy
Deer season is just around the corner . Is your rifle up to the task of shooting past 30 yards ? What's your shot group size at 40 yards ? Does your rifle need a .427 or a .429 diameter bullet ?
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Rowdy,
I know this topic is a little old, but so are our interests, right?
I’ve been playing around with Unique in my Uberti ’73 44WCF. I have a short rifle with a 20 inch barrel, so I expect my velocities to be a bit lower than yours, but they are a little lower than I expected. How much velocity loss should there be with shorter barrels?
I worked my way up to 8 gr. of Unique, which averaged at 1117 fps. It was interesting to note that, if I settled the powder forward in the case before firing, my average was 1040 fps. If I settled the powder to the rear of the case, my average was 1197 fps.
I then tried 8.5 grains. The overall average was1163 fps. (1090 fps with the powder forward and 1235 with the powder to the rear). The velocity difference was apparently on either side of the speed of sound—there was a much louder crack with each shot with the powder settled to the rear.
I was hoping for a load that put me in the 1200 fps range, but I also don’t want to abuse my rifle. There seems to be wide-ranging opinions on what the Ubertis can handle. Does anyone here have an opinion about Unique loads? Can I regularly use 8.5 grains? Does the position sensitivity of the powder seem excessive? As a comparison, I tested some WW231 loads (7.5 grains) and they showed a similar position sensitivity.
I’ve reloaded for many years, but I’m still trying to get a handle on smokeless loads in this caliber.
Thanks.
CC Griff
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CCG
Are you weighing out the powder or using a powder dropper . I have a Lee and the book says the disc is one thing and the actual weight is another . The actual load that I will Hunt with is Unique 8.6 and a 200 grain lead bullet I only shoot a few of them cause I feel for the 1873 action that is Max . Now if it works out I may use Goex Black Dawge ammo if I have the time after Hunting for clean up . Good luck with your load , and keep me posted on your findings .
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I regulate my loads by actual weight. I use the scale to set up the adjustable powder measure, then use the powder measure, periodically double-checking it on the scale. I forgot to mention that my bullets are cast in a mould which nominally produces 205 grain bullets, but mine weigh more like 215.
I'll keep playing and let you know. Thanks for the reply.
CC Griff
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CCG
Have you slugged your bore ? and what is the bullet dia. your shooting ?
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Yes I have slugged the bore. I'm using .429 bullets. I tried some mid-range loads with Red Dot and 700X today to check whether they showed the same position sensitivity. They all show about 150 fps difference with the powder towards the front or rear of the case.
I wonder if 1200 fps is an unreasonable goal with my 20" barrel.
CC Griff
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The biggest thing I like about the Trail Boss in my 44wcf and 45 colt cases. It fills the case. I don't get those huge spreads in velocity and a double charge would be obvious.
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Howdy
Yes the Trail Boss does a GREAT job , but I didn't get the velocities I wanted ? But maybe I should try it again ? I think I will load a few tonight and try them tomorrow . Will post the results .
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Hey Rowdy,
it sure would be a spectacle if you posted a video of .44WCF smokeless being shot from the USFA and Uberti Winchester.
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Howdy
Yes the Trail Boss does a GREAT job , but I didn't get the velocities I wanted ? But maybe I should try it again ? I think I will load a few tonight and try them tomorrow . Will post the results .
The Trail Boss loads I get lower velocity than some others but for CAS I dont want them any faster, I've never loaded a max load of Trail Boss to see what is even possible.
If I was going to hunt with my 44WCF I would try some Titegroup because I remember experiencing good accuracy with more velocity. If I remember right I was getting somewhere close to 1200 fps in a 20 inch barrel with the suggested starting loads of Titegroup when I tried it. I remember being surprised at the velocity with it but felt like it was more than I needed for Cowboy action.
I was trying other things because I first had a lot of trouble getting Trail Boss to work in my Dillion without spillage and uneven charges. I since figured out to use the large charge bar since the Trail Boss is so bulky. With the large charge bar it works flawless.
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Based on PET LOADS by Ken Waters, I have loaded 9.0 grains of Unique in an original 1873 rifle (relined) Now I use 5.0 grains of Titegroup or 6.2 grains of Herco foe regular competition. If I wanted a smokeless hunting load I would use the 9.0 Gr. Unique.
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Sir Charles
You have shot 9.0 grains of Unique in your original . Have you fired many rounds ? I'm curios about the pressure and I'm sure you can understand my concerns . What year is your original ? Thanks for your input .
As for a Video using 44wcf in the USFA and my 1873 Uberti Why not , now to figure out when . We will be at Deer Camp in another week ( I can't wait either ) hope the weather will cooperate . Any suggestions . ;D ;D ;D
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Sir Charles
You have shot 9.0 grains of Unique in your original . Have you fired many rounds ? I'm curios about the pressure and I'm sure you can understand my concerns . What year is your original ? Thanks for your input .
