Updated Battle Rifle Standards

[Drydock]

Though I've pretty much settled on this, tweaking is ongoing, and all suggestions are welcome.  I would like to point out that this is NOT a class in and of itself, but a set of standards for the use of these type weapons in a GAF match, outside of the usual Cowboy style classes.  This may be broken up by action or powder type at the descretion of the Match director.  Or it could be run as a single class if numbers so warrent.

-Milspec weapons of the late Victorian era, 1865-1901

-RIfles will be MAIN BATTLE RIFLES and CARBINES, utilizing CAS spec ammunition.  Lead bullets of weight no more than 405 grains, velocity less than 1400 FPS.  Examples would be, but not limited to: Krags, Spencers, Trapdoors, Sniders, Enfields, early Mausers. Handguns would be milspec, or of demonstrated military use, related in period to the rifle used.  The rifle is the determing factor here.

-NOTE-  Handguns are related IN PERIOD to the rifle used.  It is understood that some handgun/rifle combonations may be difficult to impossible to achieve.  Reasonable substitutions are allowed.  Officers of the period often purchased their own sidearms.  (Notice I say "Handguns"?  Thats right.  Broomhandle fanatics be warned: NO stripper clips.  You ain't outrunnin' anybody. For you DA revolver types, no loading aids of any type.)

-Lever action pistol caliber rifles are specificly excluded. Lever action rifles with tubular underbarrel magazines are not allowed.  Rifles/carbines must be in a military configuration, military caliber.  Example:  the 1895 Winchester is allowed, if in military configuration, chambered in .30 US (.30-40 Krag)

(reasonable caliber subsitiution may be allowed on a case by case basis.)

-Dress must Attempt to be military, matching the weapon used.  Don't show up dressed for the Rough Riders carrying a Mauser.  Full or partial uniforms are fine, Scouts, field expediencey, and irregulars are recognized. (caveat:  you want to be an irregular, you better have some provenance that shows you to be a fair representation.)  Ladies may adhere to the above, or perhaps better to dress appropriate to the period, with some military "accessories".  Perhaps a Kepi, corded Slouch, or officers sash.  For ladies wishing to really go all out, I would suggest watching John Fords "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon".

-Era single shots, ie trapdoors, Martini Henrys, Rolling blocks, are encouraged, loaded to spec, probably only required to engage half the rifle targets of the repeaters.  This will be worked out/adjusted as needed, as per NASCAR.

-As a technical limitation, No stripper clips allowed.  All repeating weapons(rifles AND handguns) will start with no more than 5 rounds.  Reloads have no limit.  All reloads will be of loose ammo, from appropriate belts/pouchs/pockets, no aids of any kind. 

-Modifications allowed: None.  Springs may be replaced/lightened, existing parts polished to improve trigger pull, thats it.  Parts may be replaced only to repair/return to Milspec.

-Don't come to me about the Turks using 1866s at Plevna.  Know it, don't care, plenty other venues for those.  This is for Main Battle rifles.  Henrys and 66s were the submachine guns of their era.

This is still in its formative stage.  I have shot the 2006 Muster using an M1898 Krag Carbine, and an M1873 Trapdoor carbine.  If interested, Please e-mail or PM me with any suggestions.  Or leave them right here.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Good Day to you, Sgt. Drydock!  And thanks for your hard work on this (and other) project(s).

This sounds very interesting.  However, I'm not sure that many people will qualify.  For instance, I wonder how many members have uniforms which match their weapons - and sidearms, too - 'tho you DID address that point to some degree by stating that the rifle was the real determining factor.  However, it does seem a bit restrictive.  Also, you use the term Milspec in reference to ammo belts, etc.  Are you meaning Milspec in general, or specific to the particular branch that the shooter is portraying?  Using myself as an example, I have an 1888 Commission Rifle ([sorta] Mauser) and am planning on acquiring some Meister .323 lead projectiles so I can load a (non-authentic) BP round that meets the requirements of GAF shooting.  I take it that I would also need an 1880-1890  era uniform and belt, ammo pouch(es) without my authentic original stripper clips, and other things related to compete.  Right?  As interesting as that sounds, it prices me right out of the shoot.  And I'm SURE I'm not alone.  Getting an American rifle and suitable uniform (beyond what I already have) is not an option. 

