Tracing Spencer Serial Numbers

[Spencer McCarty]

Howdy to all,   Does anybody have a way of tracing serial numbers for 1865 Burnside Spencers?
Like what cavalry unit or troop?  Thanks for any info,  Spencer McCarty

[Two Flints]

Hi Spencer,

Maybe it would help to indicate a specific serial number you're looking for.  One of the SSS  members may have the resources to look for you if you could narrow down the search by indicating the serial number.  Just a suggestion.   

Two Flints

[Spencer McCarty]

Two Flints,  its a Burnside Model 1865 serial number 218XX.  I am trying to find out a little history on the gun if at all possible. The stock has three sets of initials on it all ending in the same letter so I am thinking it has possibly been in the same family.  Thanks Spencer McCarty

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[hendrick]

you might give this a try. They do have some information.   http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm 

[Spencer McCarty]

Hendrick,  Thanks for the website, it has a lot of good info on it.  Spencer McCarty

[Rattler]

http://armscollectors.com/srs/lookup_spencer.php

Check this.Remember a Spencer identified to a CW unit is generally considered a $1000 premium.

[Major 2]

That is very good information

I ran my guns S# and though the exact S# did not come up a one S# just 7 guns higher did .

It stated: CO D 5TH NY VOL CAV. which is concourant with what I had.

The Compendium of the War of Rebellion states : The 5th. saw much service including Gettysburg and Appomattox.

I have a letter accompanying the Gun when it was purchased saying it was with the 5th. NY @ Gettysburg.
I also have a note from Marcote stateing the gun is in the range of purchase of the 5th. NY Regiment

[Wagon Wheel]

Odd question but why do people "X" out the last couple of digits when stationg a serial number?  Always made me scratch my head...

WW

[Major 2]

I think it is like your Social Security Number, or blocking out your Lic. Plate in Photo's .
Best not to advertise the numbers, lest unscrupulous persons get a hold of it.

That's why I , XXX my Serial numbers... anyway 

[Arizona Trooper]

I hate to rain on your parade, but the first Burnside contract deliveries were made in March of 1865. A 21K numbered Burnside would have been made after the war was over. The 5th NY stayed in the army until mid-July of ’65. At the time, there was a lot of consternation about France’s doin’s in Mexico, so the better units were held in preparation for invasion from south of the border. The 5th could have been rearmed just before they got mustered out, in anticipation of service in Texas. This would be about the only circumstance that would explain a Burnside contract Spencer in that unit, especially one with such a high number.

Also, keep in mind that serial numbers in your range overlap between three models. Spencer restarted with #1 on the M-1865s, and Burnside also started with #1. Carbines between #1 and ~11K could be Burnside or Spencer made 1865s. Numbers between ~11K and 25K could be M-1860 Spencer made carbines or M 1865 carbines from either contractor. So, with a hit at SRS from 1865, there is only a 33% chance that it’s your gun. If it’s a pre-1865 hit, the gun recorded has to be a Model 1860 56-56 carbine or rifle.

One caveat. It appears that the first 2500 or so M-1865s made by Spencer were rifles, probably for the State of Mass. I haven’t found the records, but virtually every M-1865 rifle I have seen is numbered below 3000, most with inspection stamps.

[Major 2]

Still sunny here 

Not only is not a Burnside contract, it has no provision for the Stabler cut off , has 20 inch barrel  ...typo
( gun has a 22 inch barrel) woops 
and does not have Burnside contract 3 groove rifling.

it is marked Spencer Repeating Rifle Co. not Burnside.

It falls in the range of Co. D 5th. NY purchases

as you stated "Numbers between ~11K and 25K could be M-1860 Spencer made carbines "
this one is 
Thanks though.

[Harve Curry]

My Spencer carbine is ser. no. 214XX.  Barrel is 20" , marked M 1865 , and is a 56-50. I've owned it for better then 15 years. It has lots of arsenal type repairs in the forearm and some lesser quality repairs in the stock.
Somewhere I read that this serial number was priduced in 1864, but I cannot find that information now.

Were'nt some of the M 1860, cal. 56-56 Spencers rebarreled to the M 1865 ??

serial no. 21430 - 65C - 072669 - CO E 3RD CAV
So I take it mine most likely was with the same ??

The only book I have on Spencer's is "Carbines of the Civil War" by John D. McAulay., and Cartridges of the World.

[Arizona Trooper]

Major, this is odd. M-1860 carbines have 22” barrels, measured from the face of the breechblock, M-1865s are 20”. What caliber is your carbine? Is the barrel bobbed back?

The first deliveries of Spencer made 1865s were also in March of ’65. The first M-1860 carbines were delivered in October of ’63, too late for Gettysburg. Rifles started in Dec. of ’62. Only rifles were at Gettysburg and only in the 5th and 6th Michigan Cavalry, which just a couple weeks before had been assigned to Custer’s Brigade from the Washington defenses. They missed Brandy Station and the Aldie/Middleburg/Upperville push, but were at Hanover, Pa., and a couple days later were engaged at the east cavalry battlefield of Gettysburg.

The 5th New York Cav. was also in the AoP cavalry brigade, but under Judson Kilpatrick (aka Kill-Cavalry) rather than Custer. They were at Hanover but were not in the big cavalry battle east of Gettysburg. They did participate in the ill-advised charge south of Big Round Top against Rielly’s N.C. and Bachman’s S.C. Atty. That's the one that got Elon Farnsworth killed.

The 5th didn’t get Spencers (rifles or carbines) until well after Gettysburg. These were issued by Uncle Sam, so were not unit purchases. I'll have to do some researc to see what the 5th was armed with before Spencers, but most of th AoP Cavalry had Sharps, Smiths and Burnsides.

[Major 2]

Major, this is odd. M-1860 carbines have 22” barrels, measured from the face of the breechblock, M-1865s are 20”. What caliber is your carbine? Is the barrel bobbed back?

DUHHHHHHHHHHH! ...typo it is 22"  old timer disease 

I believe they had Sharps at Gettysburg.

I also pulled out the letter & and your right (dang it ) I hate it when your right !
It states it was with the 5th.,  but nothing about Gettysburg. I musta just put it in my mind knowing the 5th was there.
"The first M-1860 carbines were delivered in October of ’63" that I did not know !

You gotta understand, I bought the gun in 1980 , I haven't looked at the letter in years... just sorta mixed up my memory.
When Marcote was writing the book, he had ad in Gun's and Ammo (I think it was) asking for Serial # of surviving guns... In return he wrote back with a History.

[Arizona Trooper]

Major,
  Sounds like a great Spencer! SRS records on the 5th appear to be Co. D returns dated 4/22/64. That date was during the pause just before Grant opened his ’64 Richmond Campaign. Spencers could have been issued then, or simply inventoried for the report to HQ on Cavalry Corps readiness for the field.

  There’s a lot of action that your carbine could have seen, including the Wilderness to Richmond push, the North Shenandoah Valley campaign, including Toms Brook and Cedar Creek and finally the fall of Richmond on to Appomattox.

  The 5th NY was a crack unit.