As for a Video using 44wcf in the USFA and my 1873 Uberti Why not , now to figure out when . We will be at Deer Camp in another week ( I can't wait either ) hope the weather will cooperate . Any suggestions . ;D ;D ;D
Yes I did shoot 9.0 gr of UNIQUE. I don't anymore as I finaly ran out of it. Someone gave me a lifetime supply of HERCO which is just a bit slower than Unique and I haven't hunted with this caliber so I just thought I'd use either BP or slower smokeless loads for range "work". I am not at home but it is 19th century full octagon rifle (shortened to 20 " by the original owner, whose son sold it to me), but relined. Again, I am not in my librarry, but I recall that Ken Waters used a bit more for the '73, but 9.0 tops for revolvers.
My Chrony says that 9.0 matches BP velocities. I'm not sure about pressures, as Waters did not publish that bit of information.
Would I recommend 9.0 grains. All I can say is that I got the data from an older but reliable source, and it worked for me. beyond that, I guess you are on your own.
P.S; jUST SAW A RECENT POST BY 44WCF. on the 1873 board. Apparently the MAXIMUM LOAD SANCTIONED BY THE POWDER MAKER IS 8.6 GRAINS OF UNIQUE.
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Sir Charles
The 8.6 grains of Unique worked real good on a Coyote . He was at about 55 yards and the 44wcf put him down .
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Howdy
Has anyone played with any new loads for there 1873 rifles lately . I have ready several post by 44wcf and he has worked with RL 7 and has good results . What's in your bullets ???
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Rowdy, My cowboy load out of my Marlin Cent. 44-40 shoot very well out to 150 yards. It is 4.9 grains of Clays that's a .427 bullet. I know the cowboys that Marlin made later were .429. Don't know how this would be for hunting. I did thake a deer with that rifle, but it was a jacket Remington load. The deer did not know the difference between it and a .30/06. When I shoot black powder I use my Yellowboy in 44/40. Don't think you can beat 44/40 if you are shooting black. The Marlin Cent. came out in 1994 it was the first gun I bought when I got into cowboy action shooting. I learned to reload 44/40's for this rifle. Then I got 44/40 revolvers. Sure do like the 44/40 round in black or smokeless. Tj
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Howdy
I had to dig up this old post . I had almost forgot about it . And yes I am bored and always looking for the best load I can find .
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Howdy
I am hunting for reloader 7 powder . I hope to find a pound and try a few rounds .
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Howdy
I found a pound of reloader 7 and I have Hornady xtp 200 grain bullets . I plan on using these as John talked about . There is published data from Alliant , will use that data .
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Howdy
I found a pound of reloader 7 and I have Hornady xtp 200 grain bullets . I plan on using these as John talked about . There is published data from Alliant , will use that data .
There is only one published load for the 44-40 using Reloder 7. This load has been published by Lee, Alliant and Hercules. This load is only for a 240gr lead bullet.
John wrote up some pretty good posts about Reloder 7
https://sites.google.com/search/44winchester?query=reloder%207&scope=site&showTabs=false
https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40/contributors/john-kort
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Bryan
That is the data that I am using . I had a chance to load a few rounds and test fire they worked . they shot a tight group with the hornady xtp 200 grain bullets . When the weather gets better plan on shooting over a chronie .
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Rowdy,
Sweet loads ay?
I really like them and used the 240gr load (just a tad extra powder) for my 2017 buck. I just started hunting again this past 2021 season but all I saw was a spike and let him go. My load for the 73" is my 220gr 43-214A Reloder 7 load.
Here are some Reloder 7 loads I use.
The first is the load I shot the 2017 buck with using my Marlin 1894CB
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Bryan
I am waiting for warmer weather so I can enjoy shooting . I want to have a smokeless load to add to my 44 wcf loads in the past I have used Unique and it worked but I was wanting a powder that filled the case and was low pressure .
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Bryan
I am waiting for warmer weather so I can enjoy shooting . I want to have a smokeless load to add to my 44 wcf loads in the past I have used Unique and it worked but I was wanting a powder that filled the case and was low pressure .
The only smokeless powder that fills the case and has the lowest pressure is Reloder 7. However, those pressures push the normal limits. I think H4198 comes in second, also pushing normal pressure limits. All depending actually bullets used and the seating depth of those bullets.
Here are the Reloder 7 tests I made. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cZyKKXVyHq9as9uFJiko5yReJ9a-ER32YsENTgJGJs4/edit#gid=819756635
Noted in the notes section shows if it is a case capacity load, meaning the bullet sits on top of the powder but not necessarily firmly.
Here are the few H4198 loads I tested of which none are noted as a case capacity loads. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cZyKKXVyHq9as9uFJiko5yReJ9a-ER32YsENTgJGJs4/edit#gid=1350502736
There could be more out there somewhere but I just never tested everything I wanted to test and some powders I wanted to test have been discontinued.. Since Reloder 7 gives me both normal 1,350fps velocities at normal pressures as well as a tad hot loads at 1,400fps to 1,500fps for stronger action rifles with decent results, I decided to stay with it, especially since it is the most accurate loads for my firearms.
IMR-4227 gives me decent results as a High Velocity load powder so that is my second choice.
Unique is my second choice for normal loads and third choice as an over-all powder for the 44-40.