Now I realize that this would probably be presented as a sort of sub-class/side match sort of thing, rather than the overall rule.  (if I understand correctly) 

Perhaps you are TRYING to be restrictive and I applaud your attempt at authenticity.  I just see it as a bit restrictive and it will lead to only a few who could participate.  Don't get me wrong, restrictive doesn't bother me - I don't think the NFL, for instance, is being too restrictive by not allowing ME to play ball.  I don't have the talent. 

Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts.  Again - I think that this actually sounds pretty interesting, but I, like MANY others, will simply have to watch.

Jeff  "Steel Horse Bailey"     proud GAF member # 98

[Drydock]

It is for main match classes, not the whole event.  Still plenty of CAS style classes for you to shoot.

Note: Dress must ATTEMPT to be military, full or partial uniforms accetpted, field expdeincy, scouts, irregulars.  Thats as wide a hole as I could make it. 

I don't believe your 88 uses clips, unless it was backfitted for them.

Why BP?  Isn't the 1888 a smokeless round?

Cheaper than Dirt has all the belts and pouchs you need for, well, cheaper than dirt. 


This is meant to be somewhat restrictive.  You need to be a bit more historical than the average CAS shooter to do this.

[Advertising]

[Books OToole]

Like most endeavors, you have to walk before you can run.

or

You don't start out as a Master Gunner.

I have found in nearly thirty years of Living History at numerous historic sites and with several organizations, it is far easier to start out with strict authenticity rules and relax them later, than the other way around.

Dry Dock; Good luck in your endeavor.  If I may be of assistance, let me know.

Michael "Books" Tatham
Capt. 5th Kansas Battery
Acting Artillery Commander, Dept. of Missouri

[Guage Rod]

Say Dry Dock, is a Sharps, 1873 considered a battle rifle, it will shoot the same ammo as a trap door, 405 gr bullet over 60-70 grains of BP, I know there were sharps riffles in the CW?  I can remove the tang sights and shoot the closer targets with it.  I know that this was probably more of scout or buff runner's weapon!   

[Drydock]

GR, it needs to be in a Military configuration.  As a scout, you may well have been issued a Sharps Carbine, with a 22" round barrel retained by a band.   Infantry rifles were also issued, with 30" round barrels and long forarms retained by barrel bands.  If you have a standard Sharps octogon barreled buffalo rifle, it cannot be used here.  Sorry if thats the case.

SHB, please take another look at the requirements.  I don't think they're as strict as you seem to think.  With the exception of the rifle itself, that there can be no compromises on I'm afraid.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Yep, I'm clearer now.  I was reading too much into it.  I certainly understand the authenticity aspect - I preach NCOWS and am working on my "Originals" portrayal, which has MUCHO higher standards than even the normal NCOWS preferences. 

Books, yer right about starting out strict, but that can easily put a SERIOUS financial drain on many of us who have NOT had the experience you've found.  The whole Living History thing, be it Old West, Military, or anything like that, is a new and wonderful thing to me - and I wish I'd have known about it 35 years ago! 

Again - I say this Battle Rifle concept is very interesting. 

SHB

[Lou Graham]

Drydock, what about a dress code for the ladies?  Should I be thinkin' on dressing like a lady that's dressed like a feller?

I'm seriously considering my Trapdoor Cadet if I can figure out what needs to go with it.

[Drydock]

An intrigueing question, and one i've glad you've brought up.  Lou, for the Ladies, I would say anything goes as long as it has a touch of something military in period with the weapon used.  Or disguise yourself as a cadet!

