Shooting Vintage Spencer

[Colt Fanning]

Hello,
At the suggestion of the moderator I will recount my not entirely succesful efforts to convert a vintage model 1865 into a good shooter.  The gun is a model 1865 in 56-50 caliber with a somewhat pitted barrel. 
The bore Dia is .505 and the Grove Dia is .514.  I obtained a Taylor Center fire breach block which fitted the gun perfectly.  I then cut apart a vintage 56-50 cartridge and found that it contained 36 grains of powder and an approximately 375 grain bullet with two lubrication groves.  In front of the groves the bullet dia was .495.  Between the groves .516 and the base of the bullet was .525!  I obtained 50-70 brass  and followed the instructions  in the article "Spencers Repeaters"  by turning the rims down to .635, triming the length to 1.15 and reaming with a 33/64 reamer.  I loaded with a .512 bullet from Buffalo arms.  Due to the space taken up by the solid head of the centerfire case the case would now hold only 29 grains of ffg.  The bullet cannot be seated further out in the case to gain more capacity because the gun has only about 1/16 in. free space.  The rifle shot poorly with some shots being 5 Ft. off at 100 yards.  After shooting I noticed that
the case was tapered over the area where the bullet seated causing poor axial alignment of the bullet in the case when reloading.  Apparently the chamber expects the tapered bullet.  I obtained a Lyman 515141 three grove mold and faced off the back of the mold to eliminate the third grove resulting in an approx. 375 grain bullet.  I bored the mold out to .530 and made the tapered bullets by forcing the bullets lubericated with SPG into a tapered sizing die.  I cast with wheel weight lead.  The gun shot much better  but 20 shots at an 12x18 in. paper target at 50 Yds. will result in 18 through the paper with 2 just outside the paper.  Bullet drop is substantial with the gun shooting about 6 in high at 50 Yds and 10 in low at 100 yds.  Are there any suggestions to improve this gun.  I am considering rebarreling. 

[Harve Curry]

First off let me say I wouldn't rebarrel an original Spencer. I might be convinced to reline/restore the rifling. There is a quality of relining that I've read about refered to as rifling restoration. It cost more then relining, and I've considered that for a 1876 Win, but I don't know the cost and details of it.

Your measurements: The bore Dia is .505 and the Grove Dia is .514. So your bullet should be .514-.515".
For comparison my 1865 Spencer is groove dia. of .520" and I use a Rapine mold 520350 that drops out of the mold at .520" and 350gr. I lube it with SPG or 50/50 NRA formula.Works fine.

I can't see how rough your bore is, but as your loads show the bullet has to fit the rifling and you saw a good improvement. I think if you could get the bullet weight down and the velocity up to 1000-1050fps that might improve things.

 .

[alex]

Harve,
your groups using smokeless are fine, however what kind of groups do you get with BP. If Smokeless was the only power we could get I would quite shooting and go to playing pool or something. If it ain't Black what the  fun in it.

Mike

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[Harve Curry]

Howdy Mike,
My old Spencer's rifling is sooo smooooth it shines like a mirror
  I need blanks for reenactments and living history I shoot Black because there's nothing else like it.