While you could indeed put on a uniform, I think it more realistic, and perhaps more fun, to simply be a soldiers wife,  sporting her husbands Kepi or slouch. Perhaps an officers sash.  For a more elaborate appearance, think Joanne Dru, in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon."  Personaly, I think you could pass for the Generals daughter . . .

"Windage and elevation, Mrs. Graham.  Windage and elevation . . ."

[Frenchie]

Behind the door her father keeps a shotgun,
He keeps it in the winter and in the month of May,
And if you ask him why the heck he keeps it,
He keeps it for a sailor who is far, far away!
Far away, far away!
Yes, he keeps it for a sailor who is far, far away!

 

[Drydock]

I resemble that remark!     Well I used ta ennyways . . .

[Drydock]

BTT, for further review and comment.

[Pitspitr]

Hi Sgt.
I'm a bit behind  as I've been preocupied else where for a few months so I'm just getting caught up.
If a lady were to disguise herself as a cadet wouldn't that require a cadet rifle?

 :-[OOPS I just re-read Lou's question and realize that's what she was intending anyway.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Ok,

Here we go, Sgt. Drydock.

I am moving to the mid-west in JUne , and will be planning on joining GAF.

Uniform and accourterments are simple for me.  As I am a CW re-enactor (a member of Co. A, 2nd Mass Vol. Cavalry California 100) I have both CW Cavalry and fatigue wear, dog tent, mess, etc.

Rifles, no problem:  Henry Military model and Spencer 56-50 Carbine.

I also have a Remington New Model Army .44 (aka: 1858)

Here's the question:

What about the new Uberti New Model Army (aka: 1858) factory Gated Conversion in 45 Colt/Schofield?

Remington paid S&W $1 each to convert US issued New Model Army .44s  to .46 rim-fire in 1867/1868. The number converted and re-issued is around 1500, if I remember right from Mc Dowells book.  They actually preceeded the S&W No. 3s in .44 American and 1860 Richards conversions as issue Army metallic cartridge revolvers. I handled an original with cartouches.

The new Uberti cartridge conversion entry with .45 Schofield is as close to an original cartridge conversion in .46 French rim-fire as you will get.  There is more to support it than say a Remington No 3 Army (aka: 1875).

[Drydock]

As is said, handguns must be reasonable to the period and to the longarm.  Your Remington fits all these requirements.

THe Henry is a pistol caliber lever action rifle with an underbarrel magazine.  Like the 1866s at Plevna, it is more anologous to a submachine gun than a Main Battle Rifle or Carbine, such as your .56-50 Spencer.  In addition it sees extensive use as a CAS style rifle, thus is not allowed in a Battle Rifle style class.

THis does not mean that the Henry could not be used at a GAF match, simply that it is not a Main Battle Rifle or Carbine, thus would not be scored as such.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Ah Ha!  I understand!

[Frenchie]

This does not mean that the Henry could not be used at a GAF match, simply that it is not a Main Battle Rifle or Carbine, thus would not be scored as such.

I understand the reasoning behind this, I just think it would be nice to bring a military Henry and shoot it as a Battle Rifle. Well, life is all choices and compromises. I hope to get a Smith carbine and a Spencer rifle this year, so both long arms will be BRs even if I shoot as a civilian.

[Pitspitr]

I understand the reasoning behind this, I just think it would be nice to bring a military Henry and shoot it as a Battle Rifle. Well, life is all choices and compromises. I hope to get a Smith carbine and a Spencer rifle this year, so both long arms will be BRs even if I shoot as a civilian.

Plenty of us use the Henry and the Spencer in main matches as it is so why would you want to use it in a special category?

[Frenchie]

Pit, that's why I don't argue about not including the Henry in Battle Rifle. I'm just saying it would be nice because military Henry rifles were used in warfare. I'm not getting wrapped around the axle about it.

[Drydock]

The Henry is not a Primary Battle rifle or Carbine. It is a secondary issue weapon of limited military use.

Put another way:  If your rifle can be used competitivly as a SASS Main Match Rifle, then you cannot use it in Battle Rifle.